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Jun

E60 M5 on its first 2 week and 2,500+ kms with us

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Some photos on our first 2 weeks with the E60 M5 while we where traveling about 2,500+ kms on both South Island and North Island.  Oddly enough it was reliable, clutch was getting sketchy when it was doing its bridal car duty for my friends, possibly due to 30c heat and I did downshift it a bit.  We also encountered 1 red cog error after going down slowly on a 200 meter driveway, I think the computer panicked or got confused... it was a really stop and go moment for the tranny.  Turn off and on the car seems to have sorted it.  I then did it again a few more times but just set to neutral and coasted it down.  Overall it is a great touring car on the country side (V10 sound is really different), just avoid the city and it is a very fun car.  Hopefully with proper maintenance and luck we get to a keeper and we could use every now and then going around NZ.  Our R34 has now retired of its road trip duties,  now it's only used for cruising on nearby places until it gets upgraded.  We saw a few BMWs along the way, not sure if they are here on this forums including a 650i F06.

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Good effort, sounds like you need to book it in for a new clutch though, mine had similar symptoms before it got done, it will just get worse until its sorted.

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12 minutes ago, aja540i said:

Good effort, sounds like you need to book it in for a new clutch though, mine had similar symptoms before it got done, it will just get worse until its sorted.

Thanks for the suggestion.  Yes I am hoping it is just the clutch, possibly ours still have the original clutch as it only has done 56k kms.  Not sure if the dealer is pulling our leg, but I asked several times and got it even on email that clutch on a SMG is covered under MBI.  He said and written on email that it is still considered as an auto and not manual which doesn't get cover clutch on MBI.  How much did your clutch job cost?  Also did you do other stuff as well like release bearing, bushes, etc?  Is there a way for me to know if the SMG pump has been replaced as well? Car is an import, so no real service records.  Got one of those online reports, but I am not sure I can trust it.

Edited by Jun

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Here are the options of the car.  Maybe someone can grok over it. 

https://www.mdecoder.com/decode/be18391

For us what we really liked the original purchaser optioned:  Rear seat warmers S496A (my daughter's requirement), SilverStone II extended leather X2A9 (item that made my wife tell me to get this particular car) and Red interior lights S563A (we did not know until we driven it at night time... pleasant surprise).

 

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BMW did mine and it was $5K approx,  i assume they did everything required at the time, i know it was clutch plates, pressure plate, flywheel and release bearing at minimum. Mine is a UK import but all the servicing in NZ had been done by Team McMillan BMW so i rang them and the guy in the service department told me everything they had done to it. Mine has also done wedding car duties with an M5 sedan.

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Hi Jun

So you did indeed buy the car?

Congrats! Going to Southward this Sunday.


Daniel

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53 minutes ago, 318Touring said:

Hi Jun

So you did indeed buy the car?

Congrats! Going to Southward this Sunday.


Daniel

Yup Daniel, I will be at southward as long as the car gets us there. Using it now just to get some of the cobwebs out.

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Went to visit Mike Page today (thanks to Greg for the info - unsure if I recall correctly, previous owner of Pete's E60 M5), Page European in the city was already sold a few years back.  Mike has a shop at Kapiti, Mike Page European.  He checked out the M5, also test driven it.  Error code was shift selector, that was the error I encountered about 1,000+ kms before.  He has reset and checked it, it looks to be no issues.  Mike also said our M5 actually drives well compared to most E60 M5 he has serviced.  He also said it is clean as a whistle, no signs of fluid leaks, very clean underneath the car.

The clutch shudder I encountered when it was a hot day and was really shifting on the high revs is a probably sign of clutch wear.  Mike said it is an unusual circumstance he recommends to leave it for now, there is very little shudder on normal conditions.  So I guess for now until I change the clutch, no hard driving on hot days and then using the car on slow speed immediately after.

Greg (sorry if I didn't recall your name correctly) also measured my M5 to be 10 cm lower on the rear compared to 2 M5 at Southward museum meetup.  Mike had a look at the shocks and springs.  He said they are definitely BMW shocks, springs may have been changed though.  As we can see the bolt on the shocks have some marks on it, so the shocks had definitely been worked on, Mike said it is too early for the any shock work to be done on the car with my milage so it might be the springs where changed and the springs had paint markings.  I do like the look of the lower rear, wheel arch is nice and flush on the wheel.  So keeping it as is.

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Oh there is a 850i on Mike's shop, V12.  I guess only a few people can repair these old cars, Mike will be one of them.

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Cleaned up the interior this weekend, finally got some time to actually detail the interior.  We also drove out the south coast to enjoy the sunset.

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3,000+ kms now and so far it has been ok.  Need to prepare for those repairs, I hope it would be just preventive maintenance bills.

Edited by Jun
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looking good!

 

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@treone you where at southward right? You told me about Mike Page, I hope I got your name right. Was it Greg?

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@Jun - Yip that's me.

Hope you've got a better idea of 'next steps' after having Mike and his crew look over it. I can't recommend Mike Page European enough so I think you (and the M5) are in the right hands.

Replacement springs explains why your M5 sits lower at the rear than the other two. At least you've got the option to revert back to original if you want or keep as is. 

Now you know more about whats going on with the clutch and preparing for  replacement isn't a bad thing either.

I reckon just keep enjoying it!

Oh and that 8 series! Its 'Vespa1'! I used to see this occasionally in Wellington. Haven't seen it in a while and always wondered where it got to. Hoping it wasn't 'off the road'.

When I get  my 8 I know where mine will be going to be 'pampered' ☺️

Edited by treone
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2 minutes ago, treone said:

@Jun - Yip that's me.

Hope you've got a better idea of 'next steps' after having Mike and his crew look over it. I can't recommend Mike Page European enough so I think you (and the M5) are in the right hands.

Mike said about 70-80k I need to have the SMG fluid done, spark plugs, etc.  He can't think on top of this head what else to do.  Brakes are done, he also noticed they where brand new.  I may try to read more about the sun roof drains thank you mentioned to me, I did ask Mike about it and it seems to be something I can do.  Just need to make sure I can pull apart the rear wheel wells.

2 minutes ago, treone said:

Replacement springs explains why your M5 sits lower at the rear than the other two. At least you've got the option to revert back to original if you want or keep as is. 

I do like the look for the lowered rear,  in fact one of the other cars I was seriously giving an offer had the rear with after market lowered springs.  The flush look on that red M5 looks so go, which also had 20" after market wheels.  So keeping mine as they are.

2 minutes ago, treone said:

Now you know more about whats going on with the clutch and preparing for  replacement isn't a bad thing either.

I reckon just keep enjoying it!

Yup I guess in this case, just enjoying it a bit and also knowing that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the car just wear and tear.  If the clutch didn't wear out soon, then maybe the repair budget can do to a eisenmann exhaust which will match the Cayenne's eisenmann tips.... well just wishful thinking.   I wish there was a cheap good hack with the M5 exhaust.

2 minutes ago, treone said:

Oh and that 8 series! I know where mine will be going to be 'pampered' when I get one  ☺️

Yes Mike told me that you are looking for an 8 series, I told him you where looking for an E39 M5... so are you going to have both?!?

BTW I did get your name right?  Was it Greg?

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1 hour ago, Jun said:

Yes Mike told me that you are looking for an 8 series, I told him you where looking for an E39 M5... so are you going to have both?!?

BTW I did get your name right?  Was it Greg?

Mikes got a good memory as I haven't been there for a while 😊

The plan is to eventually get another 8 series and an E39 M5. Hopefully I'll be able to get one of the two in the next 1-2 years and then work towards the other after that, before prices go crazier. Both will be keepers for me!

An Eisenmann exhaust will provide a nice note. I preferred the sound (roar!) of the V10 when you hit the higher rev range - nothing could beat it haha.

And  yip - you've got my name right 

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Replaced the battery last weekend.  I went to "The Battery Shop" at Alice Town, Luke and his brothers are great to deal with.  I replaced the battery as a preventative maintenance as I don't know the age of the battery.  From the looks of it is an original BMW battery, may have came all the way from overseas or dealer just got an older battery and put it in.  Tested to about 60-70% capacity but I certainly can feel a slower turn on the crank if the car hasn't started for a week.  It will be a little colder in the morning and I would like a starting car as well keeping the computers happy so not to throw off false positive errors.

Replaced with a Varta H15, 950 CCA.  Let see how long it last.

Contemplating on probably changing oil down from 10w-60 to 5w-50.  I don't track the car, as well as do any sustained high rpm.  I would rather much protect the engine especially the bearings on cold starts.  Oil is like religion, but wouldn't want start a debate.  Any thoughts as well as what is available locally that is 5w-50?  Seen Mobil and Penrite, not much else.

IMG_6589.jpg

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Man, that's a beast battery!  950CCA would probably restart a submerged U-Boat 😊

Jun, did you get battery registration (coding) done in the car?  If not, I recommend you get that sorted.  Charging is regulated by the system according to battery type and age; if you dont 'tell' the car it has a new AGM battery, charging at the old rate may significantly curtail the life of your new battery.

Oil?  Be very wary on what you use in the S85.  In your position I'd be getting oil analysis before running anything that deviates from the BMW Spec (including additive concentrations).   Interesting thread here (includes link to BE Bearings website)... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3876322/1

HTH

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Castrol or Penrite 10W60, no point dropping to 5W50.

I just picked up some Penrite for mine at about 70 bucks a bottle on special.

 

I also need a new battery, I have just been putting off dropping yet another $500 on the car.

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4 hours ago, Olaf said:

Jun, did you get battery registration (coding) done in the car?  If not, I recommend you get that sorted.  Charging is regulated by the system according to battery type and age; if you dont 'tell' the car it has a new AGM battery, charging at the old rate may significantly curtail the life of your new battery.

I asked them about the coding prior hand, they said they can do it.  I did see them stick into the OBD port and did some coding.  The initial on of the car I saw a battery warning on the dash, which was immediately resolved.  Aside from that I don't know how else to confirm if the battery registration was done properly.  They did seem to know about the battery regulation, etc.

Quote

Oil?  Be very wary on what you use in the S85.  In your position I'd be getting oil analysis before running anything that deviates from the BMW Spec (including additive concentrations).   Interesting thread here (includes link to BE Bearings website)... https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3876322/1

HTH

Looking to an analysis for a base line, possibly using this NZ local? https://www.oillab.co.nz  If statistics is on my side I still have 40-50k kms to go before the rod bearings would show signs of wear.  This post is probably that I can relate to me, where I am in the start of his initial purchase https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/511233-my-07-e60-m5-bearing-story-1st-year-ownership.html

Like him I have taken the route of using Ceratec, which I currently use on our Cayenne.  Cayenne V8 is known for bore scorching, similar to S65/85 engine the manufacturer hasn't come forward with the cause, etc.  There are a lot theories, remedies, etc. nothing definitive.  There are similar debates to add or not, but with the Cayenne community it has swayed more to the add Ceratec as there is one owner who had a minor bore scorch a Cayenne Turbo was able to save his engine from a block replacement by using it.

Initial observations with Cayenne before using Ceratec, it would use oil about 1 liter per 5,000 km.  This is on the low side of oil consumption on the Cayenne, 1 liter per 1,000 kms can be expected as per owners manual.  After adding Ceratec beside the motor is much more quite on first few mins after cold start, it hasn't consumed much oil after 10,000 km.  For the M5, I am just on the first 100 km but so far it significantly reduced the cold start up noise.  The M5 now sounds less of a diesel upon startup, more like a noisy gas engine now.  Unrelated to the Ceratec but so far the oil consumption is a lot lower than I expected on the M5.  So far only 0.7 liter a bit more than 3,000 kms.  We got the car from the dealer slightly overfilled at 1.5 liters, now gone down to 0.8 liter and it kinda was staying there for the last 1,000 kms.   I have 1 liter of 10-60w on the trunk, so far I haven't used it.  

It is one of the fun and not so fun part of owning older cars, we are on our own to do our best to take care of the old cars.  Kinda fun to also understand them and get our minds off other things.

Edited by Jun
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2 hours ago, GorGasm said:

Castrol or Penrite 10W60, no point dropping to 5W50.

I just picked up some Penrite for mine at about 70 bucks a bottle on special.

I actually have a Castrol 10w60 already when I initially got the car.  I was expecting some oil burn, but so far I haven't used a drop of the spare oil.  For the first 2,000 kms it burn about 0.7 liter from 1.5 liter to 0.8 liter.  I have been waiting for it to reach 0.5 liter and top up 0.5 liter, but so far after 1,000 kms it hasn't burned much oil.  Maybe I am not running the car hard enough?  How much oil does your M5 consume?  I have seen reports of 1 liter per 500 kms, but it seems most are on the 1 liter per 1-2,000 kms.

I am not dropping down to 5W50 because of cost, but more to my thinking it would apply for my current usage of the car.  Some of owners of the M5 has used thinner oil 0w-40, I am looking for the 5w for our colder climate as well as I don't really track the car or have any plans to.  I would probably drive it hard, but typically nothing last more than 30 secs above 5k rpm, to keep in legal speeds.  Typical oil temp is 90c, only had it go to 100c on a hot day and running it hard... however because how my SMG behaves that it becomes sticky when its hot and driven hard this usually doesn't happen.  My thinking after reading things a 50 is sufficient enough for spirited driving.  As I think 5w-60 or 0w-60 either doesn't exist or not common.  I haven't made up my mind yet, but I am inclined to use a 5w-50 because of these reasons.

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Do be careful with your oil selection...

BMW recommends a 60 weight oil (hot) for most (all?) M cars since the early 2000's for very specific reasons, and they're not only about how you drive the car, some of them relate to how the engine was designed. In this case it was designed to run on 60 weight and I'd recommend sticking with that (unless you have empirical evidence to the contrary) .

Now, I hear your reasoning above: 'but I want a 5w oil and i can't get that with a 60 weight' so factor this in:

  • 5w is designed to work (protect) at temps as low as -30*C (yes, that's negative 30)
  • 10w is designed to do the same at temps as low as -18*C

Nobody in NZ needs a 5w oil, it simply doesn't get cold enough. People using or advocating 0w are mad (and don't understand oil).

It's also preferable to have the smallest gap between the winter and operating viscosity so the engine doesn't have to experience a wide(r) viscosity range. On this basis alone a 20w-60 would be better for your car (no problem with NZ climate, more stable viscosity, manufacturers recommendation for operating temp viscosity).

Some people argue that a lower winter weight (the first number) has two benefits:

  1. Warms up quicker
  2. Spreads through engine parts faster when cold

Both are misleading:

  1. Both (5w and 10w) provide the required protection at cold start (see temps above), as long as you're not over revving it until it's warm you have all the protection you need. So, whilst it will warm up quicker, you have no practical need for it to do so.
  2. It (5w for example) also drains to the sump faster when the car is off (than a 10w for example) so there's less oil coating the surfaces on cold start; that and, the oil system is highly pressurised and oil gets pushed to everywhere it needs to be by the time the idle has settled after starting.

IMO, stick to a full synthetic 10w-60 and use any reputable brand you like.

 

Edited by M3AN
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The oil guage and usage is rather sporadic on mine.  Sometimes it will sit around 1.0 for what seems like ages and then over a couple of hundred km it drops to 0.3 and lower.  At a guess it would used 1 litre per 2000km.  

Currently has 10w60.  I just replaced my thermostat at it had a stored code in the ECU and on first run it appears to be running warmer already at just under 100C and when I shut it down the after run fan went for quite a long time.  I can't remember ever hearing the fan run before.  Fingers crossed this has a positive effect on economy.

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9 hours ago, Jun said:

I asked them about the coding prior hand, they said they can do it.  I did see them stick into the OBD port and did some coding.  The initial on of the car I saw a battery warning on the dash, which was immediately resolved.  Aside from that I don't know how else to confirm if the battery registration was done properly.  They did seem to know about the battery regulation, etc.

you're sorted!  great result.  🙂

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2 hours ago, M3AN said:

Do be careful with your oil selection...

yup definitely, I guess nobody will ever know why is causing the S65 and S85 premature rod bearing wear.  I do plan to replace the bearings either by 100k kms (more than 40k kms to go) mark or signs of wear.

2 hours ago, M3AN said:

Both are misleading:

  1. Both (5w and 10w) provide the required protection at cold start (see temps above), as long as you're not over revving it until it's warm you have all the protection you need. So, whilst it will warm up quicker, you have no practical need for it to do so.
  2. It (5w for example) also drains to the sump faster when the car is off (than a 10w for example) so there's less oil coating the surfaces on cold start; that and, the oil system is highly pressurised and oil gets pushed to everywhere it needs to be by the time the idle has settled after starting.

IMO, stick to a full synthetic 10w-60 and use any reputable brand you like.

 

Currently have Castrol 10w-60 for topup.  Shop that I used sometimes is a Liqui Moly seller.  Right now I do warm up the car on cold start and only move when either rpm marker move from 6k rpm to 7k rpm or temp moves past 50c. There has been the occasion when we are in a hurry, that warm up is just 2 mins.  I typically only rev to 2k and shift manually until it reaches operating temp of 90-100c.  Once this is done we have some fun with the V10, we we live this is just about the time we pass a short tunnel 😅

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1 hour ago, GorGasm said:

The oil guage and usage is rather sporadic on mine.  Sometimes it will sit around 1.0 for what seems like ages and then over a couple of hundred km it drops to 0.3 and lower.  At a guess it would used 1 litre per 2000km.  

Currently has 10w60.  I just replaced my thermostat at it had a stored code in the ECU and on first run it appears to be running warmer already at just under 100C and when I shut it down the after run fan went for quite a long time.  I can't remember ever hearing the fan run before.  Fingers crossed this has a positive effect on economy.

Ok thanks that is useful info.  I would probably top up a bit on the weekend.  I even tried to force a readout by pressing on the BC, then reading goes blank.  Still 0.8L when new reading comes through, but guesstimate it is wrong and it is probably closer to 0.2 liter. 

I have heard M5 fan run about 15 secs after shut down, but usually only on hot days.  This is similar behavior on the Cayenne, during cold days the fan would turn off in less than 5 secs but on hot days operate to about 15-20 secs more.  Oil temp usually is about 90c, it takes about 10-15 min to reach to that temp.

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Today mine was running for something like 5 minutes after shut down.  Could be just an anomaly after having a bunch of work done, but will certainly keep an ear on it.

Will also report back on time to operating temp.

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1 hour ago, Jun said:

yup definitely, I guess nobody will ever know why is causing the S65 and S85 premature rod bearing wear.  I do plan to replace the bearings either by 100k kms (more than 40k kms to go) mark or signs of wear.

I read one site that ascribed it to too fine a tolerance from crank to bearing.  They advocated the BE bearings also.

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