Clutch Death

[gmccormack 0]

but there are other negatives which is why they are still not being widely used by anyone other than Mazda, and even then only in selected models.

Thats what my Dad told me when i asked him about them a while back.

He said the can't be too "sh*t hot" if only Mazda is using them.

Actually a number of companies have license agreements with NSU to produce rotary engines, but only Toyo Kogyo (MAZDA) hold the patents on parts they have developed to make the engine durable and reliable.

Other licencse holders that have failed to make a commercially viable rotary are;

Curtiss-Wright (aircraft)

Fichtel & Sachs (chainsaws)

Daimler Benz

M.A.N.

Alfa Romeo

Rolls-Royce

Porsche

Comotor

Johannes Graupner

Savkel

Nissan

Suzuki

General Motors

After spending millions on licences and R&D they would like to make them too but Mazda have things like the design of the apex and side seals under their exclusive control, thus preventing anyone else being able to make a reliable, durable rotary engine

[CaM 0]

w3rd

at motat in aucks they have one of the very few suzuki rotary motorcycles that are still left, i did a mission up on the stand and it doesnt seem to have any compression, but they were apparently made in conjunction with mazda....

mercedes benz made a production quad rotor back in the day, didn't last at all, but when it ran, it went quite well.... peugeout toyed with them also for a while, and in russia I think lada made a few wankel military vehicles....

Mazda will never give up the rotary, it's what brought them up into competition, and international status, previously they mad small three wheeled trucks.

Theres so many production models of mazda rotary vehicles as well, not just rx whatevers... theres REPU utes, Cosmos, roadpacers(rotary hz holdens ) blah blah blah....

[Carl 3]

Yes, there were a few airlines that made rotary engines, but it was more to the fact that they're lighter and if made correctly are alot more reliable than any piston engine and i'm assuming in theory that air cooled rotaries would be quite efficient when flying at altitude...

Edited March 21, 2005 by ///Carl

[*sic 1]

ok the mazda crap has gone on to long, one more post not in relation to gus and his clutch / flywheel and im bringing the noise.

[CaM 0]

goin for a "uprated" clutch at all?

[Carl 3]

goin for a "uprated" clutch at all?

How much do you want to spend. I'm investigating all this at the mo as i'm going to redo my g/box very shortly.

My plan of attack will be to shave off only a few pounds from the flywheel and to uprate the springs on the pressure plate. I already have a brand new clutch plate which i'm told is perfect as the stock clutch plate is very durable.

Would be nice if someone had a link to an E30 forum where people have experimented with different weighted flywheels...or let Gus experiment for us???

Edited March 22, 2005 by ///Carl

[Guest Andrew]

Yes, there were a few airlines that made rotary engines, but it was more to the fact that they're lighter and if made correctly are alot more reliable than any piston engine and i'm assuming in theory that air cooled rotaries would be quite efficient when flying at altitude...

when people talk about Rotary aircraft.. they meant rotary piston air craft with the piston arranged in a circle and the crank in the middle.

[Carl 3]

when people talk about Rotary aircraft.. they meant rotary piston air craft with the piston arranged in a circle and the crank in the middle.

Rolls-Royce and Mid-West have licenses to produce Wankel-rotary aircraft engines and interestingly hovercraft engines. The US Moller company produced rotary powered lightplanes and hoverplanes. Grant already stated the Curtis-Wright company.

Now get back on topic before Sic sticks it to ya!

[325GRANT 0]

SH1 just north of Mangaweka. Even I was keeping up with Grant's 325 up that hill so that's saying something

interesting ...

i remember me and a peugeot ... then dan ...

and somewhere back by levin was carl ...hmmm

anyway ill send the flywheel up to you tomorrow judge for yourself. i have to admit i did like it, just didnt know how much of a beating my engine would take.

[Carl 3]

You guys were ahead of me at the bottom and I wasn't much further than that at the top as I saw both of you blow out massive plumes of smoke as soon as you both let off the gas...I thought that wasn't half bad to keep up considering the speeds we were pushing up that hill.

Makes sense that you weren't pulling away from me like I thought you should've considering your flywheel and Dan's auto...

twould be a different story next time round though now that both of you have blown out the filth from your engines and you'll have sorted out your flywheel weights while Dan will have a manual

[CaM 0]

quite good considering your diff ratio too carl, can't see that a 3.05 would help keep the gears close together at all were you still looking for a 3.46?

[Gus 5]

there some intereting bits o reading about wankels...but just start a new topic otherwise i will delete and make it all about me...

gonna give grants flywheel a go.....prob get car apart over easter.....not sure yet about clutch...BMW are $440 ish.....im gonna do some ringing around tomorrow as i would like a uprated pressure plate, buts its no biggie if price too much...will keep updated

[Carl 3]

quite good considering your diff ratio too carl, can't see that a 3.05 would help keep the gears close together at all were you still looking for a 3.46?

Have a 3.25 and am contemplating whether to use a 3.64 or 3.91 next...it's all going to happen at the same time, diff and clutch...

[Gus 5]

Ended up getting a LuK clutch for $256 and some rear handbrake shoes for $46.......will

see how these go....hopefully they ok.....a wee bit cheaper than BMW......much thanks

to grant for sending up his light flywheel which should be here tomorrow....12 lb's = 5.44 kg

[bumpstop325 0]

carl, try the BEN site.

www.bmwe30.net and post a question in the tech forum

[Gus 5]

carl go a 3.91 if you can......putting it this way i have 3.64, but would love a 3.91......and having a 320 you want one even more so

yes you do

[petone 0]

I got a 3.91, wouldn't mind going 4.10 Only prob is mine is probably the small case. I think my car should have 4.1 but maybe it was changed by PO? How much work to swap over to the larger diff size?

[bumpstop325 0]

carl is the expert diff swaper. just about everytime i talk to him,

carl:i got so and so diff in now.

tim:what happend to the last one?

carl:i blew it up

tim:f**ken dumbarse

but seriously, carl is the man to see, he could whip one out and replace it in another hour or so. just like me and g/b swaps. done it x amount of times.

[Carl 3]

carl is the expert diff swaper. just about everytime i talk to him,

carl:i got so and so diff in now.

tim:what happend to the last one?

carl:i blew it up

tim:f**ken dumbarse

but seriously, carl is the man to see, he could whip one out and replace it in another hour or so. just like me and g/b swaps. done it x amount of times.

Diff's are easy, just need a big f**k off trolley jack and a second pair off hands.

Small and medium case diffs share the 6 bolt axle stubs, the large cases aren't compatible, so i'm told.

Mike, your 318 can take a 4.11 diff from any E30, you could do a diff swap with Tane as he needs to drop down a ratio size or two, I believe he is running a 4.27.

Gus, I had a 4.45 and that was way too high...I also had a 3.45 which wasn't too bad...3.73 or 3.82 would be tits, I know two people who had these ratio diffs available before too they're gone now

The key is being able to hit 100kph in 2nd gear to avoid having to do a 2 gear changes in a 0-100 sprint. Does the 3.91 ratio let you hit 100kph in 2nd gear???

[Gus 5]

no it wouldnt.....but who cares? would be quicker anyway, gear changing isnt that slow...my 3.64 just about nudges 100k at 6800 RPM

[Guest Andrew]

carl is the expert diff swaper. just about everytime i talk to him,

carl:i got so and so diff in now.

tim:what happend to the last one?

carl:i blew it up

tim:f**ken dumbarse

but seriously, carl is the man to see, he could whip one out and replace it in another hour or so. just like me and g/b swaps. done it x amount of times.

Diff's are easy, just need a big f**k off trolley jack and a second pair off hands.

Small and medium case diffs share the 6 bolt axle stubs, the large cases aren't compatible, so i'm told.

Mike, your 318 can take a 4.11 diff from any E30, you could do a diff swap with Tane as he needs to drop down a ratio size or two, I believe he is running a 4.27.

Gus, I had a 4.45 and that was way too high...I also had a 3.45 which wasn't too bad...3.73 or 3.82 would be tits, I know two people who had these ratio diffs available before too they're gone now

The key is being able to hit 100kph in 2nd gear to avoid having to do a 2 gear changes in a 0-100 sprint. Does the 3.91 ratio let you hit 100kph in 2nd gear???

no 3.91 wall fall sort of 100 - perhaps 90 kph or so?

We have medium case diffs.

[petone 0]

Yeah gets 90 roughly in 2nd, 3rd about 135. It would just be nice to have the gears closer together. For some reason my limiter is cutting in early, around 5,900rpm. Any reason for this or an easy fix? As for putting 4.27 diff in, what revs would i be pulling at 100k? with the 3.91 its 2600.

[Carl 3]

Yeah gets 90 roughly in 2nd, 3rd about 135. It would just be nice to have the gears closer together. For some reason my limiter is cutting in early, around 5,900rpm. Any reason for this or an easy fix? As for putting 4.27 diff in, what revs would i be pulling at 100k? with the 3.91 its 2600.

Let me get back to you on that one...what ratio is your 5th gear, 0.81???

I know 4 diff ratios and what they pull @ 100pkh in mine but i'll go find the S/S I had with all the values.

[Gus 5]

that spread sheet of ove koram?

its not that accurate...ok for bout first 3 gears but after that loses it a little....thats what i found anyway....i want a 4.1 in my car

[Carl 3]

that spread sheet of ove koram?

its not that accurate...ok for bout first 3 gears but after that loses it a little....thats what i found anyway....i want a 4.1 in my car

No, it's one that Glenn made up comparing a Getrag260 to a Toyota W58

I've found it to be spot on for predicting rpm's as you can set the tyre size for your car and the rpm you're looking for.

Was spot on for predicting what the 4.45, 4.27, 3.45, and 3.25 diffs would do in the different gears.

Only thing is that the Getrag 260 g/box is the 323i box so for the 320i and 325i g/boxes the 1st 2nd and 3rd gears are going to be slightly different.

EDIT: PM me if you want it, i'm currently playing with it so it graphs speed on the X axis and with RPM on the Y axis shows the lines for the gear ratios - much like what you get in the Gran Turismo game when trying to modify the gear ratios.

Edited March 24, 2005 by ///Carl