Palazzo 427 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300394535/one-dead-another-injured-in-greenhithe-crash-on-aucklands-sh18 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 2076 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Im guessing they were speeding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leichtbau 525 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) *edited* Edited August 30, 2021 by leichtbau incorrect intersection in stuff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BreakMyWindow 1870 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Don’t think the van was parked where it goes from 3 to 2 lanes. Looks like it was parked on the 2 lane down hill section shoulder which is the best, but obviously not in this case, place to catch speeders on sh18. Maybe was parked initially under the bridge, or possibly before as the van took a big hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leichtbau 525 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, BreakMyWindow said: Looks like it was parked on the 2 lane down hill section shoulder which is the best, but obviously not in this case, place to catch speeders on sh18. The stuff article said it was Tauhinu Rd not Greenhithe Rd, have edited my post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Pretty sure there is a code stipulating where camera vans are supposed to park when working. Also pretty sure that it does not allow parking on the shoulder on a motorway. My understanding is that they have to park clear of the emergency lane, but open to correction on that. Cheers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BreakMyWindow 1870 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Have seen em parked on the shoulder before. And of all times, van gets nailed during lockdown when there’s sfa traffic…Bad luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Looked it up... Extracted from NZTA public information... A mobile safe speed camera vehicle must be deployed in the following manner. Safe speed camera vehicles must be legally parked. Safe speed camera vehicles must be deployed in a manner that is visible from the roadside and are prohibited from being deployed in a hidden fashion. The position in which the safe speed camera vehicle is parked must, so far as is practicable, be at the optimal distance from the normal traffic lanes to ensure the safety of the operator and best quality photo, i.e. about one and one half lane widths away from the normal path of vehicles. When the safe speed camera is being deployed, on a roadway, the safe speed camera vehicle tailgate must either be fully extended or closed. The use of private land for the parking of safe speed camera vehicles is permitted where the occupier of the land has clearly given permission for such use. The safe speed camera vehicle must be parked on a straight section of road so that the operator has adequate reference points for aligning the camera. This ensures that any vehicle, which is being measured and/or photographed, is traveling on a straight section of road at that time. Where a safe speed camera is deployed in an area where drivers are making the transition from a higher speed limit to a lower speed limit the safe speed camera vehicle must not be positioned closer than 250 (two hundred and fifty) metres from the point where the speed limit reduces. This restriction does not apply within School Zones or Temporary Speed limit sites. A safe speed camera must not be deployed within 250 (two hundred and fifty) metres of the finish of any passing lane. In any situation where a camera is operational at a site, a second camera must not be deployed in the same site or in any other site adjoining the first. Where a safe speed camera is deployed in a school zone safe speed camera site, it must only be operated in the following circumstances: between the hours of 0730 hrs to 1800 hrs on a school day; or at any other time that a school activity occurs, this includes sports activities held at school grounds. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Kind of an interesting event from an engineering perspective. A bit of google mapping shows that the van was likely parked in the shadow under the overbridge where there is a bit of extra width over and above the normal road shoulder. Judging by the location of the SUV and the fact that it was upside down, impulse and momentum being what they are, the SUV probably stopped dead on impact (no pun intended and no offence to any person involved). On the other hand the camera van would have been punted forward with a great deal of force, as can be seen by the relative positions of the two vehicles. If the unfortunate operator of the camera van was sitting in the drivers seat at the moment of impact, he/she would have experienced momentary but extreme G-force. Assuming seatbelt and airbag both worked the collision could be survivable as the operator would have been forced back into the seat. For the unfortunate occupant/s of the SUV the collision was not survivable. They would have continued to move forward at high speed for a few milliseconds after the moment of impact without the benefits of support from a seat, and then stopped abruptly. It is a sobering reminder of the damage caused in a high speed impact either between two vehicles or vehicle versus tree/pole. It also highlights the danger of stopping a vehicle on a motorway for any reason... even changing a wheel on the side of the road is a high risk activity. Safety first is always a good motto. Cheers... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MD13 459 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Speed cameras and their operation are essential? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Allanw 1051 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, MD13 said: Speed cameras and their operation are essential? I think more essential than normal! Have you seen all the morons on the road??? It's seems they're ALL still driving around, at speed, while all the normal drivers stay home! Travelling home one afternoon last week, in 3 separate incidents; I was nearly hit twice and the the car in front of me had to take evasive action... and I only saw 12 cars the whole 10 km trip! And 5AM seems to be the time for 100km in 50 zones and not stopping for red lights... and there was only 3 cars the whole trip that day! 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nick496 268 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Even off the road. One of my mates neighbours was attempting to do skids in his front paddock with his ute in the weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lord_jagganath 421 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 stress be getting to these folk. letting their wildside be uncaged. frankly, with the wet weather, I can see people driving at the speed limit, which is ok until you start aquaplaning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MD13 459 Report post Posted August 31, 2021 Camera doesn't slow you down though or improve your driving. Just taxes those that don't adhere. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael. 2312 Report post Posted August 31, 2021 I wonder if there will be an inquiry to determine if this was by the book or not, seems too hazardous parking vans like that for hours on end, if there was no van it's likely the person that crashed would still be alive today. Looking at legislation there is a $150 fine for non emergency stopping on NZs motoways. I guess police use for stopping their vehicles on the motorway is exempt, anyone have info on that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted August 31, 2021 While on the subject of traffic camera I would like to take a moment to discuss the psychology of the different approaches taken in some other countries. In NZ it is basically the Old West approach... the bad guys lay in ambush, shoot the unsuspecting travelers and steal their money. This negative style of enforcement is typical of local authorities and government agencies in NZ, and in general only serves to generate resentment in the victims and disrespect for the enforcers. Contrast this with the type of traffic camera shown in the attached pic. Here the location of the camera is obvious and the posted limit is clearly displayed. The readout (in the large black square at the top) shows the speed of the approaching vehicle. If the driver chooses to drive faster than the limit the camera displays a red light above the lens and takes a picture resulting in a fine. If the driver chooses to comply with the speed limit, the camera may display a green light (depending on the version) and it does not take a picture. Local drivers pride themselves on being able to pass the camera at 1 km/hr under the limit This style of enforcement puts the decision to speed or not to speed entirely in the hands of the driver. There is no ambush and there is no bad guy to become the focus for your annoyance and resentment. This is overt and passive, not covert and active. The only person a driver can get angry with is him/herself. Maybe it is time NZ dropped its negative approach to enforcement and tried applying some positive reinforcement... after all, everyone likes a pat on the back. Cheers... 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E28E30 334 Report post Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) I agree with you @jon dee. Our approach is cynical and negative and doesn’t slow all traffic down; whereas the “overt” approach slows most drivers down the whole time achieving greater safety surely? Ngauranga Gorge is an interesting example: although I don’t think it is signposted, most people know it is there. So most people reduce/stay at 80km/h regardless of whether the camera is in the box or not (or is it always in the box?), achieving the desired outcome of safe speeds down the incline. European countries use a mix of approaches, and I would like NZ to look at other alternatives. The same with endless focusing on speed but not on other campaigns as well eg “Learn how to merge”, “Stay left on multilane roads” and “Let people in, you dick”. How is it that our neighbours across the ditch can do all of these things and we can’t? Road designs here notwithstanding Edited September 1, 2021 by E30 325i Rag-Top Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted August 31, 2021 Indeed. NZ is already over regulated and over governed, yet the standard approach to every behavioral problem is the draconian ... "pass more laws and increase the penalties" solution. The trite response to anyone who questions this attitude is... "if you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear", witness the covert introduction of widespread facial recognition technology by government agencies. But I digress When mobile speed camera were first introduced they were placed in unmarked white van. For one brief moment the vans wore stickers identifying their purpose, but that bright idea quickly disappeared. White vans were also considered to be too easily seen so the move was made to unmarked vans in bland colours.... all in the name of "safety, and as everyone knows, once "safety" is used as a defence to justify a negative change in enforcement, all opposing arguments are automatically voided. Contrast this with a pic of a camera van in another country that is deliberately made highly visible. Parked up on the side of the road this van will cause drivers to reduce speed (even if not speeding) and makes a worthwhile contribution to road safety... without inflicting a fine. Sure, it does not generate as much revenue as a plain, unmarked green van, but then, collecting revenue is not the purpose of the exercise according to many police spokesmen over the years. Cheers... 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jom 96 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 Especially a plain unmarked green van parked in the shadow of an overhanging tree, or just over the brow of a hill... SH1 Himitangi to Sanson (actually I think the VW Iltis that's usually around is blue) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 427 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 Actually, when they were introduced they were in Camry wagons. Always seemed to be burgundy and they had the hatch somehow set at half open. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 427 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 And Telstars according to Google. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Palazzo said: Actually, when they were introduced they were in Camry wagons. Always seemed to be burgundy and they had the hatch somehow set at half open. Yes... I think the early camera units didn't work properly looking thru the rear glass... and they had that cool light that flashed to make your plate light up and let you know you had been "trapped". And since those early days the police philosophy has not changed. It's still all about trapping people rather than pro-actively influencing drivers and changing their attitudes. An empty police car parked on the side of the road will make people think more about their speed and moderate their behavior than a fine arriving in the mail weeks after the event. If you want to train (or retrain) behavior patterns the feedback must be immediate at the time the mistake was made. Being chased down the road by a car with flashing lights and then lectured, makes a far more lasting impression that getting a "fast drivers tax bill" delivered by the postman. Ask me how I know that Cheers... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KwS 2372 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 Back in my day the speed camera areas used to be signposted 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lord_jagganath 421 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 ^ this wasn't even so long ago, maybe 6 years or so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jon dee 500 Report post Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) On 8/31/2021 at 11:36 AM, nick496 said: Even off the road. One of my mates neighbours was attempting to do skids in his front paddock with his ute in the weekend. Skidz are for kidz... I'll show you how to drift a ute !!! Edited September 1, 2021 by jon dee Becoz change... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
