SMG issues... ECU or PUMP replacement?

[hybrid 1039]

I think the problem is it starts with a lot of us who have the information and been here so long you get a little bit jaded and just stop reading these sorts of threads. Even when you do you cant be bothered arguing with people, or telling people to try a certain way of doing things for them to only go off and do something else. It actually gets a little bit rude. And its not a respect thing. If you had someone do that in real life you would just mark them as a time waster. So the same thing happens to happen here. Most of the people I help these days are people I have gotten to know and actually spent time with outside of bimmersport. Ive stopped listing what im good at because it just invites silly PMs. Generally I operate on referal from some one like Ray.

It also doesnt help when the person doesnt give a proper problem discription. This guy has so he got great qaulity help as it allow tom to work backwards from some information given.

I do understand that people arent as technical, but problem solving isnt always about being technical .. infact most times not. Its about describing the problem properly coming up with all of the scenarios resisting the urgent to make assumptions and testing the hell / prooving your theories methodically.

Just some ramblings from a jaded bimmersporter

[allan 295]

Well said old chap!

[camera doctor 25]

I think the problem is it starts with a lot of us who have the information and been here so long you get a little bit jaded and just stop reading these sorts of threads. Even when you do you cant be bothered arguing with people, or telling people to try a certain way of doing things for them to only go off and do something else. It actually gets a little bit rude. And its not a respect thing. If you had someone do that in real life you would just mark them as a time waster. So the same thing happens to happen here. Most of the people I help these days are people I have gotten to know and actually spent time with outside of bimmersport. Ive stopped listing what im good at because it just invites silly PMs. Generally I operate on referal from some one like Ray.

It also doesnt help when the person doesnt give a proper problem discription. This guy has so he got great qaulity help as it allow tom to work backwards from some information given.

I do understand that people arent as technical, but problem solving isnt always about being technical .. infact most times not. Its about describing the problem properly coming up with all of the scenarios resisting the urgent to make assumptions and testing the hell / prooving your theories methodically.

Just some ramblings from a jaded bimmersporter

Here Here !!

I have 25yrs experience in repairs, and it bugs the bejeezes out of me when people ring for my 'advice' and then go on to say something random like " Oh, that can't be right, cause I saw xyz on the Internet' !!!

Why did they ask for my experience if they were just going to totally disregard it !!

Great to see Bimmersport getting back to what is is supposed to be for - I recently PMed one of the Moderators expressing my dismay at the slanging match this forum had started to become - well done Tom bringing this back to a great resource for all BMW owners.

[MondoM3 0]

Arrrrgh. The story continues.

Jeff Gray have said they have cut the circuit for the SMG temp sensor. First the car started with no problems.

Now the car doesn't seem to know what gear it is or isn't in...

Apparently the fault related is for failed gear selection. fault code: Selection angle sensor p1758

Seems so strange and unrelated!?

I have a feeling that they have cut wrong wire!!!!! f**k I hope not.

Edited August 2, 2013 by MondoM3

[hybrid 1039]

If they are reading it from the BMW WDS and know what theyre looking at they shouldnt be cuttng the wrong wires.

The colour codes on the wires are abbreviated German.

Do you have your VIN number handy (will be a long number stamped into your front strut tower).. will have a look

[M3_Power 636]

Wiring diagram ... (ignore the green arrow) Photo stolen from internet ...

They can also get to it from the top of the fuse box:

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=414499

Edited August 2, 2013 by M3_Power

[hybrid 1039]

Tom I read from that diagram you are talking about PIN 21 back to the control module.

German abbreviation WS is Weiß or pronounced "Viess" (White in english)

Now here is where it gets tricky. There are two variants of control module on the '02' m3. upto 2002/09 and 2002/09 to 2003/03. They need to make sure they're using the right diagram.

What colour wire did they cut at the dealership ?

There is a red and white wire (Rot/weiß) RT/WS which is the solenoid clutch valve. That will trigger your error you are seeing.

[MondoM3 0]

UPDATE

After a discussion with the operations manager and the workshop foreman it seems that the gear selector angle sensor fault is independent from the hydraulic pressure issues...hmm

After leaving the dealership I was called back and told that one of the techs had just pulled off the plug connected to the pump. This plug was completely swamped with water!! When the plug was pulled off, water has pissed out onto the shop floor.

Just when you thought this couldn't get any stranger.

At some point the car seems to have been pressure washed in the engine bay, causing water to collect in the wiring plug. This can only have happened before December 2012 which is when I bought the car.

I have since contacted Tom and discussed a plan of attack... I've asked them to disconnect the battery, dry out the plug connections, check all fuses, reconnect battery, clear all fault codes and see if the car starts.

Will keep you guys posted.

[hybrid 1039]

Good stuff.

You really should test the wiring back from that plug full of water to the control module after this. This can be achieved by a simple continuity test. Most of the those circuits are only 5 volts .. however the solenoid lines are 12 volts. It shouldn't have damaged the control unit as these Siemens and Bosch units have pretty good overload / short out protection.

What you're trying to achieve is a pretty simple thing. The temp sensor is just a 'dumb' variable resistor. Replacing it with a fixed resistor will tell it to stop fretting about the temperature. However it is probably also worth investigating why yours keep soaring so much compared to others. Their maybe a deeper issue.

[MondoM3 0]

If they are reading it from the BMW WDS and know what theyre looking at they shouldnt be cuttng the wrong wires.

The colour codes on the wires are abbreviated German.

Do you have your VIN number handy (will be a long number stamped into your front strut tower).. will have a look

Have since been shown the diagram (same as Tom's) by the foreman so it they have the right one I believe.

Chassis number: JR03279

That water has been sitting for months and months which explains why this has occurred immediately after getting my Vanos sorted. Im just hoping the damage caused does not go past electrical connections and fuses.

[MondoM3 0]

Good stuff.

You really should test the wiring back from that plug full of water to the control module after this. This can be achieved by a simple continuity test. Most of the those circuits are only 5 volts .. however the solenoid lines are 12 volts. It shouldn't have damaged the control unit as these Siemens and Bosch units have pretty good overload / short out protection.

What you're trying to achieve is a pretty simple thing. The temp sensor is just a 'dumb' variable resistor. Replacing it with a fixed resistor will tell it to stop fretting about the temperature. However it is probably also worth investigating why yours keep soaring so much compared to others. Their maybe a deeper issue.

Yeah you're right, I could have an issue that hasn't even been discussed here yet. I haven't come across this in other forums before, although I'm not saying it hasn't happened a lot in the past.

pressure washing your BMW's engine bay => DONT DO IT! lol

[hybrid 1039]

Cool you have the earlier 02 version (just). So that diagram tom posted is correct.

Here are all possible inputs and programs from the program table in the SMG2 control module.

0x22 gearbox temperature

0x27 hydraulic temperature

0x23 hydraulic pressure sensor evaluation

0x35 Lower level of pressure reached HE

0x36 Exceeding pressure range HE

0x33 bonnet switch evaluation while driving

0x34 bonnet switch evaluation while standstill

0x72 selector lever evaluation

0x24 selector angle (WW) position sensor evaluation

0x25 shift path (gear) position sensor evaluation

0x26 longitudinal acceleration evaluation

0x61 voltage supply

0x62 voltage supply sensor A

0x63 voltage supply sensor B

0x20 gearbox input speed evaluation

0x21 engine speed evaluation (sensor)

0x96 engine speed evaluation (CAN bus)

0x28 PLCD-sensor for position of clutch evaluation

0x80 Erroneous CAN message / CAN bus error

0x81 CAN error

0x91 wheel speed rear left evaluation

0x92 wheel speed rear right evaluation

0x93 wheel speed front left evaluation

0x94 wheel speed front right evaluation

0x95 wheel speed evaluation (several wheels)

0x97 operating break signals by CAN

0x9B Evaluation of gas pedal value via CAN

0x98 Evaluation of steering angle via CAN

0x99 Evaluation of lateral acceleration via CAN

0x9A Evaluation of longitudinal acceleration via CAN

0x90 door switch evaluation by CAN

0x13 Shift Lock control

0x14 starter enable

0x15 hydraulic pump relay control

0x16 light switch for reverse control

0x10 solenoid valve gear forward

0x11 solenoid valve gear backward

0x12 solenoid valve selector angle (WW)

0x17 solenoid valve clutch

0x50 gearbox controller internal error

0xB0 safety concept level 2, gearbox

0xB1 safety concept level 2, clutch

0xB2 safety concept level 3

0x53 gearbox adaptation

0x54 General Adaption

0x55 clutch adaptation

0x30 gear not changable

0x31 gear jump

0x32 Selector angle cannot be regulated

0x73 electrical consumers shutoff VA evaluation

0x74 program selector Plus evaluation

0x75 program selector Minus evaluation

0x76 steering wheel switch + evaluation

0x77 steering wheel switch - evaluation

0x37 Switching-on frequency of hydraulic unit

0x38 Switching-on time of hydraulic unit

0x39 Misuse of hydraulic unit

0x64 Power supply of solenoid valves for gear movement

0x65 Power supply of solenoid valves for clutch and selector angle

0x56 Bleeding

0x57 Aktions modi

0x78 Evaluation of ignition signal

0x51 Evaluation of ESTATE

0xB3 safety concept level 2, RAM

0xB4 safety concept level 2, input

0x3A not able to take out of gear

0x3B Clutch control

0x58 Adaption values of gearbox

0xFF Unknown error location

And all test programs that can be run (only using spcailist factory software (not shop software)

TESTPRG_NR TESTPRG_NAME DAUER TYP. DAUER MAX.

0x01 Bleeding clutch share cylinder/hydraulik line 2 min 2 min

0x02 Adapt clutch shipping point 5 sek 10 sek

0x03 Adapt clutch shipping values 1 min 2 min

0x04 Evaluate hydraulik pressure reserve 8 sek 30 sek

0x05 Bleeding gearbox actuator 16 min 16 min

0x06 Adapt current offset for selector angle (slot)

0x07 Completely adapt gerabox 2,30 min 3,0 min

0x08 Adapt offset for longitudinal accelration sensor 5 sek 20 sek

0x09 Position centre of shift path

0x0A Put into any gear

0x0B Adapt gearbox

0x0C Test centre of shift path and selector angle sensor

0x0D Adapt selector angle gear recognition

0x15 Produce start conditions for engine

You are looking at a problem with 0x15 .. it is possible to test for this ... but I would need to be at the car unfortunately.

[M3_Power 636]

Tom I read from that diagram you are talking about PIN 21 back to the control module.

German abbreviation WS is Weiß or pronounced "Viess" (White in english)

Now here is where it gets tricky. There are two variants of control module on the '02' m3. upto 2002/09 and 2002/09 to 2003/03. They need to make sure they're using the right diagram.

What colour wire did they cut at the dealership ?

There is a red and white wire (Rot/weiß) RT/WS which is the solenoid clutch valve. That will trigger your error you are seeing.

I am reasonably certain both variants are the same wiring wise.

Simon states that the dealership didn't cut any wires - they just unplugged it from the Temp sensor so it defaulted to limp mode temp.

Understandable that official dealship service centres have to follow official repair protocols and rightly so - if they deviate from it and stuff things up they end up being liable for it and without the back up from Germany, so I can appreciate that sometimes their hands are tied in terms of trying things (even if tried and proven).

I do hope you get to the bottom of this soon Simon - I honestly feel for you and the situation you are finding yourself in with this car. Most people would have thrown in the towel and cut their loss so to speak. But look at it this way - once sorted, you'd have been through all the major issues that you encounter with the E46 M3 and resolved it - it'll be a car that's going to be like new and trouble free for a very long time!! (fingers crossed!)

Also appreciate all the compliments guys - undeserved really, as I am mostly regurgitating what's already out there (I just happen to have come across enough of these issues from other owners and read enough to know what to look for and find it immediately for the OP - lucky to have been an owner since 2001 also helps).

This is a great community deserving of sharing of knowledge and experience - I am more than happy to help and contribute whenever I can!

0x39 Misuse of hydraulic unit

I chuckled a little seeing this one .... I wonder what might trigger it

Edited August 2, 2013 by M3_Power

[hybrid 1039]

I do hope you get to the bottom of this soon Simon - I honestly feel for you and the situation you are finding yourself in with this car. Most people would have thrown in the towel and cut their loss so to speak. But look at it this way - once sorted, you'd have been through all the major issues that you encounter with the E46 M3 and resolved it - it'll be a car that's going to be like new and trouble free for a very long time!! (fingers crossed!)

Unfortunately I agree, shops then fall back to "replace whole unit / problem goes away". Unfortunately its a very expensive way around the problem and not really addressing it head on.

I chuckled a little seeing this one .... I wonder what might trigger it

repeated launch control mode = void warranty outcome lol

[MondoM3 0]

Cool you have the earlier 02 version (just). So that diagram tom posted is correct.

0x15 hydraulic pump relay control

0x15 Produce start conditions for engine

You are looking at a problem with 0x15 .. it is possible to test for this ... but I would need to be at the car unfortunately.

Which one above are you thinking of? I guess they kind of both could apply at the moment lol

[M3_Power 636]

Unfortunately I agree, shops then fall back to "replace whole unit / problem goes away". Unfortunately its a very expensive way around the problem and not really addressing it head on.

Personally I think there's another reason .... $$

Take said used pump from customer, ship back for remanufacturer (swap out said temp sensor), clean pump and rebuild whatever else needs rebuilding (probably nothing, change a few seals, brushes and coils), resell as official remanufactured pump for $3695+GST.

It really irritates me sometimes when BMW don't sell repair components to a failed part resulting in customers shelling out huge amount of coin to get their cars back on the road - I guess there's a reason they are so profitable afterall!!

repeated launch control mode = void warranty outcome lol

LOL ...

Which one above are you thinking of? I guess they kind of both could apply at the moment lol

It's describing the same thing ... the relay is the on off switch ...

Edited August 2, 2013 by M3_Power

[MondoM3 0]

Cool, thanks guys. I really appreciate the support. Ive found being an M3 owner in chch is a lonely experience! haha. There just isn't the volume of BMW's here to allow for competition between dealers and workshops. Jeff Gray is literally all I have.

I just want my car back! Exactly 228 (that's two hundred and twenty eight) days since I last drove it. Friday 5pm has arrived and yet another week has passed with little/no progress... The battle resumes Monday. Until then I'll continue to see what info I can find on all this.

Simon

Edited August 2, 2013 by MondoM3

[hybrid 1039]

If they get really stuck, the next thing to try is replacing the temp sensor with a varible resistor in the range specified in the datasheet Tom posted.

This way you can drive it and dial any signal you need. This is how I diagnosed my auto trans issue on the 540. (using real time output data as well)

[MondoM3 0]

If they get really stuck, the next thing to try is replacing the temp sensor with a varible resistor in the range specified in the datasheet Tom posted.

This way you can drive it and dial any signal you need. This is how I diagnosed my auto trans issue on the 540. (using real time output data as well)

Sounds like a good solution. I think I need to address the water issues first then get back to whatever problems still remain.

I should probably let you all know that I found out today that the guys at Jeff Gray have been doing their own research online and in particular have been reading this very thread.... So here we are all learning together.

We'll get there in the end.

Edited August 2, 2013 by MondoM3

[hybrid 1039]

It's describing the same thing ... the relay is the on off switch ...

Sorry just saw this.

They're both different tables .. not related to each other in anyway, only that the addresses are the same.

[central3 31]

I think the problem is it starts with a lot of us who have the information and been here so long you get a little bit jaded and just stop reading these sorts of threads. Even when you do you cant be bothered arguing with people, or telling people to try a certain way of doing things for them to only go off and do something else. It actually gets a little bit rude. And its not a respect thing. If you had someone do that in real life you would just mark them as a time waster. So the same thing happens to happen here. Most of the people I help these days are people I have gotten to know and actually spent time with outside of bimmersport. Ive stopped listing what im good at because it just invites silly PMs. Generally I operate on referal from some one like Ray.

It also doesnt help when the person doesnt give a proper problem discription. This guy has so he got great qaulity help as it allow tom to work backwards from some information given.

I do understand that people arent as technical, but problem solving isnt always about being technical .. infact most times not. Its about describing the problem properly coming up with all of the scenarios resisting the urgent to make assumptions and testing the hell / prooving your theories methodically.

Just some ramblings from a jaded bimmersporter

Good observation Josh - your comments times 100 for USA forums - I have been following a guy on M3Forum who has a DIY on a vanos rebuild and he is just plain wrong in his method - yet he has a huge following and a significant number of "failed followers" - I chipped in briefly but got slammed and backed out - our forum is incredibly better in this regard - we are smaller but we are also kiwi's I think - anyway back to mondo's issue and yes Tom rules as do Ray, yourself and a number of out other core members

[M3_Power 636]

Sorry just saw this.

They're both different tables .. not related to each other in anyway, only that the addresses are the same.

Not sure what I was thinking there when I typed that ... ooops : P

[MondoM3 0]

UPDATE

Things haven't gone well today.

Now that the wiring terminals have been dried and cleaned up, everything was assembled back as usual. Now absolutely nothing from the pump. Wont prime or anything.

Jeff Gray have tried supplying the pump directly with power and nothing. Completely dead.

So the pump has gone from working fine until hot, to not working at all...

Trying to think of why its suddenly stopped all together. What do you guys think? Has it finally just given up or has something caused it to burn out here.

[hybrid 1039]

Cant really say as we aren't working with it but at this point from the description you supplied I would be testing board tracks and each electrical component (resistor / diode / voltage regulators etc) for function with a multimeter and oscilloscope.

[allan 295]

Gee Simon how's the hair holding out? For a so called simple system it appears to be giving you a real work over. Will be nice to finally find the gremlin that has been giving you all this trouble. Do you feel this is a straight out hydraulic fault or is it to do with the electronics that BMW throw in the mix coursing it. Keep at it Simon and nail the sucker to the wall or visions of 0.008 of a second gear shift or is that to many zero's