Beisan Vanos kit - Group Buy..?

[jaimzthedrummer 24]

Hey guys,

Hagen (Family Wagon) and I are looking at putting together a group buy of Beisan Vanos kits in the next couple of weeks. I'm guessing something that's been done a number of times before! We're both after e36 single vanos kits, plus rattle kits.

Anyone keen? I understand there's a 4 for 3 deal available. Plus savings on shipping (although if the order gets big we might get slammed for GST).

Expressions of interest here, or PM me if you prefer.

I'm also looking at getting some braided lines through Turner Motorsport, but that's a different story. :-)

James

Edited February 2, 2015 by jaimzthedrummer

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

Guys, forum sponsor Jon at JKSE is putting these together and i think is very close to having a product to take to market. If you are happy to wait, would be awesome if you supported a forum sponsor

He has also supplied braided lines for me in the past too

Ill text him now in case he not coming on tonight, he can say where he is at

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

^ Keen to hear more about this

[jaimzthedrummer 24]

Yeah me too. Happy to support a forum sponsor for sure.

My timeframe isn't quite as short as Haven't but let's see what Jon says.

Ta.

[gjm 3191]

From Jon:

"M50, M52 Single Vanos Seal kit: $68.90 shipped NZ"

Cheaper than a single kit shipped from the US? Bulk buy would obviously help there, but local supplier, a phone call away, helps the forum...

Edited February 2, 2015 by gjm

[Jono51 54]

.

Edited March 22, 2015 by JKSE

[FIAT 131R 223]

Depending on how much you want to do your self I have an M3 S54 vanos set up I use in my cars. The kit in the picture is a full upgrade on an exchange basis. The oil pump disk has been re-drilled with smaller holes so there is less backlash and helps stop tabs breaking off. The rattle repair kit has been installed in the spiral gear. Beisan O-rings and Teflon seals have been installed in the Vanos head. Upgraded hub diaphragm springs and pressure plates supplied. Upgraded sleeve bolts and upgraded hub bolts supplied. New filter and O-rings installed. There are variations if you don't want the oil pump disk redrilled.

[Jono51 54]

.

Edited March 22, 2015 by JKSE

[hybrid 1039]

it is interesting to see group buy threads started, mainly aimed at overseas business, and overseas products

has bimmersport members actually thought about approaching NZ companies with bulk orders,

It never hurts to ask,

the thing is , bimmersport members win, NZ companies win and also our economy wins in the long run

just food for thought , not complaining or having a dig

thanks

Jon

This isn’t aimed at your company Jon but to answer your query... probably because New Zealand companies are the worst at promoting themselves properly. I truly think a lot of people in this country think that because their business exists that people must know about them.

Customer communications and online catalogues rules these days and this is why overseas companies get the business over NZ ones. The other reason is NZ companies aren’t competitive with the world market, when we talk about locally produced stuff, there isn’t really an excuse why it costs twice as much as overseas.

Racebrakes was a prime example of this .... too expensive to for too long, people just went overseas because there is catalogue/stock and pricing displayed online.

They thankfully changed their tune and are now competitive internationally for braking parts.

[gjm 3191]

I'm entirely in the 'buy local if at all possible' camp. Sometimes it's not possible - some more specialist items may not be available here, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Certainly if you have an issue with something, you're more likely to get good support from someone local than you might from someone in Germany (for example) - the time difference can make life interesting, even if language doesn't.

There does seem to be, in some fields (and I'm not talking specifically about cars) nothing to choose in terms of price between buying locally, and buying from overseas. When I say nothing to choose, I am referring to the total, delivered-to-your-door, price. Take the purchase price (normally retail), add shipping, insurance (and GST/customs fees, if applicable) and the total is often very similar to the same item sourced locally.

Sometimes, an item is significantly more expensive than when sourcing overseas. If that's the case, talk to the local people and see if there's room to haggle, perhaps?

[FIAT 131R 223]

Room to haggle is a bit of a laugh. Try it with BMW. A price of $848 plus GST with discount for a set of BMW S54 rings. I can land them here from the USA for less than half the price after paying GST and freight.

I always buy NZ if I can for a reasonable price. There's a few on here can attest that as I buy off them. The big companies here have a take it or leave it attitude and I frequently leave it. Staff are not well informed or trained and prices are high. Stock levels are low or non existent and you have to wait for parts to come from a warehouse in Auckland or overseas and the companies want full retail margins and freight. To retailers who complain about not being able to sell they need to get competitive and if they can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

[Allanw 1051]

How do I check if my 20 year old single vanos is tired?

If they haven't been replaced with the correct kind, they're poked.

BMW used the wrong o rings and they don't last long as all. Mine were poked at 115kms/10 years-ish when I got the car - I don't know how long before that, and it's had regular oil changes etc - inside is very clean.

"Allegedly" Bmw continued to use the same o rings after the problem was discovered - even new/replacement vanos units continued with the old seals when BMW replaced units under warranty.

The o rings had hardened up so mauch, they no longer exerted any pressure on the teflon seal, and the pistons literally slide out of the bore with no friction. The new ones were better, and use the correct o ring which doesn't start hardening instantly on contact with oil and heat.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Allanw

[5amchris 45]

I would buy a kit if someone would install it for me. How meny hours are we talking to get a tech to do it? mines goneburgers

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

if you want to go in and inspect, then you might as well replace when you are in there any way, $60 is hardly going to break the bank.

little HP gain, better fuel economy. if it doesn't work, $60 is no huge loss, if it does, you will make that many many times over in the next 60,000km or more.

it seems a no brainer to me no matter which way you look at it

-----

And my other comment:

This is exactly why i don't bother with group buys on bimmersport anymore.

Some wanker comes in and takes the post off topic.

If the group buy is not for you, thats cool, shut the hell up and leave it for the people that are interested.

Edited February 3, 2015 by _Ethrty-Andy_

[Allanw 1051]

Sceptics don't believe, nor do engineers we test and verify and prove rather that relying on the overwhelming mountain of dross on the internet

And yet, you quoted "dross on the internet". He hasn't done any testing under controlled conditions. From what you've posted he doesn't even appear to have posted/measured the oil temp at the time of testing, or other test conditions.

Pointless commentary Dave, your photo is an example and doubtless there will be numerous examples as there are numerous poorly cared for and poorly maintained cars - without the full facts it is speculative

Speculative - you mean like stating that Daves "photo IS an example" of a poorly maintained car?

And can we "speculate" that you're now saying the seals DO in fact fail, because of this bad maintenance?

Funny it only affects those seals, and not the others in similar conditions. The o rings in mine were so hard, that I could break them into many tiny pieces with my fingers - they no longer stretched, they were like hard brittle plastic. They were poked. If they were the right material, they'd last as long as other o rings in similar conditions- they don't though. The o rings don't even make the main seal - the "teflon" rings do, and the o rings provide the tension in the back of the telfon seal, and seal the back of it onto the piston. The go flat, hard and end up coming out oval shaped, flat inside and outside, instead of round section at all.

If these o rings were the correct material, they'd last as long as an oil seal or similar part in simlar conditions in an engine. I'd not expect the rear main seal to be as hard as these o rings after such a short time.

The biggest two benefits our M54 had from changing the seals was there was no stumble when opening the throttle with a cold engine and a substantial torque increase at low rpm.

The M54 retards the exhaust cam timing like crazy during cold starts for "emmisions" (to burn fuel in the exhaust and heat the cats - as stated in BMW literature), when the seals leak, the stumble is a common syptom, because it can't advance the exhaust cam fast enough to keep the engine smooth - it can cause really easy cold stalling, or really lurching takeoffs (for those of us with a proper gearbox). Rough cold idle is sometimes atributed to it as well. As the oil thins it can leak past the seals more, though the flow increases which helps to compensate to a degree. Some people have had seals go bad enough for a code to be logged, because it can't get the cams into the requested position. Changing the seals clears the code, so it obviously shows there is a possibility of them failing.

Like Andy says - why NOT do them. It's only a little bit more work than doing the rocker cover gasket (which was still soft on mine BTW - I reused it and there's no evidence of leaks from before or after and I did the seals maybe 25 to 30K ago). Would you leave the gearbox oil in, just because BMW say it's lifetime fill, or the fuel filter like they say on some new models?

[KwS 2372]

When i did the seals on my M52 and S50 vanos units, both ended up with smoother idle (the M52 idle was tragically lumpy when cold before i did the seals), and more down low power on the butt-ometer. Doing the anti rattle kit on the S50 also shut the unit up.

There are PLENTY of reports of improvements on this forum from people that have done the vanos seals. First hand experience, not some random off over in the states.

I got mine from Beisan, but i wont buy from them again. His response to me telling him his S50B30 guide is wrong was appalling, and i see he still has not updated the guide.

Please be aware that if you are doing seals on an S50B30, there are inaccuracies in the Beisan guide. I made this thread in order to help anyone with the rebuild. http://bimmersport.co.nz/topic/49996-diy-s50b30-vanos-rebuild-info/

[FIAT 131R 223]

One thing that seems to have been missed is that Raj from Beisan in his instructions says that the seals take a little while to settle down and from memory it's 300 miles or something similar so any test straight after installation wouldn't show an accurate performance indicator.

[hybrid 1039]

I have written software which can test for failed Vanos or not. I can even measure the actual variance and ms delay in pump pressure. I should probably finish it off for public consumption at some point.

[KwS 2372]

IIRC even GT1 can test the vanos to a degree, but all it really is is forcing the vanos to a certain position and making sure it stays there. Its really only testing the solenoids and maybe the piston seals. Keep in mind that BMW only made the solenoid seals replaceable, the actual vanos unit its self isnt meant to be serviceable, so the likelihood of BMW making a test to test the seals in the unit its self is slim. If its broke, bin it is their mantra.

3pedals, if you dont believe the advice you are being given, dont do your vanos seals. Simple.

[jaimzthedrummer 24]

Wow.

So... um... anyone interested in a group buy?

*ducks for cover*

I'm cool with sourcing the seals from Jon but will make contact to find out more about them. As for the rattle kit, looks like Beisan may still be the best option, so then the "well, I'm already paying for shipping" thing comes up.

p.s. Isn't the fact my VANOS quacks like a duck on startup fairly good evidence that something is bung? Just sayin'.

[KwS 2372]

do your chain tensioner if you havent already. I thought a few noises i had were the vanos but they remained until i did the tensioner.

[richard 384]

this is better than listening to the hasbin and yf out back arguing about whos doing the dishers tonight.

Fascinating.

PM sent

Edited February 4, 2015 by rich