MLee 35 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Hi guys, When refurbishing my S50B30 VANOS, I managed to wind the hex tip off of the splined shaft (a warning to all others - THIS SEEMS FAR TOO EASY TO DO). I've been hunting around UK/German wreckers for a couple of months now to find a replacement, with special thanks to Arron. It seems nobody wants to sell me a splined shaft assembly for the single VANOS separately, which I can understand. Options are to buy either a full cam gear set or an entire VANOS (both quite pricey). There is a chance that S50B32 shafts are available - but I'm not sure if the intake splined shaft is the same as on the S50B30. Otherwise, I'm warming up to the idea of machining a slot/tool shape in the end of the shaft - in lieu of the hex - to allow it to be held whilst the lock nut is fastened on reassembly. The perfectionist in me would like to replace it, however if there are no issues with the modification then it could be a much cheaper option than bringing in a whole new unit from Europe. Has anybody screwed this up before? Does anybody have any advice?Cheers, Liam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) the shafts have different PN between B30 and B32 which means they could be different. how, i wouldnt know. All you need to do is hold the shaft whilst you tighten the nut. The nut is a very low torque setting anyway, so it wouldnt take much, and the nut is deformed so its kinda like a locking nut. If you could cut a + in the end you could hold it with a screwdriver i guess. Not much room though. I do find it confusing as to how your nut was so tight, mine came off with minimal effort. Only other times ive heard of this is when people were trying to turn it the wrong way to undo. Edited February 10, 2016 by KwS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
euroriffic 594 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Any pics? Can't picture in my head what actual part. Can't take it to an engineers to get the machined out and something else inserted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) this part here, (i had wound the nut off a couple of turns before the first photo) Edited February 10, 2016 by KwS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) I was winding the nut counter-clockwise (whilst looking at the unit from the front) and placing slight counter pressure on the hex when it sheared off. Obviously too much counter pressure!? :beer: It certainly didn't release with the amount of torque I was expecting. Maybe a lack of finesse?? Nevertheless it put me in my place for days You're right, there isn't a lot of material - hence why I'm thinking along the lines of the screwdriver idea. Edited February 10, 2016 by MLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 That might be it, i dont recall applying much counter pressure at all, just enough to hold it in place. I seem to remember gently tapping the spanner with my palm to shock it off instead of applying pressure. Regardless, its broken now so nit much help. i dont recall, but is it possible to assemble the shaft and piston on the bench and put it into the vanos unit as one piece? Can you hold the back of the shaft whilst its in the piston? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 is it hollow? Could you so something horrible like drill a small hole and use a small easy out to hold it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 That is possible, but could be quite tricky to get the right placement of the helical gear - as drawing it in to the spline requires moving the camshaft through it's adjustment at the same time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 It is hollow! I would like to blame that for the reason why it spun off so easily, however I can't really blame that at all. That could work? However you can see why I would simply prefer to replace it. I suppose there could always be someone on here who might like to purchase a spare VANOS unit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Oh yeah i can see why you want to replace it, but atm you have a couple of options. Find a way to make it work, or buy a new one. If in finding a way to make it work you make it worse, youre buying a new one anyway lol. My best thought so far is an easy out. Its probably a terrible idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FIAT 131R 223 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 If you get it to Aaron Harris ask him to get Wayne to bring it down to me (Geoff) and I will compare it to the S54 B32. I have quite a few vanos bits here for the S54 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1896 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 You could tig weld an allen key to the end of it then cut it so it leaves a short hexagonal piece there, what diameter is that shaft? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 bloody small, the standard hex is 4mm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Thanks Geoff, however the S54 and S50 shafts are quite different (unfortunately - as there does seem to be quite a few S54 shafts about): (thanks for the pic Kelvin) These things are tiny, I'm no expert with metal but I can only imagine working on the end of that shaft would be like surgery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1896 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 Tricky but not impossible. I would probably want to do a test run on a spare before saying i could do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 There we go, I'm guessing you know your way around a welder Andrew?I'm leaning toward buying a replacement unit and keeping the solenoids as spares - I've heard they go for a pretty penny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 at the very least if you purchased a whole unit you could refurb it and sell it on and likely make your money back even without the helical gear. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 35 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 That's what I'm thinking too, definitely the best option. Cheers for the ideas guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aja540i 1896 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 There we go, I'm guessing you know your way around a welder Andrew? I'm leaning toward buying a replacement unit and keeping the solenoids as spares - I've heard they go for a pretty penny. I know which end gets hot! If you get a replacement and want me to have a go at fixing this one i can, worst case scenario i cant do it and you get it back still broken! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 my only worry about adding metal would be that itll upset the balance. its spinning at pretty high speeds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M3AN 4015 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) The hex is only to hold the shaft whilst you're doing up the nut... weld a tiny nut to the end of the shaft in its place, it doesn't even need to be perfectly straight. Weld it through the hole in the nut (4mm?). Edited February 11, 2016 by M3AN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 117 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 Mate just bust out the vice grips 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 why even weld on a nut? tack a bit of mig wire to it, hold it with vice grips whilst tightening the nut, and then cut the wire off when done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M3AN 4015 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 why even weld on a nut? tack a bit of mig wire to it, hold it with vice grips whilst tightening the nut, and then cut the wire off when done. It's the difference between an elegant job and a purely functional one, that's all. Each to their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
