1985 Mtech 1 coupe, M52B28 swap/birthday, lotsa questions!

[Jacko 2076]

Heya,

Been procrastinating about doing this swap for too long, been spening all the time and money on the other addiction (Rc planes). But its time to do the swap and give the old girl a birthday, before the factory 145000mile m20b23 goes bang.

Ive gone through and read what must be every guide/blog/thread online about the swap. But still have a few questions, maybe the aint been asked before, maybe im being dense

Its an 1985 Mtech 1 coupe, manual 2.3. Guessing it has the Getrag 260 box.

While its getting the swap im gonna do all the suspension bushes (got new shock and springs last year), change the gearbox output shaft seal, give the brakes some love with new rotors and good pads (green stuff the way to go?) Got a favourite fluid?

Im taking two weeks off work too live in my mates shop, so ideally I wanna get all the parts I can ready to rock and not be going "oh fudge Im missing a bit" half way through! Mates a decent fabricator and has done umpteen engine swaps, but no bmw ones, so Ill just swing spanners and drink beer while he does the serious work.

Anyway, prepare for some questions!

-

What M52B28 do I want?

Any year? is EWS an issue, is there some trick to getting around it?

Does it have to be manual or can an Auto ECU work?

-

So far the shopping list is

-M52B28

-E28 M5 mounts. Are the M5 mounts different to standard E28 mounts?

-Custom gearbox crossmemember, looks easy enough to make.

-Clutch kit. Any recommendations? Its a daily driver so I dont want anything stupid, but still "spirited" daily driver!

-Brake booster - Mk1 Golf GTI? Are there others that fit? I can imagine getting a Mk1 booster will be a PITA!

-E34 sump ( oil pickup from the M20? )

-Any OEM radiators that'll fit? or is a getting a chinese Ali core and custom the end tanks the go? Obviously wanna ditch the viscous fan and go electric. What thermostat doofas do I need?

-Any recommendations for the exhaust? Diameter and mufflers? Dont want it loud.

Apart from belts/idlers on the M52, is there anything else I should change before bolting it in to the bay?

Any part numbers for the above bits would be awesome, Itll make me sound cleverer when I go hunting for em

Cheers for the help.

[e30ftw 393]

The mk1 / mk2 golf brake boosters are easy to find, Go onto VASK and ask in their forums. Took me like a day..

You need the pickup and sump from an e34 m50, m20 one doesn't work.

I have a pair of brand new e34 m20 mounts which you use for m5x swaps, you can have them for $60.

OEM radiator works, You need a facelift one though. Or an e36 one will fit.

[*Glenn* 854]

To the OP.... give me a call or come and see me before you do anything

[BM WORLD 1258]

have most parts incl vw stuff

[Jacko 2076]

Cheers

To the OP.... give me a call or come and see me before you do anything

[Jacko 2076]

have most parts incl vw stuff

Pm'd

[hybrid 1039]

-M52B28

+ DME + EWS and matched key / transponder chip + and reader coil +Engine Loom OR have a chat to ray @ HellBM as he does alignments and has the gear to make a DME talk with other kit

-E28 M5 mounts. Are the M5 mounts different to standard E28 mounts?

yes, m5 ones have correct bolt offset and the best stiffness.

-Custom gearbox crossmemember, looks easy enough to make.

Modifed e30 manual one should be fine

-Clutch kit. Any recommendations? Its a daily driver so I dont want anything stupid, but still "spirited" daily driver!

Make your own up .. its a lot cheaper and you get what you want. What you want is a 6-7kg lightened single mass flywheel 2500 - 3000lb pressure plate spring rate+ carbon kevlar sprung clutch and balance the whole lot together. This combo works without gearbox chatter (or very little). Redline hotmix of MT-90 and 75W90 NS (mt-90 contains friction modifiers)

-Brake booster - Mk1 Golf GTI? Are there others that fit? I can imagine getting a Mk1 booster will be a PITA!

theyre not too rare .. got mine in a few days.. Do you actually need this for a m50? s50 conversions only need this as the plenium doesnt fit

-E34 sump ( oil pickup from the M20? )

yes (oil pick up from an e34)

-Any OEM radiators that'll fit? or is a getting a chinese Ali core and custom the end tanks the go? Obviously wanna ditch the viscous fan and go electric. What thermostat doofas do I need?

e36 OEM radiator will fit, dont bother with the chinese alloy ones. Custom alloy ones are 1000-1800, I got a Fluidyne one imported from the US landed for $1080 to my door from fortyone.co.nz

-Any recommendations for the exhaust? Diameter and mufflers? Dont want it loud.

a nice e36 one is fine if your going custom or you could modify a OEM one easy enough

Apart from belts/idlers on the M52, is there anything else I should change before bolting it in to the bay?

im not sure if your steering will be a problem or not with the factory exhaust manifold, was a PITA on the s50 but thats a different story. Pretty sure there is other things, cant think right now. Get a good welder or do yourself if you have the gear. Youll need welded and bolted drive shaft loops. If you mess with the steering rack dont cut and weld it as you have to go through a whole world of pain and extra certification lucky you can un-bolt and bolt some pretty cool solutions with BMWs. Your gear linkage clearnace may be an issue .. not sure again here with the m52 vs e30 but something to think about

Any part numbers for the above bits would be awesome, Itll make me sound cleverer when I go hunting for em

http://www.realoem.com is your friend

hmmm around wiring, Most of the info in the states is for the face lift e30 and not pre-fl. So there are some difference in the starter setup / ignition and relays. understanding e30 WDS is key also the m50/52 loom diagrams.

[hybrid 1039]

Further to all this,

Best place to get bushes for the best prices is http://www.akgmotorsport.com

oh and an 'auto' ecu will work fine.

[Jacko 2076]

Further to all this,

Best place to get bushes for the best prices is http://www.akgmotorsport.com

oh and an 'auto' ecu will work fine.

Sweet Cheers hybrid, handy to know hellbm has the gear.

All these acronyms are confusing.

Does anyone sell a suspension bush kit for an E30? The whole lot in one box

Edited July 23, 2010 by Jacko

[hybrid 1039]

AKG does .. set a side 15-20mins and go through their site and you can make one up fairly easy. If not just contact them via the site and they are more than helpful.

Around the EWS, you only need to align the DME to the EWS and key IF you don't have the original EWS and key that came with the DME. Otherwise EWS won't be a problem as it all worked in the donor car. you also need the reader coil from any e36 car.

Most of your time is going to be getting the wiring working. Also building new fusebox connections.

[Jacko 2076]

AKG does .. set a side 15-20mins and go through their site and you can make one up fairly easy. If not just contact them via the site and they are more than helpful.

Around the EWS, you only need to align the DME to the EWS and key IF you don't have the original EWS and key that came with the DME. Otherwise EWS won't be a problem as it all worked in the donor car. you also need the reader coil from any e36 car.

Most of your time is going to be getting the wiring working. Also building new fusebox connections.

Thanks for all the advice hybrid, much appreciated.

Can you recommend a place to go for the clutch? Im gonna use the M20 flywheel, skimmed to address the clearance problem.

Mate is a pretty shed hot at fabricating, and has all the gear, so the exhaust should be a non issue, it'll be tight around the steering linkage but nothing ridiculous. Found some good resources on pre f/lift E30 wiring too so with a bit of headscratching and a multimeter pretty sure we can get it running, as long as we can keep the smoke in the wires.

Gathering Ill need an E34 dipstick too, sounds like the M20 oil pump is the go.

Whats with the driveshaft hoops for the cert? Sounds ugly! aft of the bellhousing is is all staying stock.

That realoem.com is the business!

Edited July 23, 2010 by Jacko

[westy 614]

Autoclutch for all your clutch needs.

And Balancing specialists for your balancing.

[Jacko 2076]

Autoclutch for all your clutch needs.

And Balancing specialists for your balancing.

Thanks man, ill go hit em up.

I think "stage 2" will be some M325 sway bars and do the bushes on those, not much point replacing the bushes on the girly sway bars on mine at the moment, then find an LSD and 325 rear end. Then the respray... should be a fun car at the end and save it from the wreckers yard.

The Missus says WTF, buy a fecken Toyota

[e30ftw 393]

Thanks for all the advice hybrid, much appreciated.

Can you recommend a place to go for the clutch? Im gonna use the M20 flywheel, skimmed to address the clearance problem.

Mate is a pretty shed hot at fabricating, and has all the gear, so the exhaust should be a non issue, it'll be tight around the steering linkage but nothing ridiculous. Found some good resources on pre f/lift E30 wiring too so with a bit of headscratching and a multimeter pretty sure we can get it running, as long as we can keep the smoke in the wires.

Gathering Ill need an E34 dipstick too, sounds like the M20 oil pump is the go.

Whats with the driveshaft hoops for the cert? Sounds ugly! aft of the bellhousing is is all staying stock.

That realoem.com is the business!

You need an e34 m50 oil pickup, m20 one is shaft driven and completely different. Depends what your motor comes out of, but all you need is the pickup from a e34 m50 (front of engine instead of the rear like on e36's).

Top is th e34 sump and the oil pump with the pickup from an e34 that you need also. Bellow is the e36 type with the pickup extending to the rear and the sump at the rear. Bottom one does not work in the e30.

You will need to modify the exhaust manifolds, The back one you just cut a slit under the manifolds and bend them closer to the block as the linkage hits. The front one needs to be cut and extended as the flange hits the steering rack.

Edited July 23, 2010 by e30ftw

[Jacko 2076]

Thanks Man, Good photos.

Exhaust looks easy enough to tweak, Ive got a sneaking suspision we might make the headers from scratch, I had a looksee this morning, think I can use the exhaust thats on it the moment (looks like its been replaced in the past) and makes the right noises. Hopefully its not gonna choke the M52.

Thinking I might as well do the sway bars at the same time as doing all the bushes, seems a bit halfassed to do it well.. half assed

Ill start a thread in the projects page when she gets wheeled into the shop.

[Furai 0]

Nice one mate, you will have to take me for a drive when its done, This isnt gonna restrict your flying is it?

[pureboiracer 0]

imo i would get a set of custom headers made up, the factory set choke the motor quite abit more than you would think, i have driven an e30 with this motor with and without factory exh manifold, chalk and cheese.

[Jacko 2076]

imo i would get a set of custom headers made up, the factory set choke the motor quite abit more than you would think, i have driven an e30 with this motor with and without factory exh manifold, chalk and cheese.

Way ahead of ya, I agree the stock M50 manifold (even the M52 one) looks like crap flow wise, and cutting the manifold rewelding it on to even more of a funky angle cant be doing it any favours. Good to know it makes a healthy difference.

Got the legend fabricator working on replicating something like this -

If anyone else is keen for a set, lemme know and ill pass the word on and get back to ya.

[pureboiracer 0]

they look nice man, cost much? i am assuming you have test fitted?

[Jacko 2076]

they look nice man, cost much? i am assuming you have test fitted?

Cost, dunno yet

Thats an image I found of m50/52 equal length headers designed to fit around the E30 steering, something similar will be made with those as "inspiration"

Im going to a single exhaust, I dont see the real benefit of going twin pipes, and twin will cost a shedload more.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Jacko

[pureboiracer 0]

ive heard good and bad about single and twin but i guess it depends what your building the car for at the end of the day. would like to see some pics of finished product. could be interested in a set myself