mattronic

All topped off this morning following the above procedure. A good check is that the same quantity of fluid drained out should go back in, and that has been the case (more or less). Reverse is now engaging smoothly, but still slips. Thanks everyone for your help and input. I'll be saving up to pass this on to the experts, a manual conversion appeals, but seems like too much of a job for me to get into...

Specific temp is between 30-35 degrees celsius to start the checking process, 40 degrees to check the level, but allows up to 50 degrees before the expansion will affect the levels and the results will be too low. The overflowing I had at the beginning would be explained by the higher temperature when I started. I had noted the temperatures while doing my research, but the guides I was following weren't so specific, so here is the specific guide for ZF 5HP24 transmission: http://www.thectsc.com/5hp24-transmission-fluid-level-procedures A. Transmissions fluid level checking. 1) The transmission fluid temperature must be between 30°C and 35°C before checking can begin. Use test equipment to determine the trans temperature. 2) The vehicle must be level with engine running at idle speed and air conditioning turned on. 3) Step on the brakes firmly, apply parking brake fully and shift to D and R, briefly pausing in each position before shifting back to the Park position. 4) With the engine running at idle speed and the selector in Park position, remove the filler plug. Monitor the transmission temperature, if a small stream of oil runs out at 40°C, the fluid level is correct. 5) If no oil runs out when the filler plug is removed, the fluid level is too low and oil needs to be added until it overflows. 6) With engine running, install the oil filler plug and tighten to proper torque. B. Adding fluid after repairs. 1) With the engine stopped and the transmission in Park position, remove the oil filler plug. Add transmission fluid until a small stream of oil runs out. 2) Insert the filler plug and tighten by hand. Start the engine. 3) With the engine running, remove the oil filler plug and add transmission fluid until a small stream of oil runs out. Insert the filler plug and tighten by hand. 4) Follow the “Transmission fluid level checking” procedure described in section A. above. C. Notes on fluid level and adding procedure. 1) Use only ZF-LifeguardFluid5 or OEM approved transmission fluid. 2) If the transmission temperature rises above 50°C during the fluid level checking procedure the resulting oil level will be to low. Let the transmission cool down and repeat the fluid level procedure. 3) Have transmission fluid and a suitable oil pump available before starting the fluid level procedure. The transmission fluid temperature will rise quickly during the checking procedure.

Sounds like you have "pulsing!" at regular intervals, mine is just a single "pulse" like a misfire (no noise either), but its gone now I am happy to say.

Now this is all a bit approximate working with the levels shown on the drain pan, and the new fluid bottle, but the hot fluid that drained out was around 4.5 litres, the same fluid now in the new fluid container measures about 4.2 litres. That difference isn't going to account for the 1.3 litre difference so I think it is more likely that running it would take up the extra fluid - I have just read something suggesting up to 1.5 litres difference so that would account for it. My mistake... Also to note, it was overflowing when I first opened the fill port with the car running. Refilling with cold fluid and filling to overflowing would suggest that after warming it up again it would be overflowing even more. I'll get it off the ground again and top it off warm ASAP. I guess it is interesting it does't seem to have made any difference other than loosing the shudder.

Thanks for the clarification Andrew. The transmission specialist thought I would be wasting my money with the change or flush, so I don't think I am going to win even if I adjust the levels at this point. I thought I would just take it in after the fluid change didn't help the slipping so wasn't too concerned about getting the level perfect. As I am thinking I might wait a while, I will re-check the level.

I've read a lot of information, seen a few vids, and believe I've followed the procedure. A hoist would make it easy, but I had the car level, so think everything went as expected. You are giving me the impression you think that changing the fluid and getting it right might sort this out?

Checking the fluid in the beginning, with the car running, the level must have been well over the fill port as quite a lot started to drain out. (blocking it up again while upside-down under the car didn't happen quick enough). I have refilled to overflowing again, although it did occur to me that re-checking after a drive might be a good idea. I haven't done this as my method of elevating the car is not entirely easy... I also measured approx 4.5 litres drained, and only got 3 and a bit back in before overflowing, so perhaps you are on to something, but then the difference also explains why it seemed over filled at the beginning... It still shifts sweet in forward gears, so I think all is well, but I am a little concerned about the difference in quantities. I also didn't have an easy time deciding what fluid to use, that was part of what brought me to Bimmersport in the first place. I ended up using Penrite Full Synthetic as it was the only one I could find with the LT71141 spec. (Although I admit outside of the internet I didn't look further than Repco) What fluid did you use, and where did you get it? This factor is also of concern and part of why getting this sorted sooner rather than later might be a good idea. On another note, reverse still has a bit of a "clunk" and obvious delay in engaging - I am not sure that is entirely normal, but I am pretty sure nothing has changed. Could this slow engage point to something else rather than a worn clutch/brake pack?...Solenoid? Blockage? I still don't understand why it would be the relatively little used reverse that has the issues? (this is all based on my recently gained internet expertise, so please put me right)

So, I decided I at least needed to try a fluid change. (no new filter or gasket at this stage). The fluid didn't look too bad. Dirty light brown but not burnt. I almost left it there as the fluid looked OK, and it wasn't low either, but decided since I already had the fluid and it wasn't going to get any better or hopefully any worse with the change I would give it a try. It went well aside from the fluid transfer pump from Repco ending up with fluid on the wrong side of the seal and all over me... But reverse still slips!.. The shudder seems to have gone however and so has the annoying "pulse!" So the car feels better than ever, (I also sorted my misfire issue which was a coil) but I need to take it easy in reverse and can't back up a steep hill. It is good to know the pulse was related to the fluid. I might leave it for a while and save some money for the repair, but on the other hand, getting it repaired and new fluid and a filter sooner rather than later might be a better idea. Tangalife, is what I am describing as a "pulse" what you have also? Any other opinions on whether a further change (with filter this time), or a flush might make any difference?

Thanks Peter, yes, I have posted in another thread already, probably too much information for an introduction!... I think I have solved the miss fire, so just the slipping and glitch to sort out... for now...

Thanks Gaz, I took it in for a diagnosis at a nearby automatic transmission specialist, and while he entertained the idea that a flush might help, he thought a rebuild was in order - the damage is likely done. He took the time to explain how it all works and what is likely happening which improved my recently acquired understanding. He explained that as the quality of the fluid degrades in looses its ability to apply the pressure required to engage the clutch properly and therefore allows slipping and excessive wear on the plates which are quickly damaged and therefore need replacing. His price wasn't as bad as I thought it might be at between 2500-3000+GST, (or $280 for a flush and filter & gasket change), but far more than enough to ruin my day... As this hasn't been happening long, and is only in reverse when revving high, I am still considering trying a fluid change to see if it makes any difference. If it does I'll order the filter and gasket and do it properly, and repeat the change after a few more km, or perhaps get the specialist to do the the flush, but I have read conflicting information and most seem to suggest a fluid change is the appropriate procedure. If it makes it worse, then I have lost maybe $60 on fluid and some quality time under the car, but jumping in to 3K of repairs is going to hurt. From what I have read slipping is to do with the fluid, its just a matter of how much damage has been done already and whether or not it is too late.

So, it slips in reverse when cold but (mostly) without the shudder. I get the shudder when warm. I have read some information suggesting fluid level and quality could have something to do with it, so would a change be a sensible first step, or do you think I need to call the experts?

No, happens first thing in the morning too as far as I can recall, (the reverse slipping) I have been pretty gentle lately, so I can't say for sure, but will see what happens tomorrow morning if I give it a bit of gas... I haven't pulled any codes, but perhaps my reader doesn't pick up everything? Thanks for the reply... Do you think the two issues might be related? I expect a fluid change is a good idea anyway, or is a flush a better idea?

I am now wondering if I have a similar issue that I had thought related to a misfire. I have what I think feels like a misfire when cruising at a constant speed mostly at around 1500-2000 rpm, only it is regular, and possibly not as pronounced, and definitely not on every revolution - more like every 2 seconds there is a slight drop in power almost like lightly touching on the brake. This isn't noticeable or present when accelerating, and doesn't seem to be there all of the time. I don't have any noticeable noise, but is this what you mean by "pulsing"? I also have slipping in reverse with high revs, and wonder if this could also be related to the torque converter and perhaps fluid quality and levels?

Hi Bimmersport. I have probably been here several times before now, but looking for solutions for current issues, and with questions to ask, it was time to join up... I have owned my 2000 e39 540 Msport for almost 8 years now, so am well overdue joining you all here. She has been pretty good to me, but as you all know things keep coming up... Photos from when I bought the car attached, nothing has really changed except for the tyres, and wear and tear of 2 kids and minor battles in parking spots over the years. It was a bit of an impulse buy, I think if I had thought about it I never would have justified the V8 to myself!..and I would probably prefer a vanilla version now, but I do love driving it and the wheels aren't a bad touch... I have always had an interest, and done minor work on my cars, but it gets a little scarier as the car gets more expensive and complicated, so for a while I haven't done much more than replace a few sensors etc leaving most of the work to the professionals. (alternator, water pump, is about it). Lately however, now that the car isn't worth so much, and strangely I haven't had as much to spend on her, I have been getting a little more involved. A rough idle has lead to replacement of the valve cover gaskets, all intake gaskets including the intake manifold, (I was prepared to do the valley pan while I was in there, but my mysterious coolant evaporation didn't seem to be leaking any where there so I left it), and most related vacuum hoses, new spark plugs, CCV... I have also just replaced the radiator and (just out of interest) found I could do that without removing the fan having realised after starting I didn't have a big enough spanner to remove it. She is generally running well now, although I would still expect a little bit more of a smooth idle from a german V8 with 133K on the clock. I am aware that the vanos could do with an overhaul with the very distinct "diesel chatter" sound, so wonder if that has something to do with it... However, I have been trying to diagnose an occasional misfire on cylinders 2 & 3 (codes P1345 & P1347). This/these codes (along with the engine light) are caused under high acceleration on occasion. I had suspected a coil so bought a new one to replace the coil on the cylinder with the current code (cylinder 2 I think it was), only to find it move to the other cylinder (3), so after a bit more swapping coils around and getting repeats on the faults moving from one cylinder to the other over the last few months regardless of using the new or original coil, it doesn't seem to be related to the coil at all. Currently I have the original suspect coil on cylinder 4 but the code has stayed on cylinder 2. Next idea is to check the injectors. I did the fuel filter a few weeks back. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. But a bigger issue has arisen, and this is what brought me here. Lately when in reverse it seems to slip, or not engage fully if I rev too high. Generally I can still reverse fine, but too much power and I get a shudder, this I have noticed is worse if reversing up a hill. So I have been digging the internet for information on the transmission. I was planning to check the fluid level and change the fluid, but the question arose as to what fluid to use here in NZ, and whether I should be flushing it instead, and really is that the issue anyway?. From what I have read a change is recommended rather than a flush, and I get the impression I should drop the pan and do the filter as part of the process. This has most probably never been done (I have had the car since about 60K and I almost don't want to admit I haven't addressed the transmission fluid). Reading a recent thread here yesterday trying to answer those questions, I am now wondering if another issue I had thought related to the misfire is actually related to the transmission and more specifically the torque converter. I have what feels like a misfire when cruising at a constant speed I think mostly at around 1500-2000 rpm, only it is regular, and possibly not as pronounced, and definitely not on every revolution - more like every 2 seconds there is a slight drop in power almost like lightly touching on the brake. This isn't noticeable or present when accelerating, and doesn't seem to be there all of the time. Does any one have any ideas on this, and might this be related to the reversing issue? Is changing the fluid a good first step, or am I looking a bigger things here? For this issue I am happy to pay someone to diagnose/ investigate and even do the work if required so any professionals let me know what you think. Thanks in advance, I hope this hasn't been too much information!