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kwhelan

Road Toll Not working

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As of Friday, 125 compared to 107 last year , and for 12 months to today its 398 compared to 329.

we obviously had few lucky low years and things were maybe skewed into thinking they had it solved. Time to get rid of some of the sillyness like 3km holiday limits and actually makes some changes that work. Not that were ever going to achieve miracles on our simple 2 lane overcrowded highways. Compulsory insurance would be a start and more cops on roads. Last 12 months Ive driven up and down north island and barely seen a cop. Can't be just luck. The fear of a ticket is the only thing that keeps my speed in check to be completely honest.

ex.Over Xmas and new year went HB to Wanganui Taranaki Taupo and home saw one cop going in other direction and one speed camera. I guess because they were all on leave after doing allnighters on the 23/24 Dec handing out lollies and things to xmas travellers.

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Speeding, mate... It's all about the speed. Or so we are continually told.

Of course, placing wire strand barriers on either side of the highway, reducing available space for vehicles who have stopped for any reason to get away from the carriageway, won't be a factor. Even the police are up in arms about this - when they are pulling speeding motorists, they now place themselves, the person they are stopping, and other road users at increased risk. Some f%&#wit at a council obviously thought this was a good idea.

Poor driving standards (which aren't addressed in any way whatsoever) remain the biggest issue on NZ roads. That's too hard though, so let's go after people who are speeding instead.

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Drivers are the issue. There are some inept numpties on the roads. I do 1500km a week, I seen some sh*t :D

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Yes incompetency is rampant across the NZ driving public.  Tailgating is my biggest angst...  if I'm doing 103 I don't expect someone to be 5m off my back bumper... they are though, and they are always the younger ones, they have simply no idea of the danger they are putting everyone in - stupid.  NZ society is dumbing down and an increase in road deaths comes as absolutely no surprise and is only one symptom of many...

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Prime candidates for seem to be SUVs, and from my sample while driving: everyone who drives a new ford ranger :D

Judging from the sample set "whos crashed into me and neighbours fence in the last 12 months" 1x Suzuki Swift, 1x Mitzi Canter Truck, 1x Vt Holden, 2x Honda Odyssey, 1x  Honda Accord....

After the first few crashes, AT put in a new 50kmh sign. The Suzuki actually crashed into it, and it did slow the car down before it hit the fence, so good job there. 

Edited by Jacko
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There really is no fix-all for reducing the road toll. But they could start with a look at the root cause of fatal accidents and then actually publish the results. But i'm guessing that wouldn't actually sit well with the various lobby groups out there that push their own particular "solution'

But my pet peeve:  Few months back, i drove from Akl to Wgtn, significant stretches we were trucking along at 80-90... until we hit the passing lanes, then miraculously those car's at the front of the queue that didn't seem capable of breaking 85 up a hill were suddenly able to do 110+ WTF ?!?!  Now i took it mostly in my stride, but i saw a few road warriors letting loose to get past so they could catch up to the next queue 5 mins further down the road.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jacko said:

Prime candidates for seem to be SUVs, and from my sample while driving: everyone who drives a new ford ranger :D

Judging from the sample set "whos crashed into me and neighbours fence in the last 12 months" 1x Suzuki Swift, 1x Mitzi Canter Truck, 1x Vt Holden, 2x Honda Odyssey, 1x  Honda Accord....

After the first few crashes, AT put in a new 50kmh sign. The Suzuki actually crashed into it, and it did slow the car down before it hit the fence, so good job there. 

to be fair tho those arn't really the deaths, not sure of stats but I would assume most are on the open road, the tragic ones are either one off where the car left the road, tired, drunk or incompetent or are some sort of headon where somebody has crossed the white line involving many vehicles.

The cops need to get their act together over the accidents too, spend hours looking for all the evidence as to whose fault it was including shutting roads or lanes for 12-24 hrs sometimes like they did on the desert road over easter. I n Europe the focus is on getting the traffic moving again quickly. get the vehicles off the road, sweep up and get traffic flowing. If your dead your dead no court case is going to solve that not that their seems to be ever much done with all the evidence gathered anyway.

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2 hours ago, Buklemaschu said:

There really is no fix-all for reducing the road toll. But they could start with a look at the root cause of fatal accidents and then actually publish the results. But i'm guessing that wouldn't actually sit well with the various lobby groups out there that push their own particular "solution'

But my pet peeve:  Few months back, i drove from Akl to Wgtn, significant stretches we were trucking along at 80-90... until we hit the passing lanes, then miraculously those car's at the front of the queue that didn't seem capable of breaking 85 up a hill were suddenly able to do 110+ WTF ?!?!  Now i took it mostly in my stride, but i saw a few road warriors letting loose to get past so they could catch up to the next queue 5 mins further down the road.

 

 

I'm guilty of still passing those guys who speed up then, but I prefer to have a clear road rather than follow some idiot who rides the brakes on every corner or whatever. I know you catch the next group and supposedly you don't get there any faster, I dispute that, but the bits where the road is clear are so much more enjoyable and you can drive smoother by judging rises, decents corner speeds etc rather than constantly having to adjust because of others not anticipating and reading the road

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Always wonder how the road toll looks over time expressed as a per capita number. 

Edited by NZ BMW

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NZ roads are not the best or easiest to drive on, as such the education and hence skills need to be higher than most countries.

I come across an ever increasing number of drivers on the road that have basic to non-existent driving skills.

The skills of many young drivers and dare I say it, new to NZ drivers are particularly bad.

Just because someone can drive in another country, different roads, signs, side of road / car does not mean they have the skills for NZ.

Until more effort is put into driver education, across all groups, the road toll will continue to rise with more cars driving more kms on the roads.

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Our highways and country roads are no different than those in rural France, Spain and most of Europe - can't comment about the U.S becase Ive never driven there. Try driving in Finland or Sweden in the snow on a  shitty country road makes ours look like a cake walk - why don't they crash? 

You are more on the money about skill set most drivers don't have a broad skill set and certainly don't know how to read the road, adapt their driving  and have a high level of control over a car because all they have ever done is follow some one else in  traffic in an auto . Once there is no car in front and fewer signs they simpl way out their depth , its not just foreigners  90% of Nzers can't drive for sh*t. 

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The Government cancelling $5Billion of roading improvements is certainly not going to help.

 

Nor is their 'zero road toll target'.

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1 hour ago, zero said:

Nor is their 'zero road toll target'.

Oh cummon, get real. Setting that goal is the solution we have been missing all these years. All we need now is an inspirational slogan- Let's do this! :rolleyes::lol:

Edited by Young Thrash Driver
Sarcasm, if you missed it
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1 hour ago, 3pedals said:

Our highways and country roads are no different than those in rural France, Spain and most of Europe - can't comment about the U.S becase Ive never driven there. Try driving in Finland or Sweden in the snow on a  shitty country road makes ours look like a cake walk - why don't they crash? 

Your comparison between roads in rural Europe v NZ is way off, major "highways" in NZ are with only a few exceptions, poorly surfaced, poorly maintained, very twisty, much hillier, un-lit and single carriageway. Even minor roads, well off the beaten track, in Europe have bridges and tunnels so they can be relatively straight and level. Older, small towns and villages can be more of a challenge with narrow streets and confusing junction layouts and road rules. NZ is slightly better off in this respect as the urban development is much more recent and most town planning has accommodated the motor vehicle. However, as the traffic speeds are relatively low in these areas, the size of the accidents are smaller and don't contribute so much to the road toll.

The roads in Sweden were amongst some of the best I have ever driven on, even well up to the north of the country away from the major population centres. Why do they not crash on them in the snow... because of the level of driver training I would suggest?

Having just been given an NZ licence for being able to answer 30 multiple-guess questions on the road code, I have no idea how much of the driver testing in NZ takes place on the "open road" or highways. Is it like the UK used to be where the test is all in and around town, with no motorway training or testing? As you allude to, this is the more difficult driving situation, higher speeds, fewer sign posts, etc. I used to think those big yellow "cornering speed" signs were a good idea, until I got a decent car and realised you can go round them at much higher speeds without detriment to you or your passengers. Perhaps more training in these driving situations would be a step to reducing the numbers?

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I wonder how much of it is more modern cars not scaring the sh*t out of you when doing medium level dumb ideas, stability control, slushboxes etc combined with a NVH levels that allow you to play on your phone in total comfort? 

Kinda similar train of thought to that roading experiment where they got rid of all the speed limits, and the accident rate dropped as drivers got a lot more aware and cautious about what they, and everyone else, was doing. 

Wonder what the accident rate world wide is doing?

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41 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

 minor roads, well off the beaten track, Older, small towns and villages can be more of a challenge with narrow streets and confusing junction layouts and road rules. NZ is slightly better off in this respect as the urban development is much more recent and most town planning has accommodated the motor vehicle. Utter crap we drove at 140kmh to 170 kmh  on a dual carrageway in rural France it was un-lit  windy and poorly surfaced - exactly how you describe NZ roads. BUT we stayed in ou r lane and didn't cut corners.  The difference is there are a lot more good roads in france and europe  ( and a lot more bad road - you just have to go further from town to get to them , but to re- iterate the point with a bit more emphasis

Our shitty rural roads are just the same as shitty rural roads any where and people in NZ France or any where elese who have never driven on these more complex roads simply don't have the skills . Thats all it is, nothing more our roads are not different , they are not dangerous they are just rural roads-.  

... because of the level of driver training I would suggest?

Having just been given an NZ licence for being able to answer 30 multiple-guess questions on the road code, I have no idea how much of the driver testing in NZ takes place on the "open road" or highways. Is it like the UK used to be where the test is all in and around town, with no motorway training or testing? As you allude to, this is the more difficult driving situation, higher speeds, fewer sign posts, etc. I used to think those big yellow "cornering speed" signs were a good idea, until I got a decent car and realised you can go round them at much higher speeds without detriment to you or your passengers. Perhaps more training in these driving situations would be a step to reducing the numbers?

The big yellow signs are part of the problem along with the stupid chevrons, instead of reading the road people are reading the signs - no sign - no idea what to why - because they have no driving skills because we like many other don't teach them any more 

 

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2 hours ago, 3pedals said:

Our highways and country roads are no different than those in rural France, Spain and most of Europe - can't comment about the U.S becase Ive never driven there. Try driving in Finland or Sweden in the snow on a  shitty country road makes ours look like a cake walk - why don't they crash? 

You are more on the money about skill set most drivers don't have a broad skill set and certainly don't know how to read the road, adapt their driving  and have a high level of control over a car because all they have ever done is follow some one else in  traffic in an auto . Once there is no car in front and fewer signs they simpl way out their depth , its not just foreigners  90% of Nzers can't drive for sh*t. 

What are Hollands roads like?

(I seem to remember you saying you were Dutch?)

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12 hours ago, gjm said:

Speeding, mate... It's all about the speed. Or so we are continually told.

Of course, placing wire strand barriers on either side of the highway, reducing available space for vehicles who have stopped for any reason to get away from the carriageway, won't be a factor. Even the police are up in arms about this - when they are pulling speeding motorists, they now place themselves, the person they are stopping, and other road users at increased risk. Some f%&#wit at a council obviously thought this was a good idea.

Poor driving standards (which aren't addressed in any way whatsoever) remain the biggest issue on NZ roads. That's too hard though, so let's go after people who are speeding instead.

Yup the wire side barriers - which muppet in NZTA (or whatever they call themselves) thought this one up? Might be a fine on the new expressways where there is a wide runoff, but a section of SH 3 north of Te Awamutu is f####en ridiculous for the above reasons.

I am now attending AA call outs on the said road - car stopped, tyre changes etc. It can be bloody unnerving, adding to - not many cars bother to even slow to go past. Trucks & busses do though. Funny that - good experienced drivers.

When this "upgrade" was first mooted by the authorities. there was plenty of anger with locals. Some "mouth piece" for the said authority put their reasoning in the local rag - to stop vehicles "spearing off the road"  Worst case scenario was through a fence into a paddock!

As is agreed on here - incompetent driving is at fault.

I will say though, my son got his licence mid last year. There is a pretty thorough practical test to complete. My hope is these kids are going to gain some decent skill level as time goes on.

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10 hours ago, 3pedals said:

The big yellow signs are part of the problem along with the stupid chevrons, instead of reading the road people are reading the signs - no sign - no idea what to why - because they have no driving skills because we like many other don't teach them any more 

 

wow no "spouting the usual dross" or other sarcastic comments ,fantastic keep it up

Not sure you could prove the corner speed suggested signs are the cause, I never really take any notice of them except the big ones with multiple chevrons that really jump out which indicates hey theres a largely unseen tightening of this bend and people keep sliding off here so you better slow down mate. I don't think majority of deaths are by being slightly above or below the limit except when they on a space saver tyre or some other crappy vehicle, Intersections are bad and when you have them and people backing out of their driveways directly onto SH1 like in levin. GPS is maybe a factor here too

also overseas roads are no comparison, you don't know the percentages of who travels them per head of population, what their road deaths are, most of them are probably 80% motorway and a few locals who travel their local side roads where we are exactly the opposite, people coming 35 minutes down a country road to town for school/work everyday and on motorway at holiday time when we go to visit Gran. Theres kids in Hawkes Bay that have never seen a motorway.You can spend 12 months in taranaki,hawkes bay , east coast, wairarapa, northland etc etc and never drive one yet they seem to be the roads people die on most possibly more deaths than Auckland district with 1.5 million

as for not teaching them ,when has the driving test been any better, its damn harder now than it ever was, our parents just turned up after driving a tractor round the farm and were given them.mine was a joke too,defensive driving courses were optional or court forced but they were far more useful than the license test was, probably made sense and stuck in minds of many that would never have realised otherwise

I guess logically its foolhardy to think you can grow from 3 million to nearly 5 on same roads and the deaths have to go up statistically

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Ha I was wrong about Auckland

check out the 60+ column

ban them theres 100 lives saved;)

 

 

Road death statistics

New Zealand road death toll statistics covering road fatalities and fatal crashes, updated daily.

 

 

Road death statistics

Road fatalities in New Zealand as at Friday, 20 April 2018 *

  Year from 1 Jan 12 months to 20/04
2017 2018 2017 2018
Casualty Types:
 
 
 
 
Drivers
56
61
168
200
Passengers
25
28
73
85
Motor Cycle Riders
7
22
41
59
Motor Cycle Pillions
-
2
2
3
Pedestrians
13
10
33
37
Pedal Cyclists
6
1
9
13
Other
-
1
3
1
Casualty Ages:
 
 
 
 
0-14 yrs
4
4
13
13
15-19 yrs
9
13
35
32
20-24 yrs
19
16
50
48
25-39 yrs
25
29
70
107
40-59 yrs
25
27
87
94
60 + yrs
24
36
73
104
unknown
1
-
1
-
Total Killed During:
 
 
 
 
January
32
36
 
 
February
28
29
 
 
March
32
41
 
 
April
15
19
 
 
May
-
-
 
 
June
-
-
 
 
July
-
-
 
 
August
-
-
 
 
September
-
-
 
 
October
-
-
 
 
November
-
-
 
 
December
-
-
 
 
Total
107 
125 
329 
398  

Fatal road crashes in New Zealand as at Friday, 20 April 2018 *

  Year from 1 Jan 12 months to 20/04
2017 2018 2017 2018
Total Crashes During:
 
 
 
 
January
29
35
 
 
February
26
25
 
 
March
27
34
 
 
April
15
15
 
 
May
-
-
 
 
June
-
-
 
 
July
-
-
 
 
August
-
-
 
 
September
-
-
 
 
October
-
-
 
 
November
-
-
 
 
December
-
-
 
 
Total
97 
109 
290 
356  

Weekly road deaths update by Local Government Region as at midnight Thursday, 19 April 2018 *

Local Government Region 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018
Northland
5
7
10
9
17
Auckland
10
18
12
16
16
Waikato
23
24
26
18
28
Bay of Plenty
12
9
4
6
9
Gisborne & Hawkes Bay
3
5
6
7
4
Taranaki
3
2
5
1
-
Manawatu / Wanganui
11
10
8
11
11
Wellington
1
1
5
2
3
Nelson / Marlborough
2
1
4
5
5
West Coast
2
2
2
1
2
Canterbury
8
13
10
15
21
Otago
3
7
6
9
6
Southland
2
1
7
7
3
Total
85 
100 
105 
107 
125  


More detailed data from the Ministry of Transport

* Running total

Source: Research & Statistics, Ministry of Transport

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What is going on in Waikato? How can there be more road deaths there than anywhere else, even Auckland.

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3Pedals, due to things like Health & Safety coupled with a "where there's blame there's a claim" mentality in the UK, Europe and much of the rest of the world which hasn't managed to pervade the Kiwi "she'll be right mate" attitude the design of roads, junctions, safety barriers, etc. are much more advanced across the board. Pot holes in roads get fixed very quickly otherwise someone will have an accident and sue the relevant authority for not fixing the issue. In NZ it seems to be a case of put some paint on the road to fool people into thinking it's going to get fixed.

Safety barriers are one of the biggest and most noticeable differences, any road with a steep drop off from either side will have proper steel and concrete barriers, so that should a car not make the corner it doesn't drop from a great height making a small accident into a much more serious one. Most NZ roads have NO barriers, or a spindly wooden fence which couldn't stop an empty push chair from going over the edge. No to mention the great idea of having drains and ditches at the side of the road, so should you move a few inches off the black stuff you are into a serious situation.

End result? Small errors of judgment end up in major accidents, there is much less or even no margin for error.

@Jacko, there have been a number of studies (mostly in the USofA) that have looked into why all the modern developments in car safety, from seat belts to ABS to airbags, collision avoidance systems, etc. have not resulted in reductions in the number of accidents and deaths. The broad conclusion of most has been that the safer the driver is made to feel, the more dangerous their driving becomes, either due to complacency, inattentiveness or driving faster / closer, etc. Perhaps the answer is to remove all the things that make driving easier as you say?

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cellphones ,

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Waikato covers quite a large area with lots of road variation, plenty of poor roads around, lots of rural areas etc. Auckland is just numbers game but im sure deaths are kept down by the shear traffic volume keeping you safe in gridlock.

The consequence of technology is the dumbing down of everything

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