The police and the law...

[Linden 0]

Alright guys so heres what happened, and before anyone starts going on about being a boy racer out causing trouble this isnt what happened so abuse isnt needed..

On Friday 13th of August at approximately 11.30pm as I was turning left from Manchester Street onto Cambridge Terrace, during this turn I drove over a uneven section of road (see picture1) and the rear of my car slid in the wet as i drove around the corner.

I then continued down Cambridge Tce and left onto Columbo Street. As I began indicating left onto Oxford Terrace the police car behind me turned on his lights and turned left behind me, I immediately pulled over and turned off my vehicle as the officer stopped his vehicle next to mine.

As I opened my car door and was about to exit my vehicle, the officer grabbed me by the shoulder as he said "you're a f**king idiot" pulled me from my vehicle and pushed me onto the policecar and handcuffed me behind my back.

A second police car also pulls up and I hear the incident had been called in as a persuit.

After some time a sergeant arrived and I was un-handcuffed before the other officers talked with him and then left.

I was then given a Traffic Offence Notice for "sustained Loss of Traction" and also a court summons for: Operated a motor vehicle in a manner that caused a sustained loss of traction in contravention of section 22(A)(1)

and summoned to appear on Mon the 24th of August.

Needs to be corrected:

The charge above stated in law is 22(A)(3)

The date above is also a Tuesday

I have no criminal or driving offenses and I cannot stress enough that this was not a drift, skid, or handbrake turn it was purely a case of road conditions (uneven surface and oils lifted after raining).

My interpretation of this law is it is for instances where a car is purposely operated to lose traction and to do burnouts and/or skid/slide.

The Law:

Section 22A (3) States

(3) A person must not, without reasonable excuse, operate a motor vehicle on a road in a manner that causes the vehicle to undergo sustained loss of traction unless the operation of the vehicle in that manner is authorised by law.

Positive input would be nice, im not posting this up to be flamed...

The Road

This is the direction the cop was coming, further back though (corner up to the right)

[Mark 178]

You were summoned to appear last Tuesday? What happened in court? Did you have a lawyer present?

[Linden 0]

Didnt have to go into court because i pled not guilty when i was there, so I have to go back to court on the 20th of September

[joshnz 2]

+1, would like to see where this goes ...

[Silver Fox 43]

My daughter had a similar problem in Orewa last year, wet road in my E28 535, turned a corner and lost the back for a second or two. She got pulled over and given the same ticket, and told at the time by the cop that she was showing off. She didn't know anyone up there, and I wrote to the traffic dept and explained her version of events.

She got the ticket wiped, and no further action was taken. If you are polite and reasonable, and a bit lucky, you can get these things changed, but you need to explain yourself pretty well and have a good case.

Good luck with yours.

[Linden 0]

Huge thing against boy racers down here so im going to need alot of luck due to my car being lowered with rims instantly puts me in the target catagory, eg people for cops to harass...

[nath 128]

Hmm tough situation man and I feel for ya, however I think when it comes to the crux, 'nana' or 'mother of 2' wouldn't have lost traction- so you may not have a very strong leg to stand on.

Nonetheless I would be very mad if this happened to me- i'm a stubborn c*nt

[cliffdunedin 8]

You really need to get a proper lawyer and use the photos as evidence etc, i know even in the 318 how easy it can be to lose traction and by the look of that road it should help your case...though in saying that i would not think the police would chase you for a couple of seconds of traction loss.

[maxlev 0]

Is it common practice to be wrenched out of your car and handcuffed for a minor traffic infringement?

Or, are the over the top actions part of a PR exercise to make all drivers hate the police?

[Mark 178]

^^ Steady on fella

No, it's not right for a cop to pull you from your vehicle over a traffic infringement. But with the number of idiots running from the cops and killing innocent people (especially in Chch) at the moment, I can see why the police are uptight and not taking chances.

Linden, get a lawyer and plead your case, that's all you can do.

[Linden 0]

The thing is I pulled over straight away when the officer turned his lights on, does it bring to question how many people are treated like this and why some people actually run from cops, it wasnt exactly the nicest experienced to be handcuffed and then yelled at for 5 mins while i tried to calm the officer down, Im starting to wonder if people run from cops because alot of people do get treated like this? (yes i know there are ALOT of idiots down here, but there are others..)

[Driftit 1925]

Is it common practice to be wrenched out of your car and handcuffed for a minor traffic infringement?

Or, are the over the top actions part of a PR exercise to make all drivers hate the police?

I also wondered about this bit. Seems a bit excessive. Especially when you had pulled over and turned the car off. I am sure Police would need good reason to use any force.

It is always hard for other forum users to take sides when we read these kind of stories. And even if the story you have told is fact, it can still be interpreted in different ways.

To me it ether seems the cop has mistaken your slide for a burnout/drift and then has mistaken you driving away as trying to run from him. Then using excessive force against you.

Or he wasn't mistaken at all. To make such big miss-observations on what seems to be a simple scenario does happen. But not all that often.

Edited August 29, 2010 by driftit

[kingkarl 136]

Tough break man.

Definitely get a lawyer. Even though it's a minor conviction, you obviously still do not want it on your record. Employers are becoming VERY pedantic and I've talked to quite a few who wont hire people if they have ANY convictions, regardless of how minor they may be.

I'm not suggesting anything, but how fast were you going? Seems a little unusual for the car to just slide like that even with a slippery road.

Lodge a complaint with the police complaints authority too. There's no reason for that cowboy to treat you like that.

[mark247 38]

Get a lawyer and argue the case. You should be fine.

I got done for sustained loss of traction a few years ago, and i was very much intentionally doing it ( yes muppetry ) and even I managed to get let off with just diversion due to the lawyer putting forward a good argument. They dont usually give diversion for sustained loss of traction because it has a minimum 6 months loss of license.

Don't go without a lawyer.

[Linden 0]

The thing im worried about is even if i do get a lawyer what are the chances of me actually getting off it, thats a grand on a lawyer and Im already spending almost 400 on getting my car out of impound whether I win or lose the case.

Im guessing nobody has had any luck defending a charge themselves?

[pureboiracer 0]

unless you know the law inside out, i dont just mean the appropriate act and such but the entire law system that has any relation to this then i would recommend getting a lawyer, when the sargent guy came over and unhancuffed you did you mention about being yelled at and getting pulled out of your car like you did? also did you get the cops id # and all that?

if you get a good lawyer and you have a good case its quite possible you could get the charges dropped and perhaps the impound fees? im not sure on the latter. also could argue that the traction loss was not "sustained" but at the end of the day its kinda your word against his but glwthis.

[cliffdunedin 8]

The thing im worried about is even if i do get a lawyer what are the chances of me actually getting off it, thats a grand on a lawyer and Im already spending almost 400 on getting my car out of impound whether I win or lose the case.

Im guessing nobody has had any luck defending a charge themselves?

Never defend yourself...if you stuff up anything you have no comeback and could actually end up doing more bad then good.

if you have not been in trouble before you will more than likely be able to apply for diversion...when i was younger, i got diversion 3 times for drunken type offences all with the help of a paid lawyer, i'm sure if i had have used the court appointed ones i'd have a few X's against my name...if you are unemployed or a student you can apply for legal aide and pay it off in installments or not at all.

You should go visit your local community law centre or C.A.B to get some info and clarification.

[pureboiracer 0]

^ no diversion for sus los well not usually.

[OP6 27]

The cop, bald in mufti in a mufti car?

It seems this is all too common down here.

You can get a court appointed lawyer (on the day0 who will plead on your behalf and present any documentation you have to the judge.

I have seen exactly your case happen twice in CHC, once with handcuffs and once where the drivers hand was placed in the doorjamb and then the door pushed shut to trap the drivers hand whilst the tirade went on, with lots of finger poking and shin tapping.

The driver lost his licence for 6 months, got a $500 fine, car was impounded for 28 days and cost, I think he said, $300 + to get the car out. I wrote a letter stating what I had witnessed, to the guy, the police, and gave a copy to the court.

Linden you may well get a fair hearing in light of the photos.

My son had a similar "incident" and the lawyer was Levi someone from Malley and Co in CHC he cost $800. In that case the lawyer was absolutely useless, but we approached the court appointed lawyer and he was very good and helpfull.

I wish you all the best.

[Docile 64]

i dont think your supposed to open your door and step out. dats prob why you got handcuffed. supposed to wait in the car turn engine off and open window and wait for instructions.

had probs on a hill roundabout here. 80% gauranteed to slip da rear on da ole 318 e30

[Andre3000 55]

I have a mate, who encountered similar circumstances. Cops jumped out in front of car when he spun the turbo up a bit, he swerved to avoid, cruised up the road slowly before getting blocked by a patrol car. his car was impounded, and charges for dangerous driving and failure to stop were issued, and he was arrested and spent the night in central.

He has fought these charges with a lawyer and is close to getting them dropped completely due to a good lawyer bringing the facts out and showing the judge the gross exaggeration in the police officers' statements.

I've witnessed over embellishment on behalf of the police many times now, and if you present your case, including every little detail to a lawyer, I'm sure you will have no trouble fighting those charges.

[mark247 38]

The thing im worried about is even if i do get a lawyer what are the chances of me actually getting off it, thats a grand on a lawyer and Im already spending almost 400 on getting my car out of impound whether I win or lose the case.

Im guessing nobody has had any luck defending a charge themselves?

The duty solicitors sometimes can be really good but sometimes useless. I got let off a careless driving charge once because I wrote a detailed letter explaining the motorcycle crash I was in and showed it to the duty solicitor before I went in front of the judge, she said I had a case and got it read out to the judge and the judge just said fair enough and let me off.

Basically if you have a good story and seem genuine, you could have a good chance. It's just sometime I've heard the duty solicitors can be rather useless.

[Lucan 196]

i dont think your supposed to open your door and step out. dats prob why you got handcuffed. supposed to wait in the car turn engine off and open window and wait for instructions.

This is what I was thinking, why did you open the door to get out?

[cliffdunedin 8]

^ no diversion for sus los well not usually.

I was only supposed to be able to get diversion once, too but having a good lawyer changed that...i know friends who have used their diversions on other things you are not supposedy able to use diversion on.

Basically if you have a good story and seem genuine, you could have a good chance. It's just sometime I've heard the duty solicitors can be rather useless.

I think that's the main thing eh, if the story he told is genuine, along with the photos and reason why he got out of the car are all viable...i would say a non-duty solicitor would be able to help.

[Phatputer 3]

Almost had this happen to me,

Intersection -> ice -> back end slid out with a cop following me

Cop's lights go on, pulls out of intersection his ass end slides out.. lights go off