gjm 3191 Report post Posted October 1, 2020 Miss M's E46 has (apparently) had a slightly low or slightly rough idle for a while. Today, having driven to the supermarket with no issue, returned to the car and it won't start. Battery is good, half tank of fuel. Turns over fast enough and occasionally almost fires but then stutters and refuses to run. No.. We've not read codes! Supermarket car parks aren't known for such facilities! Fuel pump relay, perhaps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted October 2, 2020 Split intake pipe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted October 2, 2020 Three good thumps under the fuel pump near the tank and it started first time. Seems to be running smoother, too, although that could be my imagination. I'll check the fuel filter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaz 1040 Report post Posted October 4, 2020 Fuel pump and or carbon canisters all blocked up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted October 4, 2020 I'm now told this also happened 12 months or so ago. Engine turned over, but wouldn't fire. Apparently a jump start fixed it that time... Cars, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted November 30, 2020 OK - after weeks of no issue, this happened three times yesterday. My first thought was (as above) fuel filter, but that's somewhere towards the front under the passenger side, so banging on the plastic cover in front of the rear offside wheel isn't going to be clearing that issue. (Filter probably needs changing anyway.) Equally, given the fuel pump is in-tank and accessed from under the rear seat, how has our banging on the cover ever helped anything? My suspicion is that a teensy bit of transmitted concussive shock has been sufficient to induce a little life to the fuel pump, enough to bring it to life. This problem, almost definitely relating to fuel supply, has only ever manifested when starting the car. It has never cut out while driving. Fuel pumps are expensive. 😢 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Young Thrash Driver 1020 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 Not trolling, but... Did you get around to reading the codes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydoogle 383 Report post Posted December 1, 2020 Bring it over and have a cuppa. I'll scare it in to behaving. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 On 12/1/2020 at 5:41 PM, Young Thrash Driver said: Not trolling, but... Did you get around to reading the codes? Yeees... Mission. Has anyone used Windows XP lately? 😂 PA Soft BMW Scanner 1.4.0 (Haven't used INPA for so long that I've forgotten how.) Hope this is legible... Definitely room for improvement, but nothing about fueling. Oh - it started first turn this morning. 🙄🤦♂️. Still going to change the fuel filter when things have dried up a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olaf 3235 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 On 12/1/2020 at 7:22 PM, dirtydoogle said: Bring it over and have a cuppa. I'll scare it in to behaving. good bstard award right there! 1 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 6, 2020 Spent a frustrating time - quantity unknown - attempting the supposedly simple job of removing and replacing the fuel filter. Not being able to move the car made it more difficult - a car parked on grass is tricky to jack to a sensible height, and support once there. Once that was out of the way, I found the jubilee clips securing the filter required a 6.5mm socket, or similar. (I prefer using a socket to using a screwdriver for these things.) Finally release those, release the clamping bracket (20mm nut - nice'n'easy), then spend another hour (at least) persuading the hoses off the filter, without damaging the hoses. All good. And there was a fair amount of silt came out. So - fit new filter. Genuine BMW one, at that. And the bracket will. not. fit. It seems that the rubber gasket around the new filter is a teensy tiny bit thicker than the one that came off, so the bracket won't fit. Maybe the rubber will compress, but not by hand. Check the gasket on the old filter. Not a chance. It's welded to the filter and attempts to remove it damage the gasket. A moment (or six) of introspection, a bottle of Peroni, and "let's have a look in the spares" ( @Young Thrash Driver ) and it seems I have another, identical-looking filter. And yes - the gasket looks to be very slightly slimmer than the new BMW one I've tried. Not that it makes any feckin' difference. Still won't start. So new fuel pump it is. 😡 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 8, 2020 Final checks before spending $$$ on a fuel pump. Remove relay. Looks good, but that means nothing. Swap with horn relay (itself a mission to remove). Crank engine, but still no start. Swap relays back. Swear about refitting horn relay. Remove the fuel tank side pipe from the fuel filter. There's a 'pfft' sound of air being sucked in - this suggests to me that the engine side is sucking, but the in-tank pump isn't pushing. And yes - I've tried the turn ignition key to position 3 (one before cranking) and listened for sounds of life at the in-tank pump. Seat base out, car pulled back, sound insulation out of the way... And it may be the quietest fuel pump in the world. Or it might not be working at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 8, 2020 Been chatting with @dirty doogle. We've been through a number of scenarios, but the last one will be to 'jump' pins 87 and 30 on the pump and see if it runs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) WTAF? New fuel pump. Get to the 'remove the fuel line from the pump' stage and the clamp used is an 'impossible' one. Looks to have been crimped in place, then smacked with a hammer/screwdriver to ensure it cannot be uncrimped. At all. What was wrong with a jubilee clip/screw drive clamp? Or even a BMW/Merc-preferred clic or clic-r clamp? Oh no... Let's throw a truly awful clamp into the mix. OK - aviation snips took care of the clamp. A moment of consternation as I compared the 'old' pump with the replacement - the replacement is a part, and the pump needs to be rebuilt. Didn't expect that. Edited December 10, 2020 by gjm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) I've performed the process described next to Figure 12. No problem. At last... Something going right. 'Slowly lift..." You're kidding, right? I've got the entire back of the car lifting on the suspension while I try to lift the fuel pump out of the tank. This is supposed to be a 30 minute job. Been 3 hours, so far. Update: Right. Finally persuaded the pump out of the tank. Have to be so careful doing that - there's a float which has to be persuaded out of the tank by rotating and maneuvering the pump. It would be so easy to damage that when 'lifting' the pump out of the tank. Next - new pump. Which is supplied with two more of those bloody clips that I don't have a tool for. And my jubilee clip collection is in a large tin, somewhere in a 20' container. This is why people don't work on cars at home any more! Edited December 11, 2020 by gjm 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olaf 3235 Report post Posted December 11, 2020 Sounds like you’re winning. Could it be Oetikker Clamps you’re referring to? Faster and more secure for manufacturing or repair - just not reusable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Olaf said: Sounds like you’re winning. Could it be Oetikker Clamps you’re referring to? Faster and more secure for manufacturing or repair - just not reusable. Yep - I think it is. Often used on CV joints and fuel lines. There's two tools for fixing them - one leaves a flat top to the crimp, the other (better) one will apply a dent to the flat top, distributing pressure more evenly. Being reusable would be nice, but it is the impossibility of removing them that can make life so difficult. In the absence of the correct tool and if you can get to the 'head' you can cut it off (with the right tool)... Or you need a ear clamp tool to deal with them. The more readily usable jubilee clip is obviously a use again and again device, but does rely on some skill to ensure they are applied correctly and not over or under tightened. I'll find some stainless jubilee clips in town - the 140km round trip to maybe find a clamp tool is a great dissuader. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olaf 3235 Report post Posted December 11, 2020 I bought the tool on sale - Powerbuilt - for $15. never used it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Olaf said: I bought the tool on sale - Powerbuilt - for $15. never used it! I'll probably get one, if only to avoid the potential for grief in the future. And I tend to be a tool hoarder. In the meantime, stainless jubilee clips will suffice. Or should... I've checked fuses, relay, replaced the fuel filter, proved no fuel was getting to the fuel filter from the tank, and replaced the fuel pump. Got it all back together, can now hear a fuel pump running (couldn't before) but it still won't start. I'll charge the battery tomorrow, let the pump run for a bit and try again. Changing the core of the fuel pump assembly is a mission. If you ever do this, I recommend spending whatever extra is needed to acquire a complete, drop-in unit. Removing hardened fuel pump form the inside of the fuel pump assembly frame is a nightmare. Edited December 11, 2020 by gjm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3191 Report post Posted December 14, 2020 (edited) OK. Embarrassing, but the last non-running issue is down to me. Having extricated the old pump from the pump cradle, including removal of work-hardened plastic fuel line (a mission in itself), I got it all back together. It seems what I heard wasn't - couldn't have been - the pump. Fuses in dash and engine checked, relay checked, checked filter installed correctly, voltage present at fuel pump plug (new pump installed) but no fuel. Why not? In my exultation at having finally got the pump back together in the cradle, I'd neglected to properly attach the spade connectors to the new pump. No power to pump = no fuel to engine. Sorted that, crank the engine for a few seconds, and we have life again. It is running much smoother too, so replacing the pump and filter were worthwhile. Thanks to @dirty doogle, Mrs Doogle, and Oscar for their visit and support! Pixel says to come back any time. 🐶 Edited December 14, 2020 by gjm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
