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Gabe79

Talk to me about the E65...

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1 hour ago, Gabe79 said:

 

So to clarify what appears to be my misconception... Can I still wrench on my car and have the MBI still apply? I thought there was a criteria that it be regularly serviced by a licensed mechanic, for example...

Yes.

The MBI on my vehicle has a requirement of an annual service.  To gain a stamp in the book, the stuff you'd expect to be checked/maintained/replaced annually (or 15,000kms whichever is first) are checked/maintained/replaced.  You're not prevented from doing this stuff yourself; for example if you've done a cooling system service, when the agent checks the system, checks the antifreeze, and does a pressure test - it'll pass.  They are supposed to do an oil change and filter.  Check all belts, replace if necessary.  etc etc.

The stamp on the service book comes from 'any recognised service facility'.  In the event of any claim, this information (the stamps, and invoices indicating the servicing performed) will be required by the insurer.

It's pretty straightforward.  It's less "hands off, spend up largee", more "we need to be sure your vehicle is serviced regularly".

HTH

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As Olaf says.  You can wrench all you like on it, but you still have to get the book stamped by a mechanic, usually MTA approved.

Regular maintenance is not going to protect you the same as an MBI policy.  When the trans had a minor fault on my E500 where it would get stuck in a gear requiring an off/on cycle to come back it cost $7000, $5000 of which was the part from MB Germany.  You can't maintain your way out of issues like that.  There are all sorts of dumb parts on Euros that have retarded prices.  Some examples I can think of are M5 VANOS solenoids, at $1300 each and theres 4.  DSC pump on E87 130i, $2000.  Anything SMG...

Most of the times I have had MBI I haven't realized the value of it, but the one $7000 fault in the E500 is more than the cost of all the MBIs I have ever purchased.

 

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1 hour ago, Olaf said:

Yes.

The MBI on my vehicle has a requirement of an annual service.  To gain a stamp in the book, the stuff you'd expect to be checked/maintained/replaced annually (or 15,000kms whichever is first) are checked/maintained/replaced.  You're not prevented from doing this stuff yourself; for example if you've done a cooling system service, when the agent checks the system, checks the antifreeze, and does a pressure test - it'll pass.  They are supposed to do an oil change and filter.  Check all belts, replace if necessary.  etc etc.

The stamp on the service book comes from 'any recognised service facility'.  In the event of any claim, this information (the stamps, and invoices indicating the servicing performed) will be required by the insurer.

It's pretty straightforward.  It's less "hands off, spend up largee", more "we need to be sure your vehicle is serviced regularly".

HTH

Thank you for clarifying that. I do have a good friend who's MTA certified and runs his own shop. I should be able to work something out with him for stamps if I go that route.

17 minutes ago, GorGasm said:

As Olaf says.  You can wrench all you like on it, but you still have to get the book stamped by a mechanic, usually MTA approved.

Regular maintenance is not going to protect you the same as an MBI policy.  When the trans had a minor fault on my E500 where it would get stuck in a gear requiring an off/on cycle to come back it cost $7000, $5000 of which was the part from MB Germany.  You can't maintain your way out of issues like that.  There are all sorts of dumb parts on Euros that have retarded prices.  Some examples I can think of are M5 VANOS solenoids, at $1300 each and theres 4.  DSC pump on E87 130i, $2000.  Anything SMG...

Most of the times I have had MBI I haven't realized the value of it, but the one $7000 fault in the E500 is more than the cost of all the MBIs I have ever purchased.

 

Thank you for your perspective. I agree that whilst things may not pay off all the time, the long tail sometimes catches up and years of 'wasted' insurance can pay for itself in a day...

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The MBI Company will also require copies of service invoices if a claim is made and these must be GST invoices with labour, parts and and sundries itemized . Doing anything dodgy to make a claim can also result in a fraud prosecution

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23 hours ago, 3pedals said:

 

If you genuinely do preventative maintenance then an MBI is of no value.

I don't think this is true for the majority of high end Euros, or high end cars from any manufacturer. 

You can service them all you want, it won't stop, to name a few...

BMW SMG failure

Mercedes M156 head bolts, cam shafts & followers failing 

Mercedes 7G auto failure 

Mercedes M272 balancer shaft failure

VAG DSG issues

Land Rover/Range Rover TDV8 twin turbo failure and 5.0 V8 timing chain failure. 

 

All of these issues can cost 50-100% of the value of the vehicle to repair which will send a lot of owners broke if not covered by a comprehensive warranty/insurance. 

 

I was close to buying an M156 powered Mercedes - ML63 or E63 and knew about the head bolt issue - rang Autohaus in Auckland to see what I need to budget for head bolt replacement as preventative maintenance. I was then told about how the camshafts chew up as early as 80k and to budget at least $14k to do the whole lot... And there has been no fix for this issue so will need to do it again further down the track.

E60 M5 documented expensive failures have put me off one of them and I thought the E63 will be the next best thing but I'll just stick to two wheels for my speed fix.

 

To the OP, E65s can be had so cheap, is it worth bothering with a warranty and having to spent considerable dollars on servicing and repairs through an authorised garage for the off chance something catastrophic does go wrong?

 

A little off topic, what is the go with referring to working on a car as 'wrenching'. Some blokes been reading too many yank forums? Ten years as a diesel mech across Australia and NZ and Ive never heard anyone refer to it as that. Do y'all grab your wrenches outa the trunk before you pop the hood?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, coop said:

I don't think this is true for the majority of high end Euros, or high end cars from any manufacturer. 

All of these issues can cost 50-100% of the value of the vehicle to repair which will send a lot of owners broke if not covered by a comprehensive warranty/insurance.

A little off topic, what is the go with referring to working on a car as 'wrenching'. Some blokes been reading too many yank forums? Ten years as a diesel mech across Australia and NZ and Ive never heard anyone refer to it as that. Do y'all grab your wrenches outa the trunk before you pop the hood?

 

On average it is true, you are using the exceptions and implying it is the norm and you are using the residual value of the vehicle and comparing the cost of NEW parts  a $5000 pump is not 50 or 100% of the $140,000 new price tag.

We used to have a rule in Yacht Racing that maintenance is about 10% of the boat price and on our $2 mill boat the owner spent at least $200k a year - you can buy that boat for 300k now BUt the real maintenance bills if you want to go racing are at least $200k

As for the off topic comment - totally agree garbage language - red riding hood wore a hood but then the poms call the thong a bonnet thats equally lame.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, coop said:

To the OP, E65s can be had so cheap, is it worth bothering with a warranty and having to spent considerable dollars on servicing and repairs through an authorised garage for the off chance something catastrophic does go wrong?

I seem to be very poor at communication in writing. :)

I was saying one of the things that puts me off the E65 is that it seems more complex to work on (as compare to my M54b30 e39.) I could go the route of the MBI, and drop wrenching on my car altogether and just take it to an authorized garage (as I was under the impression this is what I had to do to maintain the MBI...) but to me, that is a major put off, as I like wrenching on my car. Some other folks have suggested that I could still wrench, and just get a certified mechanic to sign off that the work had been done. Keeping my parts receipts from FCP Euro as evidence I actually replaced parts, etc...

I am going to just go spend some time reading the Autosure website and see what their fine print says about wrenching on my own car...

28 minutes ago, coop said:

A little off topic, what is the go with referring to working on a car as 'wrenching'. Some blokes been reading too many yank forums? Ten years as a diesel mech across Australia and NZ and Ive never heard anyone refer to it as that. Do y'all grab your wrenches outa the trunk before you pop the hood?

I do read American forums. I also happen to be American. :)

 

3 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

As for the off topic comment - totally agree garbage language - red riding hood wore a hood but then the poms call the thong a bonnet thats equally lame.

It's a hood. You're just wrong. There is also a trunk. :)

Edited by Gabe79
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29 minutes ago, Gabe79 said:

I seem to be very poor at communication in writing. :)

 

That could be because you continue to use  american vernacular and this is not america-  some local idiomatic customs for you:

people wear trunks to go swimming or pack the belongings in for long sea voyages

hoods are head wear or undesirables in your neigbourhood  not be confused with the other vernacular of a hood actually referring to  the "neighbour-hood but thats some elses vernacular that  some use.  

 A tinnie is a boat,  barbie is not a doll but an essential cooking appliance, lucking out is Not getting what you intended (where as in american  vernacula I believe lucking out is a win?? )

As some once said "when in Rome shout at them louder,  they will understand, we ARE english !!c "

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

On average it is true, you are using the exceptions and implying it is the norm and you are using the residual value of the vehicle and comparing the cost of NEW parts  a $5000 pump is not 50 or 100% of the $140,000 new price tag.

We used to have a rule in Yacht Racing that maintenance is about 10% of the boat price and on our $2 mill boat the owner spent at least $200k a year - you can buy that boat for 300k now BUt the real maintenance bills if you want to go racing are at least $200k

As for the off topic comment - totally agree garbage language - red riding hood wore a hood but then the poms call the thong a bonnet thats equally lame.

 

 

 

 

I guess it goes on a case by case basis - if intending to keep the car for a year or so then maybe no need? In any case on a used high end tech loaded car over 100,000km and coming up or over ten years old it is quite a gamble to take imo. 

No one will be paying six figures for an E60 M5 in2018. As you probably know they can be had for $20k. Just say there is vanos or SMG dramas in the period of ownership over three years (possible). Doesn’t look like such a cheap car after all. Same with my example above of the W211 E63.

 

op perhaps if you want to work on your own gear invest $2k or so and buy the software off eBay compete with Dell 630 or Panasonic toughbook laptop? Then you’ll have no dramas owning more modern complex BMWs further down the track... could also use it for cashies etc (I have done the same with Mercedes xentry C4 software and laptop).

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1 minute ago, coop said:

op perhaps if you want to work on your own gear invest $2k or so and buy the software off eBay compete with Dell 630 or Panasonic toughbook laptop? Then you’ll have no dramas owning more modern complex BMWs further down the track... could also use it for cashies etc (I have done the same with Mercedes xentry C4 software and laptop).

I have the software for the E39/46/38(? never tried E38, I assume same software) and I have software that purports to support newer cars too, I just have never tried. I do have a laptop just for car software stuff.

Makes me wonder what additional software I might need for the E65, if any.

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E65 = Ghetto Cruiser.  Usually sporting terrible 22+" wheels.  Tints so dark you can't see out let alone see in.

The only people who buy them in the states are the people who can't afford to run them.

They litter Facebook Market place.  There is a 02 one on there for $1500 at the moment.  Usual stuffed tranny.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/120952045325359

There is even an 08 750il on there for $6000.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/169567530333687

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4 hours ago, coop said:

I guess it goes on a case by case basis - if intending to keep the car for a year or so then maybe no need? In any case on a used high end tech loaded car over 100,000km and coming up or over ten years old it is quite a gamble to take imo. 

 

Totally agree - thats why I avoid autos novelty and trinket loaded cars they are just a bad investnment 

The rest is just wrong you are making the same comparison - new parts prices against depreciated vehicle value - it doesn't work because the parts prices are based on the new car price. 

 I spent $4 grand on a clutch in my supposedly  $10-15 k X5 was that a bad investment - hell no - I have another 250,000 km to go in one of the last Manual X5's ever made and I don't have to fork out $40 grand for a later model that is less reliable 

 

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4 hours ago, Driftit said:

E65 = Ghetto Cruiser.  Usually sporting terrible 22+" wheels.  Tints so dark you can't see out let alone see in.

The only people who buy them in the states are the people who can't afford to run them.

They litter Facebook Market place.  There is a 02 one on there for $1500 at the moment.  Usual stuffed tranny.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/120952045325359

There is even an 08 750il on there for $6000.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/169567530333687

This doesn't add up. Not enough bling. Them rims need to be gold plated to be truly Ghetto!

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35 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Totally agree - thats why I avoid autos novelty and trinket loaded cars they are just a bad investnment 

The rest is just wrong you are making the same comparison - new parts prices against depreciated vehicle value - it doesn't work because the parts prices are based on the new car price. 

 I spent $4 grand on a clutch in my supposedly  $10-15 k X5 was that a bad investment - hell no - I have another 250,000 km to go in one of the last Manual X5's ever made and I don't have to fork out $40 grand for a later model that is less reliable 

 

Sorry but it is a valid comparison because the reality of it, is if a component on one of these aging cars fails, then new parts will have to be fitted to the car (would you bother to fit a second hand turbo, or oil cooler, or timing chain kit, if you could find one? Regardless of OEM or aftermarket equalivent, it still won’t be cheap), and you’re forgetting the cost of labour which can sometimes make up most of the repair cost). 

Someone who purchases a comprehensive warranty/insurance applicable to the car wouldn’t have to worry about this. 

 

Your example of the X5 is fine but someone who has to fork out $14k for e63/c63 camshaft & followers or $12k for an E60 SMG pump probably won’t see it as such an investment haha. 

 

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Agree with coop as you can't maintain your way out of a failure. 

It's all about risk mitigation.  Maintenance is one form, MBI is another, either one is good but both is better.

 

 

 

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Sure but what you are doing again is using the extremes - camshafts and followers  in most other cars are not  $14 grand and the root cause of failure is likely to be a maintenance issue.

The SMG pump is likely to be design related but that is a risk of that type of transmission system as are the problems with DCT types - buy them and take the risk -- or as we all basically agree you could mitigate it ( MBI) BUT  you could also choose to eliminate the risk by not buying SMG / DCT  type cars therefore it is not a risk you have to manage. 

If we took  a risk based approach to buying a vehicle rather than an emotional one half the cars on planet would have died in gestation and manufacturers would be less inclined to use the buying public as crash test dummies. 

The issue was raised about the electronic complexity of the car - my key  point was and still is the electronics are unlikley to be the problem,  mechanicals and poorly maintained mechanicals are. 

And on the point of you can't maintain your way out of failure - not 100%  but you can do a sh*t load better than average, we do it at work with trucks doing 2-300,000 km per year they don't break down and some of them are well over 3,000,000 km without a breakdown. 

Edited by 3pedals

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When I started this thread, I had some assumptions in place, some seem to be correct, some not so much.

I had thought that a MBI would mean I wouldn't be able to maintain the car myself. - Reading the autosure brochure, this seems to be correct. They want repairs to be conducted by an "Authorized Repair Facility" which they define as "Authorised Repair Facility: Repairs must be undertaken by an Autosure approved repairer." They do proceed to discuss this further:

Quote

"SERVICING YOUR VEHICLE You are required to keep your vehicle serviced at your cost to ensure the cover under this policy remains in place. You may have your vehicle serviced at any recognised Service Facility. Vehicles must be serviced within the following distance or time period, whichever comes first, from the date of purchase of the vehicle: Petrol powered vehicles must be serviced every 15,000 km or 12 months Diesel powered vehicles must be serviced every 10,000 km or 12 months"

I had thought the E65 would be more mechanically complex than the E39 to work on. Perhaps that isn't entirely correct. 

I had thought the E65 would be electronically more complex. This seems to be correct, however, perhaps not relevant, since this isn't the thing that goes bad on these.

I'm left with the impression these might actually be quite decent cars for hauling the family around over longer distances. I am not a 'spirited driver' and in some ways, the 530i Msport is wasted on me. Maybe the E65 would be nicer, I might go test drive a couple and see how they feel.

I am still left wondering about the boot/storage space. Will it be markedly different than the E39 sedan? Seems like not so much, but I'd have to check. The alternative here being an E39 Touring, or maybe an E61? 

 

EDIT: Am I correct in assuming that this same discussion applies to the E61? Or is that a whole different kettle of fish?

Edited by Gabe79

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An E60 is a gnats bigger than an E39 but the E65 is about 100mm longer between the axles and 200mm longer overall  the boot space in the E39 is bigger than the E53 (X5) so absolute vehicle size  is not the best gause of capacity and spaciousness 

Best you go and taunt the dealers and drive a few cars

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So uh... drove by the E65 today with my wife in the car, and mentioned the idea to her...

"What? That?! No, it's ugly. Looks like a bad Honda!" (I don't know where this sudden hatred of Honda comes from...) but there goes that idea. E39/61 Touring might be the ticket, although some plans afoot and if all goes well, I will simultaneously have a large garage, and a lack of need for two cars. <_<

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2 minutes ago, qube said:

Thanks! Hadn't seen that.

I'm fairly sure I've been in this car. It's been for sale for a looong time. Nigh on a year now. They might have fixed the massive oil leak it had when I saw it. It left a nice little puddle in the parking lot when I saw it. Curious what other work they might have done.

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On 1/03/2018 at 5:26 PM, 3pedals said:

Sure but what you are doing again is using the extremes - camshafts and followers  in most other cars are not  $14 grand and the root cause of failure is likely to be a maintenance issue.

The SMG pump is likely to be design related but that is a risk of that type of transmission system as are the problems with DCT types - buy them and take the risk -- or as we all basically agree you could mitigate it ( MBI) BUT  you could also choose to eliminate the risk by not buying SMG / DCT  type cars therefore it is not a risk you have to manage. 

If we took  a risk based approach to buying a vehicle rather than an emotional one half the cars on planet would have died in gestation and manufacturers would be less inclined to use the buying public as crash test dummies. 

The issue was raised about the electronic complexity of the car - my key  point was and still is the electronics are unlikley to be the problem,  mechanicals and poorly maintained mechanicals are. 

And on the point of you can't maintain your way out of failure - not 100%  but you can do a sh*t load better than average, we do it at work with trucks doing 2-300,000 km per year they don't break down and some of them are well over 3,000,000 km without a breakdown. 

how many cars of that age need cams and followers or big end bearings or whatever so I'd call that an extreme. To purchase a BMW without an MBI is a lottery or gamble in anyones book. people will always gamble, some win too.

the problem with risk based buying is you don't know the risk until heaps of people have bought and discovered the issue by which time its too late. Second hand buyers get to research and learn from others misfortunes or get a repaired model with the bugs ironed out once parts have been recalled and swopped. you'd never consider a giulia based on that theory

with the amount of floods and other overseas issues previous Water ingress is a real unknown risk when buying an import. Why electronics are on the floor under carpet or tucked into boot wells is still beyond me. there has to be a better location

if everyone bought based on risk the whole world would be driving toyotas based on any conversation with someone who manages fleet vehicles will tell you. To be fair other brands are now cutting into those glowing records of past fleet ownerships

to say some of your trucks are doing 3,000,00km doesn't prove that maintenance is working and your beating the average, it may well be but it may also be brand specific. Your not proving that owning a fleet of Isuzus is more reliable than a fleet of kenwoods and "the some" are the ones that the boss is concerned with. Why are they off road and for how long

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9 hours ago, kwhelan said:

Your not proving that owning a fleet of Isuzus is more reliable than a fleet of kenwoods and "the some" are the ones that the boss is concerned with. Why are they off road and for how long

We don't operate cake mixers - suggest you read the post slower and adjust the inclination of your location - you might come up with some insight rather than the dross you have spurted out above. 

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1 hour ago, 3pedals said:

We don't operate cake mixers - suggest you read the post slower and adjust the inclination of your location - you might come up with some insight rather than the dross you have spurted out above. 

haha gotta love autocorrect and failure to proof read doh

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21 hours ago, kwhelan said:

with the amount of floods and other overseas issues previous Water ingress is a real unknown risk when buying an import. Why electronics are on the floor under carpet or tucked into boot wells is still beyond me. there has to be a better location

 

I'd worry more about that on NZ new - at least the import has to pass compliance, NZ new just has to pass a WOF - plenty of dodgy cars on NZ roads after "repairs"! Or a trip down 90 mile beach.

In NZ, it's only de-reged if it was water damaged and insurance claimed. If insurance can't be claimed, it's the hose, a dehumidifier for a week, then onto Trademe, or (more likely) Turners. :lol:

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