E39 M5

[bradgalbraith 217]

Why is it that people are so offended that it's now listed at a higher price? The marker will decide what it's worth. How are capital gains on cars different from capital gains on houses? Its listed at a reasonable price. Nobody has a gun to your head telling you to buy it.. if you're not interested, move along. The fact that I got it for a good price is because I took a risk and bought it- anyone else could have done the same. 

[Driftit 1925]

9 hours ago, k3zza said:

For a moderator you're pretty loose with keeping the forum rules. I thought Bimmersport were trying to build a healthy forum culture rather than try tear into people.

I'm mates with Brad and posted on TradeMe that cause I thought some of the comments were dumb ones from Warriors. Didn't need to get personal about a TradeMe comment, just keep it civil.

 

"*You are obviously allowed your point of view / opinion but it must be kept civil.

* Treat others how you would like to be treated .. and have fun."

I'm interested how you completely misinterpreted my comment to having a go at the owner.

To clarify I said the owner will probably sell it for what he is asking and that one particular White Knight (noun - a person or thing that comes to someone's aid.) would offer the owner a turn on his Mrs for succeeding.

I couldn't care less that the guy is flipping the car.  Just laughing at his comment section.

[BreakMyWindow 1870]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

I care. Not spending 30k on a car that was 20k less than a month ago and would make sure others dont get ripped off either. That's a "healthy forum culture".

Nothing healthy about your comments all through this thread dude. No need to be salty that someone bought a car for cheap and is selling it for a higher price. As mentioned the market will decide. If you have nothing positive to say then move on from this thread.

[Eagle 1514]

1 hour ago, k3zza said:

Interesting view points. Out of curiosity, where do people sit on flipping cars for profit?

I'm all for freedom of information, so people can make informed decisions.

People (especially forum members) should be free to post what it sold for in the recent or far past, or history of ownership if known by other members etc. so that other members aren't buying blind.

At the same time, with complete information, people are entitled to buy and sell whatever they want at a price they think it is worth. If the market is there for the car, won't the market determine the selling price of the car?

I mean for a tidy E39 M5, what is it worth irrespective of what it sold for? I would guess more than $20k.

And considering there aren't any others up for sale in NZ at the moment, what would make a E39 M5 at around $30k a rip-off? If it was sold earlier at $20k, how much time would have to pass to make it "not a rip-off" in your opinion?

I'm pretty neutral on the matter, it's something most do to varying degrees that i have no real issue with as long as they being dishonest about anything. People just about never tell you what they bought something for when selling if they got a bargain (unlike the opposite) which tells you something about the human psyche. Personally when ive got good deals on things and haven't invested much time into them then ill give someone else a good deal if they are a reputable buyer.

30k is a fair market price and the rest is purely subjective

[Blackie 510]

18 minutes ago, BreakMyWindow said:

Nothing healthy about your comments all through this thread dude. No need to be salty that someone bought a car for cheap and is selling it for a higher price. As mentioned the market will decide. If you have nothing positive to say then move on from this thread.

Got every right to express my opinion. If you dont like it or have anything positive to say, take your own advice and move on from this thread 

[M3AN 4015]

The only negative thing I see here is that I didn't pick it up for $20k... to do exactly what Brad's doing. My loss.

I hope he sells it for close to what he's asking, I think it's probably worth around that.

It's not like he saw it in a back yard and conned an old granny out of it, it was advertised publicly and he purchased it publicly at a price the seller was happy with. Perhaps the seller really needed $20k cash quick and didn't care what it was worth. We can't know. That Brad knows what it's probably worth is hardly a crime.

I think most of the butt-hurt comes from people realising, after the fact, that they missed out on a killer deal. If you knew the margin on wine at a supermarket would you stop buying it? Not if you liked wine.

GLWS.

[Blackie 510]

I think if you look at the threads in this trademe section flippers are treated with distain, but because it's someone within the community people are acting differently.

[NZ BMW 368]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

I care. Not spending 30k on a car that was 20k less than a month ago and would make sure others dont get ripped off either. That's a "healthy forum culture".

I don’t think the forum has anything to do with it. Are we now the 2nd hand car selling police or something? 

How long should someone hold this car for before they sell it and what gives you the right to pass judgment on that? I think it’s a pretty slippery slope of moral relativism, and if we are all truely above blame on anything like this in our lives then we can all cast the first stone. 

I dunno, I find it hard to get worked up over some guy I don’t know, selling a car I don’t wish to own for more than he bought it. 

Don’t these things sell all day long for circa $30K anyway?

Edited March 11, 2020 by NZ BMW
Typo

[M3AN 4015]

20 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I think if you look at the threads in this trademe section flippers are treated with distain, but because it's someone within the community people are acting differently.

There might be some truth in that, it's easier to be critical of people you're not in close social proximity to, or unlikely to meet. Just spend 5 mins on any social media platform to prove that. 

But I don't think that's the crux of it in this case. Most "flippers" that I recall us being critical of are those that are trying to on-sell to an unsuspecting mug for above market value and that's certainly not the case here. Anyone who buys an E39 M5 in 2020 is going in with their eyes wide open. I don't think we're regularly bagging on people that are selling vehicles for a fair market price, regardless of what they paid for them.

We also need to accept the risk Brad is taking. If there was only 1 buyer at $20k, how many will there be at $30k? He may have to wait a substantial amount of time. He''s had more cars than I've had bananas, he loves it, he lives it, power to him.

A mate of mine bought a CSL for ~$50k, recently sold it for ~$100k... as @NZ BMW asks, how long did he have to own it to make that fair to the new owner?

Edited March 11, 2020 by M3AN

[bradgalbraith 217]

1 hour ago, M3AN said:

There might be some truth in that, it's easier to be critical of people you're not in close social proximity to, or unlikely to meet. Just spend 5 mins on any social media platform to prove that. 

But I don't think that's the crux of it in this case. Most "flippers" that I recall us being critical of are those that are trying to on-sell to an unsuspecting mug for above market value and that's certainly not the case here. Anyone who buys an E39 M5 in 2020 is going in with their eyes wide open. I don't think we're regularly bagging on people that are selling vehicles for a fair market price, regardless of what they paid for them.

We also need to accept the risk Brad is taking. If there was only 1 buyer at $20k, how many will there be at $30k? He may have to wait a substantial amount of time. He''s had more cars than I've had bananas, he loves it, he lives it, power to him.

A mate of mine bought a CSL for ~$50k, recently sold it for ~$100k... as @NZ BMW asks, how long did he have to own it to make that fair to the new owner?

Haha I have had a few.. yes. When I mention risk, I mean I hit buy now on a highly strung M car with no PPI, minimal detail and no confirmation of service history. Now that I have the car and have checked it out, I can confirm it's a good car which has been well looked after with good history. Im sure other e39 M5 owners would vouch for it, though I'm not asking them to. I've listed as a classified so people can inspect it and get a PPI and be satisfied with what they're buying. 

[hqstu 780]

Good discussion and fair points whichever side (or middle) of the issue you sit at.  It's just good that the forum can discuss such a topic.  I'm lucky to own such a car, and have seen Brad's nice example the other day.  I'd like to think they are worth a sh#t ton more than what recent sales suggest, but the NZ market is tiny.  One can't compare offshore asking prices to NZ, it just doesn't work like that..  Supply / Demand.  The purchase price is just the start of the "journey" with these incredible cars and if you are teetering on the brink for arguably the finest M car ever... I'd just say do it.  Whether you paid 20 , 25, 32 or more, is really immaterial a few years down the track... just ask me...

 

[m325i 704]

16 hours ago, Blackie said:

I care. Not spending 30k on a car that was 20k less than a month ago and would make sure others dont get ripped off either. That's a "healthy forum culture".

We've got a commie here guys

[eliongater 718]

@m325i if it means an m5 for everyone then maybe it’s a good thing... in theory.

[treone 608]

14 hours ago, Blackie said:

I think if you look at the threads in this trademe section flippers are treated with distain, but because it's someone within the community people are acting differently.

This.

It was not that long ago ‘the community’ was ripping into dealers who were doing the exact same thing. Remember the E36 M3’s?

So other than hypocrisy, whats the difference here?

Nothing wrong with people wanting to make a quick buck, but please, lets not be two-faced about it ?

[qube 3568]

15 hours ago, bradgalbraith said:

The fact that I got it for a good price is because I took a risk and bought it- anyone else could have done the same. 

it could have easily gone the other way and the buyer could have had to spend $5-10 to fix up any potential issues. The fact that the car turned out better than expected is Brad's luck and irrespective of any price he paid for it. Also, it is his freedom to list it for whatever he wants to sell it for. No justification needed.

As previously mentioned, nothing different to buying and flipping houses for a capital gain except the lack of CGT

Also, a good set of photos and an accurate description should help sell it at a more reasonable price - something the previous seller did not do.

Time to move along I say. 

[Michael. 2312]

To be fair this sort of thing happens every day with car buying and selling. I've done it before. 

The difference and slight problem here was that the car was sold with a recorded priced on Trade Me previously @ $20k so everyone that watches the M car market would have likely seen that. 

If the car was sold for an undisclosed amount this discussion wouldn't have existed and $30k or so would have seemed like a fair market price for the car.

For some it would be like going to a dealer and seeing a car they liked and the dealer showing they paid 7.5k for it and it's now on the lot for 15k - it's certainly not ideal practice.

At the end of the day there are only so many E39 M5s in NZ so eventually it will sell to someone who doesn't care and just wants it regardless. 

 

 

 

[KwS 2372]

I think the biggest thing that grinds my gears a bit is that the car was snapped up so quickly 90% of other potential buyers probably didn't even get a chance to line their ducks up, and now they can't buy it without paying a 12k premium. It was listed that night and gone by lunch the next day. 

I get buying and selling cars is generally with the intent of making money, but buying something just to straight away take some better photos and list it for a significant increase doesn't sit well with me.

I buy and sell a lot of cars, but I at least enjoy them for a couple of months before moving them on (usually in a much better state than I got them in). 

An enthusiast doesn't flip cars. An enthusiast takes the time to learn and enjoy a car. 

[qube 3568]

40 minutes ago, KwS said:

I think the biggest thing that grinds my gears a bit is that the car was snapped up so quickly 90% of other potential buyers probably didn't even get a chance to line their ducks up

Just FYI, this isnt true in this case. it stayed for a whole listing duration, relisted, then sold to current owner.

[bradgalbraith 217]

5 minutes ago, KwS said:

I think the biggest thing that grinds my gears a bit is that the car was snapped up so quickly 90% of other potential buyers probably didn't even get a chance to line their ducks up, and now they can't buy it without paying a 12k premium. It was listed that night and gone by lunch the next day. 

I get buying and selling cars is generally with the intent of making money, but buying something just to straight away take some better photos and list it for a significant increase doesn't sit well with me.

I buy and sell a lot of cars, but I at least enjoy them for a couple of months before moving them on (usually in a much better state than I got them in). 

An enthusiast doesn't flip cars. An enthusiast takes the time to learn and enjoy a car. 

If you're in the market for an E39 M5, you'll be searching regularly for one. If you aren't, you either don't know that they're rare or you don't want it that badly. The car was listed twice and did not sell the first time at $19.5k where it was up for about 2 weeks. That's more than enough opportunity for someone to snatch it up if they really wanted it. I chose to capitalise on what I knew was a good opportunity based on the time that I put into analysing market values. 'An enthusiast doesn't flip cars' - that's your opinion. I'm an enthusiast through and through and don't need to justify that to anyone. What makes you think I'm not loving every minute of the driving the car before before it sells? I don't think there's anything more for me or anyone else to add from this point to be honest.

[KwS 2372]

5 hours ago, qube said:

Just FYI, this isnt true in this case. it stayed for a whole listing duration, relisted, then sold to current owner.

The car didn't have a buy now (or it wasnt 20k), and the reserve price wasnt clear. It wasn't a 19.5k start reserve. It was only 20k on the second listing for the short time that was up.

On 1/30/2020 at 11:27 AM, qube said:

we dont know what the price is.. reserve could be 25k but could be 35k. 

Eh, either way, i dont really care. Im not in the market, im not standing to lose anything. There is definitely double standards though, everyone defending Brad, yet happy to jump into other threads and slag off other people flipping cars.

Edited March 12, 2020 by KwS