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325_driver

Cooked Motor Question

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Was hoping for some opinions / advice before I consider the rebuilding motor on a daily runner of mine.

Not on the 330ci (THANK GOD)

Car was driven with no coolant (yes, no coolant! - please don't ask how this happened! lol) probably 1km down the road, and it died.

Now the car will turn, but not fire - I haven't yet tested compression on cylinders but I suspect head gasket related, and maybe even a warped head,

In any one's opinion how likely it is that I cooked the bottom end?

I would like to rebuild the current motor if possible - because if i buy another motor i'll probably tear that apart and rebuild it. (probably going to set me back $800-$1000 getting a new motor)

 

Given the situation, should i not risk it and just scrap the head/block entirely and just start again?

Just looking for some opinions before i start ripping head off and taking it to the automotive re-conditioners to check it out.

 

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What engine?

 

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5 minutes ago, zero said:

What engine?

 

Backtop Toyota 4age - I've been trying so hard to find a BMW run about XD 

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So it's just not firing? 1 kilometer from cold? The coolant wouldn't even be a factor over that distance. Heck, you could probably run it with no oil over that distance and not do permanent damage (perhaps - don't try this).

And it's a Toyota.

Maybe just fill up the washer bottle and give the bumper a kick?

 

Edited by M3AN
  • Haha 3

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i've tried for a few days now - crank crank crank nothing!

i thought an engine could only really do 3-4 minutes no coolant before bad news?

You've given me some optimism now mate!

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If your car overheats for 4 or 5 minutes (or even less) you're looking at damage, the actual amount of coolant you have is irrelevant, as long as your engine doesn't overheat you can have zero coolant. I must note though, coolant is very important and without the correct amount an engine can overheat very quickly.

If it's cranking and not firing then it's likely spark or fuel, difficult to diagnose from afar. It's unlikely to be a major job but you need a mechanic to take a look.

 

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It must be a coincidence, surely. Unless you took 10 minutes to cover that 1km, i cant imagine it got that hot. You need to do some diagnosing to find out if it has spark and fuel or not. IIRC they have a diagnostic connector under the bonnet that you can bridge a couple of pins and it will trigger the CEL to flash codes.

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5 minutes ago, KwS said:

It must be a coincidence, surely. Unless you took 10 minutes to cover that 1km, i cant imagine it got that hot. You need to do some diagnosing to find out if it has spark and fuel or not. IIRC they have a diagnostic connector under the bonnet that you can bridge a couple of pins and it will trigger the CEL to flash codes.

Well the brother dropped the car off from a trailer - he had it running for a few minutes i would say

I jump started it and had it running for 3-4 minutes - i saw the temp gauge was maybe 1/3 of the way up when i left the drive way

2 minutes down the road - accelerated the car a bit , and then i heard a slight / rattle top end (nearly like a lifter / tappet noise) - and it died. now crank crank and nothing.

 

I guess this will be a good story to inform everyone else with, on how much this damage could have done - so if anyone was thinking about it - not to drive without coolant ... lol or where the limit is

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lol - this will be a terrible story about 'how much damage could be done' - you've not described anything that could remotely hurt one of the most durable engines man has ever made.

 

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Do you know how to do a compression test yourself?

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Keep in mind that with most, if not all, temp sensors that drive the gauges, they require LIQUID to read anything. If there is no liquid passing the sensor, they will tend to read cold.

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I know - and what disturbs me the most about this - is how this even happened - since everyone deserves a good laugh, here we go

First of all - i'm not the kind of person to carelessly overlook whether or not the radiator has coolant in it

This is the beginning of my run-about car journey and it's not going too well! (luckily i actually wanted to rebuild the motor anyway ... lol)

- Car advertised was stated "new water pump, cam belt etc runs fine, has seized / sticky lifter would recommend new engine or head" - ok cool i thought, i'll just run it for a bit and rebuild - price next to nothing ... 

- went and picked up the car. started the car, no issues, no noises etc - was at a mechanic workshop, was a very tidy shop, very high quality performance cars and all, the toyota looked out of place - looked like they were busy fixing things on it , and the owner basically said, it's not worth you fixing the lifter.

- put the car on the trailer, dropped it off to my brothers - he was going to have a look over it, make sure it's all running properly

- brother (a mechanic) looked over it, and noticed the bottom timing covers weren't on, and was going to have to take the crank pulley off and belts just to put the covers back on.

- a few days later the car arrived out front of the house - and brother quickly disapeared

- i texted him a few times asking if it's all good? no response, kept msging no response

-----------------

fast forward to me jump starting the car (battery was flat)

checked behind the wheel arch - could see the timing belt - strange, thought he was going to work on it

still no response - thought, my brothers a mechanic, usually he would tell me if something obvious i needed to know, always has in the past (let alone the mechanic i picked it up from!)

chucked some slippers on - quick drive down the road and splat

ended up having to run 1km in the dark - in slippers to grab the car to tow it 

no tow rope at home - had to get innovative with a 30m long rope - folded it in half several times, platted it together, looped various knots.

towed the car home very slowly, no lights, or even hazards - battery was dead flat ...

i ask my brother ? what the hell is going on - car died on me, is there something wrong with it

he finally responds - yeah, no water in the radiator (turns out him and his wife were having a heated argument) lol

- so i can assume that the mechanic that was working on it , stopped work through the job because the old owner didn't want to keep paying to fix it (which meant not even filling the radiator or plugging it in!) i guess he assumed i was the kind of guy to notice these things when i got it home, since i wasn't driving it home.

 

So many stupid lessons to be learned well RE LEARNED - that you can't assume anybody will tell you anything, even your brother ! lol

I'm hoping this is all just something very co-incidental and i haven't royally cooked the head / block

I made it home in time for the fireworks though  .... 

 

Happy new years to the ground boys

 

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1 minute ago, jamesmcd said:

Do you know how to do a compression test yourself?

I am going to haul it back to the workshop, and get the tests underway - got all the tools there.

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2 minutes ago, 325_driver said:

I am going to haul it back to the workshop, and get the tests underway - got all the tools there.

Choice. Lucky it’s a Toyota! 

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Ok ok, so i get it now, you bought a car that had KNOWN issues, and then you think its because you drove it with no coolant that it failed? No, its probably something to do with the ORIGINAL fault.... ? Could've dropped a valve or anything.

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1 minute ago, KwS said:

Ok ok, so i get it now, you bought a car that had KNOWN issues, and then you think its because you drove it with no coolant that it failed? No, its probably something to do with the ORIGINAL fault.... ? Could've dropped a valve or anything.

You thinking that sticky lifter issue - has now maybe turned into a bent valve maybe? (could be that top end rattle i heard before it died)

Would 1 valve bent like that be enough for it not to start? I would have thought compression in the other 3 cylinders would be ok to atleast get a splutter.

going to be a good story regardless!

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As an aside, when I first met my wife she had a "reliable Toyota". Within six months it blew a head gasket and I got her onto BMWs since then ;) 

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"has seized / sticky lifter would recommend new engine or head"

 

 

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2 minutes ago, M3AN said:

"has seized / sticky lifter would recommend new engine or head"

 

 

didn't sound seized to me, we started it a few times at my brothers - left it running tried to get the sticky lifter sound

I suppose i'll find out if i might have just heard it! lol!

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if there is a bent valve - i'll make sure to upload the photo - for shits and giggles - i hope the story thus far has atleast provided some entertainment factor

My e30 never gave me crap like this - it dropped an oil pipe on a 20km drive into town .. spilling oil all over the main highway, and the rest of it over a drive way, yet the engine powered on :)

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Good news bad news scenario. Got my tools back finally and into testing / ripping it apart. < 25psi across all cylinders lol it's definitely the head.

Now I'm hoping it's just head gasket not a warped head.

Who would have thought, a Toyota over heating from that !

 

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I once drove a car that had a blown head gasket, it eventually stopped when the cylinder head got so hot the distributor cap MELTED and started drooping onto the rotor! It takes a lot more than 5 minutes to do that.

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Can vouch for overheating longevity too. Drove the e36 with a blown waterpump for 45 mins with no issues once the waterpump was replaced.

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42 minutes ago, 325_driver said:

Who would have thought, a Toyota over heating from that !

It didn't.

The cause is whatever caused the original diagnosis of "has seized / sticky lifter would recommend new engine or head" whether that diagnosis was correct or not.

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Yeah maybe they were driving it really hot and hard to begin with causing head internals to scorch and expand. Thus my 10 minute stint was enough to push it into retirement lol

 

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