Fuggin stupid turbo

[Ben 0]

Ive wanted to turbo my e36 since i bought it about 3 years ago....

So after about 3 years of procrastinating I finally bolted on my turbo kit and turned her over,

it started fine so I took it for a drive, it hauled arse until 4000rpm and then started cutting out

(kinda like rev limiter). I suspected that it was either lack of fuel or the timing was too far advanced so

I changed the injectors. Turned it over and one of the injector seals broke and the fuggin car caught on fire!!

Oh well, so I fixed the burnt bits and replaced the seals on the injectors and now its sucking in so much fuel it cant rev past idle.

Now, I was thinking because Ive changed to slightly larger injectors (270cc from 166cc) can I use a 320i ecu to back off the fuel in my 325i? Considering 320i and 325i use the same size injectors, would I be correct in assuming

that the 320i would use a lesser amount of fuel out of said injectors?

Im trying to keep this project as low cost as possible and seeing as I have an entire 320i parts car to pillage parts

off I can try different setups to find out what works.

Any info on this subject would be mint!

[PBOY23 0]

bmw turbo builds and low cost dont go together post up some pictures of your setup

good luck hope you find the help you need

[drifty325i 0]

YOU NEED A LINK or another type of aftermarket fuel computer to control the timing and fuel. Amongst other things your AFM will not recognise the boost your car is making therefore will not advance the timing properly. What boost are you running? Are you running standard compression? DO NOT USE THE CAR UNTILL YOU HAVE GOT THIS SORTED, OR YOU WILL HURT IT

[topcat 11]

Ive wanted to turbo my e36 since i bought it about 3 years ago....

So after about 3 years of procrastinating I finally bolted on my turbo kit and turned her over,

it started fine so I took it for a drive, it hauled arse until 4000rpm and then started cutting out

(kinda like rev limiter). I suspected that it was either lack of fuel or the timing was too far advanced so

I changed the injectors. Turned it over and one of the injector seals broke and the fuggin car caught on fire!!

Oh well, so I fixed the burnt bits and replaced the seals on the injectors and now its sucking in so much fuel it cant rev past idle.

Now, I was thinking because Ive changed to slightly larger injectors (270cc from 166cc) can I use a 320i ecu to back off the fuel in my 325i? Considering 320i and 325i use the same size injectors, would I be correct in assuming

that the 320i would use a lesser amount of fuel out of said injectors?

Im trying to keep this project as low cost as possible and seeing as I have an entire 320i parts car to pillage parts

off I can try different setups to find out what works.

Any info on this subject would be mint!

the only one word comes to mind;

awesome simply, awesome

Edited January 4, 2009 by BM Weapon aka topcat

[Ben 0]

From what I understand the timing needs to be retarded under boost not advanced

If the standard ecu cant be swapped/chipped/remapped or modified in someway

then Ill go for an aftermarket ecu but I think its worth while trying alternative ways first.

Its running 8psi on standard compression.

If I move the AFM to the turbo intake (like a normal turbo setup) would that make any difference?

[Mike 1]

standard timing will probably be ok at that sort of boost, the issue is the fuel tuning. Wont hurt to put some colder plugs in though. If the 320i and 325i have the same injectors they probably have the same computer and MAF. The MAF knows how much air is going in, (in stock form) regardless of engine size so can put the right amount of fuel in. I'm not so sure about the M50 but on older engines like the M20/M10 you can use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to inject more fuel, nowhere near perfect but can work with some experimentation.

Problem is by the time you're done mucking around you've often spent a similar amount to what a link would cost, and its just adequate. then you'll find 8psi is pretty boring and want to upgrade.

As riley said, get a Link and be done with it.

[*Glenn* 854]

From what I understand the timing needs to be retarded under boost not advanced

If the standard ecu cant be swapped/chipped/remapped or modified in someway

then Ill go for an aftermarket ecu but I think its worth while trying alternative ways first.

Its running 8psi on standard compression.

If I move the AFM to the turbo intake (like a normal turbo setup) would that make any difference?

I can now see one of your problems in the picture you posted in another thread. You are blowing through the air mass sensor (wrong) The turbulence set up by the reduction in pipe size before the sensor wont help either. It should be installed on the compressor intake of your turbo.

[Ben 0]

I dunno what the huck an MAF is but the "air mass sensor" is smaller on my 320i if that makes any difference.

I tried a rising rate fuel pressure reg with the standard injectors and that didnt do sqwat except cost me

money and look flash. The standard one says 3.5bar on it so I guess that means it works to 3.5 bar hence the reason i gave up using aftermarket one with the larger injectors.

Ill try moving the air mass sensor to the turbo intake and see if that works but while im at it, theres a sensor of some sort that plugs into the back of the standard air box. Should I move that to the inlet track somewhere?

I dunno what it is but its never caused me problems just flapping around before when all I had was a pod filter.

Thanks for all the help guys keep it coming

[E30-323ti 66]

The ECU is expecting the airflow to be within a specific range supplied from the MAF.

Whether it is a frequency or voltage etc...

The same flow through a smaller (cross sectional area) meter (ie your 320 MAF) will give a higher reading than the larger 325 MAF, thus the ECU will get a reading "out of range" at a lower flow.

If anything you want a larger meter from say a 540 (3.5" IIRC) to bring the readings down into the range the ECU expects.

The only thing to watch is that the low flow (ie off boost) readings aren't too low and off the bottom of the ECU's map (opposite problem to too much air flow out the top of the map).

The other sensor will be for IAT's (Intake Air Temperature), the ECU uses this to determine the density of the MAF being measured.

Can discuss more with you tomorrow if you like.

[Mike 1]

what was the ratio on your fuel pressure regulator? was your static pressure high enough also? 3.5bar is quite high for stock. Most people have reasonable luck with them, chances are you got the wrong one or it wasn't setup properly

[Boost Junky 1]

Get a link dude and be done with it. Do away with your air flow meter and also who ever tunes it will be able to setup your vehicle in the correct way i.e where everything hooks up and the correct parts to use like your Fuel Pressure Regulator etc..

[Ben 0]

Yea Im gonna go standalone now and because of that this project is gonna end

up alot more serious than i first anticipated lol

ie. change manifold, change i/c pipes, forged internals and possibly a larger turbo

My new manifolds gonna be an adaptor off the standard one with the collector at the

flange so I can have the benefit of twin entry. Its not the flashest setup but it

will be easier to make them equal length this way and it means I can have the

turbo top mounted aswell

[Boost Junky 1]

Yea Im gonna go standalone now and because of that this project is gonna end

up alot more serious than i first anticipated lol

ie. change manifold, change i/c pipes, forged internals and possibly a larger turbo

My new manifolds gonna be an adaptor off the standard one with the collector at the

flange so I can have the benefit of twin entry. Its not the flashest setup but it

will be easier to make them equal length this way and it means I can have the

turbo top mounted aswell

Good choice man. Im running a Link 3 should be mint, pricey but well worth it. With projects like these you kinda gotta be serious and serious with how much you spend also lol.

How much power are you aiming for? If your motor is still in descent shape I wouldnt bother with forged internals.. Your motor is the M50 right? The bottom ends in those are good for 450 - 550 hp providing you have a really well tuned ECU, decompress it with a thicker MLS head gasket and bigger injectors and sufficient fueling etc...

My manifolds not tuned length and it will be fine, tuned length is a very expensive way to go. So your manifold should be fine. Mines top mounted haha my bonnet wouldnt shut at one stage had to drop the turbo and wastegate a little bit to get it to fit.

Keep us updated on your progress man and some pics would be nice

Luke

[Ben 0]

Im hoping for around 250-300 kw atw once Ive got all the new gear on

Yeah I know these motors are pretty tough (its the reason I bought this car lol) its the pistons Im

worried about.

Considering its just ticked over 200k and the power figure im looking at,

the standard pistons might not be up to the task although I will be going for a thicker HG

to begin with until I can afford forged pistons.

All the fabrication work I do myself, so the price of manifolds, ic pipes and exhausts

isnt an issue really.

Ill get some pics up in couple weeks once Ive made a new manifold and done the ecu and stuff

What injectors are you using "Boost Junky"?

[CamB 48]

I'm keen to see pics

[Boost Junky 1]

Im hoping for around 250-300 kw atw once Ive got all the new gear on

Yeah I know these motors are pretty tough (its the reason I bought this car lol) its the pistons Im

worried about.

Considering its just ticked over 200k and the power figure im looking at,

the standard pistons might not be up to the task although I will be going for a thicker HG

to begin with until I can afford forged pistons.

All the fabrication work I do myself, so the price of manifolds, ic pipes and exhausts

isnt an issue really.

Ill get some pics up in couple weeks once Ive made a new manifold and done the ecu and stuff

What injectors are you using "Boost Junky"?

Yea they are pretty tough man. The whole bottom end.... pistons, crank, bearings block the works. Theres plenty of people in the states and europe running up around the 400 - 500hp mark on these motors with just a thicker hg, bigger injectors and fuel pump and descent ecu etc. But obviously if your motors tired that changes everything.

That would be cool man id like to see what ya got. Im probably going to get some 2JZ-GTE injectors as they are side fed as are the M50 ones. The redtop 2JZ ones are 550cc so should be plenty for what i need.

Cheers, Luke

[CamB 48]

they are side fed as are the M50 ones.

Are you sure about that (M50 being side feed?).

[Ben 0]

Yea man both of my M50s are top feed aye

I read somewhere that ford taurus injectors are direct replacement for M50s

they are only about 250cc though. Still bigger than the measily 166cc you get standard haha

Ill be replacing my current 265cc injectors with square plug 550s out of a series 4 rx7 when i get the ecu sorted.

Heres a rough guideline for anyone wanting to know how much power an injector can support

Injector flow rate/5 550cc / 5 = 110cc

Figure x cylinders 110cc x 6 = 660hp

[320guy 0]

Yeah, my M50 is top feed aswell.

[Boost Junky 1]

Woops I shoulda thought about that a lil more, my bad. Mine are also haha, the plugs are on the side.... wont be using 2JZ injectors then