Opportunity to replicate M3 CSL intake

[M3_Power 636]

Okay ... a member on here already knows about this, but I thought I would throw a post up and see if there are interests and ability to do this here locally.

Everyone knows how expensive the CSL intake is (even a replica) - to make a replica air box you basically have to cut one open to mould it. My question to the members here in the industry is, is it possible to make a replica of one without cutting the original one open.

If so I would like to hear about it, because I am able to 'donate' one for such an exercise (not out of my car) - but a genuine air box.

Once moulds are made (or CAD drawing done or similar) I have access to a really good fabricator that can then make these up for local members that want one.

I am not after anything out of this, really just doing this for the community - that's if it can be done at all.

Edited May 22, 2013 by M3_Power

[hybrid 1039]

Tom, the best way to make a mould is to use a 3d scanner. Im not sure the hand held ones are going to cut it.

But a fixed arm scanner and someone afterwards to clean up the result in 3d CAD and turn it into parts. From this you can get it routed out of wood.

Ollie could actually do the 3d part, its just the scanning you'll be looking for. Which i'm sure Ollie knows someone in the industry too for that

[Tristan 338]

Sounds brilliant, Tom.

[nastnas 9]

What about the throttleBody? Would you buy that from bmw?

[MLM 57]

There is a crowd on the North shore who 3d scan with acceptable results but need to paint the item with a special paint so the laser reads correctly. Ok accuracy but tidying up mis matched surfaces in a CAD model is a tedious job.

A farro arm would build a point cloud for you but may be just as easy to start from scratch with careful measurement of key interfaces.

Also the mold would not be of the item as a whole but specific areas post finished and assembled if using composite manufacture. This may allow specific areas to be molded without damaging them and re build from these sections. Eg top half, bottom half, individual internal trumpet etc and join.

[swordfish 30]

I would be interested in a modified version of this intake for E36 M3... There is a company in Germany that does those. I am not sure how expensive they are, but they look amazing!!! Linky

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2914]

As it's the air intake, isn't it the inside that is the more important surface? Not sure if it has baffles, or trumpets or similar inside, but wouldn't it be difficult to scan all that from the outside... hence maybe the reason you need to cut it open to copy it??

[SimJen 0]

Send it to China, then the whole world can have a copy for $100 a piece!

With the right moulds, it could be made in basic gelcoated fibreglass or carbon etc depending on how much you'd want to spend.

I'd imagine it would need to be broken down into 4+ pieces to effectively mould the shell with the inner trumpets moulded separately obviously.

What model are we talking about here? E46?

[Tristan 338]

Send it to China, then the whole world can have a copy for $100 a piece!

With the right moulds, it could be made in basic gelcoated fibreglass or carbon etc depending on how much you'd want to spend.

I'd imagine it would need to be broken down into 4+ pieces to effectively mould the shell with the inner trumpets moulded separately obviously.

What model are we talking about here? E46?

E46 M3 CSL

Correct.

[SimJen 0]

E46 M3 CSL

Correct.

Cool I thought so, It would be nice if these would fit an M54 too

[M3_Power 636]

The ITB trumpets/velocity stacks can come out of the standard airbox - they are plastic and are held on by a plastic ring on the back + rubber boot - remove those and the trumpets slide out. So technically you would just mould the carbon box and reuse the ITB plastic trumpets/velocity stacks

The stock airbox from what I can gather is made up of no less than 7 individual sections (4 on the main plenum and 3 on the snorkel). Some of the moulds I've seen have about 6 individual sections - the box is then assembled from those individual sections.

I am of the opinion that you can 3D scan this from the outside and tidy it up in CAD - hence my post here.

I am merely putting this airbox up for anyone that wants to take on the project of doing it - I am not doing this personally as I don't have the know-how or the capacity to actually get the project done on my own (except down the route of cutting it open and moulding it which I am not about to do).

Good feedbacks and suggestions so far - anyway just throwing the idea out there to get feedbacks on the best solution to approach this.

I highly doubt even China can produce this for $100 a piece - the material alone would far exceed that! Unless done out of thermoplastics I suppose haha!!

[MLM 57]

If all your after is an outer shell ( interior parts can be removed as you say) then a two part mold can be made from the original without cutting it up depending on complexity. More sections can be added easily enough to handle tricky areas. The two (+) molds will create two parts which can be joined like i did on my air box.

Two schools of thought here

1) Replicate the original - Make a mold from the original without cutting it up which should be easy enough.

2) Make a replacement of your own design - Cad up a air box and have a mold machined. Again easy to do.

Either way you should be able to preserve your original item.

3D scanning sounds like fun untill you get the bill.

[SimJen 0]

Quick way would be to take a simple mould externally as MLM said.

Easy enough to do and wouldn't require cutting too much up.

I can't see it being too tricky to accomplish this, as its just a basic mould nothing more.

Alternatively, get a price from these peeps:

http://www.formscan3d.co.nz/

http://www.ssengineering.co.nz/

If it was converted to a cad file then it could be modified by the end user prior to manufacture, so a version for non m3's could be made perhaps?

[M3_Power 636]

If it was converted to a cad file then it could be modified by the end user prior to manufacture, so a version for non m3's could be made perhaps?

There's not really any point in doing that when we have access to the mould for this ...

Here's what the CSL box looks like ... so it's a bit easier to visualise.

Edited May 23, 2013 by M3_Power

[easy4life 2]

Okay ... a member on here already knows about this, but I thought I would throw a post up and see if there are interests and ability to do this here locally.

Everyone knows how expensive the CSL intake is (even a replica) - to make a replica air box you basically have to cut one open to mould it. My question to the members here in the industry is, is it possible to make a replica of one without cutting the original one open.

If so I would like to hear about it, because I am able to 'donate' one for such an exercise (not out of my car) - but a genuine air box.

Once moulds are made (or CAD drawing done or similar) I have access to a really good fabricator that can then make these up for local members that want one.

I am not after anything out of this, really just doing this for the community - that's if it can be done at all.

I am KEEN， Tom

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Holy sh*t, that things a monster!! Anyone have any clue as to how much difference it would make to torques & horsepowers?

[Tristan 338]

Holy sh*t, that things a monster!! Anyone have any clue as to how much difference it would make to torques & horsepowers?

The E46 M3 is not cheap to get power of of.

The Evolve air box @ £3000 with their Alpha-N tune for a 25-30hp increase.

Yes, that is about $5.6K NZD for the item, probably take it to $6K for shipping. Add installation to that...

Horsepowerz are expensiv

Really want to hear CSL induction noise in person

[Ahmedsinc 414]

The E46 M3 is not cheap to get power of of.

The Evolve air box @ £3000 with their Alpha-N tune for a 25-30hp increase.

Yes, that is about $5.6K NZD for the item, probably take it to $6K for shipping. Add installation to that...

Horsepowerz are expensiv

Really want to hear CSL induction noise in person

25 hp is pretty good just for cold air induction!

Still, thats $240 per horse without install expenses Fark!

Would have to wonder what sort of gains I could make for my old M50B25 with one of those intakes and a freer flowing exhaust.....ahh well, dreams are free!

[central3 31]

This is a very generous offer Tom and one which the community needs to take seriously - I don't have the skills needed but would be keen to contribute to developing this up into a conversion kit for M3 owners - count me in - in one form or another

[kinetik 4]

25 hp is pretty good just for cold air induction!

It's also the Evolve tune. Even with an otherwise stock engine (i.e. still MAF based), Evolve claim 15-24hp with their tune.

IMO, you're better off to buy an already developed intake and tune like Evolve's, after seeing the growing pains developing their one (see the m3forum.net threads; I was originally on the initial group buy list when it was under development but pulled out when they started having issues) I don't think you'll be able to do it much cheaper.

Edited May 23, 2013 by kinetik

[Tristan 338]

This is a very generous offer Tom and one which the community needs to take seriously - I don't have the skills needed but would be keen to contribute to developing this up into a conversion kit for M3 owners - count me in - in one form or another

Agree this is incredibly generous of Tom.

I can also say that I have no skills when it comes to engineering, CAD, 3D scanning, or anything of the kind.

Tom, if you think I can help in any way please let me know but I don't know what I can offer.

Cheers

[M3_Power 636]

IMO, you're better off to buy an already developed intake and tune like Evolve's, after seeing the growing pains developing their one (see the m3forum.net threads; I was originally on the initial group buy list when it was under development but pulled out when they started having issues) I don't think you'll be able to do it much cheaper.

I actually disagree with that statement.

From my experience and what I've seen from overseas packaged tunes, turbo/supercharger kits ect - none of them work properly in New Zealand - mostly due to the poor quality fuel we have and the different DME program used as an initial starting point.

In addition, the cheapest replica CSL airbox out there at the moment is the Geoff Steel racing unit and then prices go up quite significantly from there. Add shipping, GST on top and you are looking close to $3000 just for an airbox.

In terms of $ per hp, the airbox is a bad idea if I am honest - if you are after horse power then forced induction is the way to go for this motor - if you are after noise, then not much beat the CSL intake (or a modified stock airbox that's starting to become quite popular in the States - it basically takes the concept of the CSL airbox and a modified stock plastic unit - quite clever actually and easy to make work).

I agree this isn't for everyone - at the end of the day I am just offering this up for someone (or a group of people) capable of doing it to do it - if no one can or wants to it doesn't bother me at all. I am indifferent, just giving the community an opportunity - not often you get a genuine box to mould or scan from (at least not when the real thing is $8.5K+ just to buy) - what I was hoping at the end of the day is perhaps for kiwi ingenuity to create something just as good at a fraction of the asking price of what all the overseas retailers are asking for such an item.

Edited May 23, 2013 by M3_Power

[MLM 57]

Its an excellent offer and thanks for the thought Tom.

The time and expence it takes to get this right excludes me unfortunatly. I easilly spent as much on the molds and days of effort on mine as I did a final part. And I was only interested in making one. I did price my solution up for someone in the USA and it had to be $1500us before it began to make sence and didnt include a realistic rate for time imput.

If I were to do this as an venture i would want to invest significantly in quality tooling making the individual part cost higher to recover costs. I imagine it wouldnt be a high volume item given the rarity of application and supporting mods required.

Still it would make a fun project for the correct person who would benfit from the work

[hybrid 1039]

Will flick you a PM tom.

Ollie will be interested in the modelling side and is highly qualified to do it. Again, all we need to do is get it 3d scanned with a professional scanner and Ollie will sort the rest.

I also have access to a 4 1/2 axis CNC machine and engineering shop.

edit: PMed

[euroriffic 595]

Depending on price and if Itl fit the s50 I could be keen