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PRC

Suspension bush options for e87 130i?

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13 hours ago, PRC said:

Just read through various comments (and thanks to contributors). How do Koni FSD and Sport (adjustable?) compare with Bilstein B4 then?

Do you have budget? Refreshing suspension on most BMW is by far the biggest expense in my experience.

B4 are basically OEM replacements and are priced accordingly, you could probably get them and new hardware for under $1000 landed from places like Daemon tweeks, Rockauto or FCP

Koni's are a performance upgrade (like the B6 and B8) and are much more expensive (shox.com list Sport adjustables F&R for $1200 NZD). You may get hit with custom import entry fee\paper work\GST and at least a $100-200 freight bill importing them, making them over $1500 landed. Then you got all new bump stops, mounts etc to buy on top of that. 

Typically most stuff in NZ would likely cost more even if its available.

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3 hours ago, Eagle said:

Do you have budget? Refreshing suspension on most BMW is by far the biggest expense in my experience.

B4 are basically OEM replacements and are priced accordingly, you could probably get them and new hardware for under $1000 landed from places like Daemon tweeks, Rockauto or FCP

Koni's are a performance upgrade (like the B6 and B8) and are much more expensive (shox.com list Sport adjustables F&R for $1200 NZD). You may get hit with custom import entry fee\paper work\GST and at least a $100-200 freight bill importing them, making them over $1500 landed. Then you got all new bump stops, mounts etc to buy on top of that. 

Typically most stuff in NZ would likely cost more even if its available.

No budget. Current dampers (and probably bushes) are worn, and have decided to retain the car for the foreseeable future. Options having read responses here and elsewhere:

  1. OEM dampers and bushes
  2. Koni adjustable dampers and OEM bushes

Will also order a new set of tyres at the same time.

Edited by PRC

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Keep in mind OEM MSport is terrible, you'll regret baking that in with more investment.

For an inexpensive improvement you'd be better off getting the relatively cheap Bilstein B4's, reuse your current springs and get either Bilstein or BMW Performance bumpstops. Bushings are another matter, I'd visually inspect them with a pry bar before deciding to replace any, that can get pricy fast and it may be less expensive in some cases to actually get replacement arms with the bushes already installed.

Edited by M3AN

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4 hours ago, M3AN said:

Keep in mind OEM MSport is terrible, you'll regret baking that in with more investment.

For an inexpensive improvement you'd be better off getting the relatively cheap Bilstein B4's, reuse your current springs and get either Bilstein or BMW Performance bumpstops. Bushings are another matter, I'd visually inspect them with a pry bar before deciding to replace any, that can get pricy fast and it may be less expansive in some cases to actually get replacement arms with the bushes already installed.

My view is this is the usual false economy approach - buy and average shock and be stuck with mediocre performance or pay double to get them re-valved. 

Left front is leaking in the 87  so koni's being ordered next week that way I can use the stock springs etc and get a decent upgrade  and if  more is desired in the future  with different springs then it is simply a case of dialing the rebound accordingly. 

 The Konis will reduce the trash ride everyone blames the runflats for and they will ramp up in the big stuff  compare this to a  stiff compresion shock which transmits the  road noise more and has a lie down when  it is really needed to play its part.  

 

Edited by 3pedals
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39 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

" And has a lie down when it is really needed to play its part "

 

Love this statement 🙂

Edited by wrs

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Corrected my typo should read: "And has a lie down when  it is really needed to play its part".  

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3 hours ago, 3pedals said:

My view is this is the usual false economy approach - buy and average shock and be stuck with mediocre performance or pay double to get them re-valved. 

Left front is leaking in the 87  so koni's being ordered next week that way I can use the stock springs etc and get a decent upgrade  and if  more is desired in the future  with different springs then it is simply a case of dialing the rebound accordingly. 

 The Konis will reduce the trash ride everyone blames the runflats for and they will ramp up in the big stuff  compare this to a  stiff compresion shock which transmits the  road noise more and has a lie down when  it is really needed to play its part.  

 

I was talking about his option #1, not his option #2. His "inexpensive" option (#1) is a bad one, my suggestion improves it dramatically. Of course if you spend more you can get more.

Edited by M3AN
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I dunno if can really say all Bilstein shocks have flawed valving from a sample size of X(5). Ive run Bilsteins on probably 6 cars, have never jumped in and thought "damn that bad', Ive run konis on a few cars too, and again Ive never had a badly matched set. 

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They're better than I could have hoped for on the M3. They'd be my go-to for the 130 also (B6's).

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1 hour ago, Jacko said:

I dunno if can really say all Bilstein shocks have flawed valving from a sample size of X(5). Ive run Bilsteins on probably 6 cars, have never jumped in and thought "damn that bad', Ive run konis on a few cars too, and again Ive never had a badly matched set. 

That's a reasonably fair comment - however the dialogue has clearly developed to demonstrate the "difference" in the valving of the B6/B8 compared to the Koni sport adjustable is real and its not so much that they are flawed but that they are different. 

Refer the graph, with this knowledge we can see why and appreciate the use of lower rate springs with the B6s & 8'S to get a good match. Equally we know we can use standard rate and higher rate springs with the Konis. 

The B6's and the H&R's were sold as a kit specifically  for the X5  by many  and they qualify for the so called "proven set-up' BUT they are a total mis match   for New Zealand conditions and the only remedy was a total re- valve. They may be totally fine at 240kmh plus on a billiard smooth autobahn. 

I jumped in it every day saying this is WRONG and when I finally got the guys at autolign to drive they said "FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK- how long have you been putting up with this - reply "as long as you have been telling me they will soften up when they are run in" . Then we sorted it out

All shocks have their place  but its not a black art if we are reasonably informed.

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I bought Koni SA's for my E92 after listening to some good debate here a few years back. I have also run Konis and Bilsteins on my various E36's over the years. My observations are as follows. The Koni SA when set up correctly on my E92 combined with M3 control arms and Tein springs has certainly made the car handle noticeably better than  stock and even with the transition from 17" to 18 inch  kept ride comfort acceptable on the rough roads where I live. On the highway the suspension works very well and I definitely have a more control in faster corners. Dialing the rear end in is a complete pain in butt as you have to remove the shock to  change the setting. The front is fine as you can adjust through the strut tower. Overall I am happy but the car needs an LSD but this will no doubt mean I need to change my roll bars to help dial out under-steer which is reasonably well controlled at present. although an LSD may allow me to rotate the car with the throttle something the E90 M3 owners I have talked to say works well. 

On my E36's I could not feel a noticeable difference between a B8 equipped 325i and Koni SA equipped car. Both I felt handled well but the Koni car had Re003's and the Bilstein car had Pirellis which I did not think were as good. I have a good test drive course, Whitemans Valley, and when things are not right it becomes pretty obvious. The best car through the valley was my E46 330ci with Ohlins Road and Track suspension, with Superpro bushings and revised roll bars, great ability to deal with the bumpy surface while still giving great feel and confidence in the corners. 

Edited by Herbmiester

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P Zero Rossos, dry grip was fine but average in the wet and they just felt a big vague.

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Just sharing :

Had Rossos as a square set up ( with koni S.A's) and found them very good all round especially in the wet they just stuck like sh*t to a blanket - I'd suggest it was probably the firmer compression damping of the Bilsteins giving the tyre too much of an initial shove  before it heated up- first thing we dial back on bikes when we want better wet traction. 

Had 003's on the Koni SA in a staggered set up never liked them unless they were really warm, at normal road speeds they wandered and didn't stick especially when running into a  cool/ damp patch under trees / in shadow on country roads. I'd speculate in this case my softer set-up wasn't pushing them around enough to keep them heated up where as yours was? 

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My Ohlins setup was quite stiff and I had 003 245's all round on the 330ci and that was a very neutral car with pretty high levels of grip. By the time I get 3 minutes into the valley I have turned 25 to 30 corners so I suspect getting heat in them is no problem. 

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Visited my suspension and brakes specialist today for a detailed assessment. The dampers, bump stops and radius arm bushes are worn, and everything else is in good condition. So, fewer new parts required than first thought:

  • Koni sports adjustable dampers
  • BMW Performance bump stops
  • Superpro radius arm/bushes
  • Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres

Any recommendations on best source for Koni dampers? A NZ supplier preferred, but will order from reputable off-shore supplier if no local recommendations. Thanks.

Edited by PRC

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Price from NZ, Stocks and perhaps Adens tyres and then look at Demon Tweeks. DT were substantially cheaper even after freight and GST. That said I would prefer to shop local and would pay a small price premium over imported. 

Are the radius arm bushes replaceable of do your replace the whole arm?

Edited by Herbmiester

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2 hours ago, Herbmiester said:

Price from NZ, Stocks and perhaps Adens tyres and then look at Demon Tweeks. DT were substantially cheaper even after freight and GST. That said I would prefer to shop local and would pay a small price premium over imported. 

Are the radius arm bushes replaceable of do your replace the whole arm?

Thank you. My suspension guy is checking with Stocks and I'll check Demon Tweeks for a private import comparison. Like you, my preference is to shop local (less hassle!). Also, we are checking option of radius arms complete v. replacement bushes (both are available from Superpro, apparently).

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Order for Koni sport adjustable shocks placed (via Demon Tweeks).

BMW performance bump stops, and Superpro radius arms complete with bushes etc. will be ordered tomorrow.

Now we wait.

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2 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

what did you pay for the front Konis? 

about £143 each.

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