BMW lead investigation into vehicular hydrogen storage systems

[gjm 3191]

Collaboration between Hexagon Purus, BMW, Bosch and TesTneT aims to explore hydrogen storage system solutions that can be integrated into future fuel cell passenger vehicles.

The project, FlatHyStor, defines its objective as creating a functional design and testing of an innovative hydrogen tank system.

If successful it could boost the hydrogen mobility market and help create more efficient hydrogen passenger vehicles.

The German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy is contributing €6m o help fund development.

The consortium will be led by BMW who will coordinate different activities and provide technical specifications for the storage system integration and application.

Hexagon Purus will utilise high-pressure hydrogen cylinders and vehicle integration structure with Bosch to develop advanced tank valves and high-pressure regulator technology.

[jon dee 500]

 

There is one small problem with hydrogen fueled vehicles...

Edited February 5, 2022 by jon dee
Typo...

[gjm 3191]

32 minutes ago, jon dee said:

There is one small problem with hydrogen fueled vehicles...

Hence the investigation into storage systems.
Cloth bags and aluminium foil were never really suitable!

[Olaf 3235]

Toyota have been making it work very safely thank you for about a decade, with the Mirai on sale since 2014.  Many manufacturers were researching (to the prototype stage) hydorgen fuel cells in the 1990's/early 00's.  Great to see them heading back that way, far more sensible than bloody lithium batteries!

If I could buy and run a Mirai in NZ tomorrow, I would.

[gjm 3191]

There should be a hydrogen fuel-cell X5 this year.

My interest in hydrogen as a fuel for vehicles goes back more than 40 years to when I read about an American who was running his car, his ride-on mower, and even the 'furnace' in his house on hydrogen.

[lord_jagganath 421]

BMW has been burning Hydrogen since 1984 and using it in FCEV since 2006, the only real stumbling blocks are, as has always been the case, were production and sufficiently robust storage. even the best tanks in 2006 needed to vent ever so often as it became gas at a tap. 

[jon dee 500]

If your memory goes back that far, you will remember the glory days of CNG and LPG as alternative fuels. And perhaps you will recall the plethora of regulations and safety fears and over reaction to any accident that involved a vehicle that used one of these fuels ? Every LPG fuel tank was a potential BLEVE that required the road to be closed in both directions and spectators to be kept 200 metres clear

I shudder to think of the raft of regulations that will be introduced in the advent of hydrogen being introduced into NZ !!! I really think that we should be looking at something that requires no fuel at all and is intrinsically safe...

Cheers...

PS: Wellington for the WIN.... oops... for the WIND

Edited February 6, 2022 by jon dee
Typo...

[Breaker 980]

The major heavy vehicle players are all looking hydrogen for heavy transport options such as Volvo trucks and buses being predominantly HFCEV mix by 2030. I’m not sure the complexity and poor fuel saving costs will translate to small passenger vehicles where battery capacity for large vehicles it makes sense, most likely passenger vehicles will stay pure EV, easier, cheaper and moderate distances all covered.

[gjm 3191]

14 minutes ago, Breaker said:

The major heavy vehicle players are all looking hydrogen for heavy transport options such as Volvo trucks and buses being predominantly HFCEV mix by 2030. I’m not sure the complexity and poor fuel saving costs will translate to small passenger vehicles where battery capacity for large vehicles it makes sense, most likely passenger vehicles will stay pure EV, easier, cheaper and moderate distances all covered.

The heavier the vehicle, the better suited to hydrogen it seems to be. Aircraft, ships, ferries... All have seen remarkable steps taken towards a hydrogen-powered future.

[KwS 2372]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:02 PM, Olaf said:

Toyota have been making it work very safely thank you for about a decade, with the Mirai on sale since 2014.  Many manufacturers were researching (to the prototype stage) hydorgen fuel cells in the 1990's/early 00's.  Great to see them heading back that way, far more sensible than bloody lithium batteries!

If I could buy and run a Mirai in NZ tomorrow, I would.

I was thinking the same. Toyota is already on their second generation Mirai, and Hyundai has the Nexo... so what is BMW leading?

Its also ridiculous to be so scared of hydrogen exploding when anyone with an EV is literally sitting on a volatile explosive. At least with Hydrogen you can vent a fire/explosion "safely", lithium just vents wherever and whenever it wants.

Hydrogen (either ICE or FCEV) is the future, the money was just put in the wrong basket first. Imagine is Musk had invested in Hydrogen, how far ahead Hydrogen would be, and batteries would just be something we laugh about.

[KwS 2372]

19 hours ago, Breaker said:

The major heavy vehicle players are all looking hydrogen for heavy transport options such as Volvo trucks and buses being predominantly HFCEV mix by 2030. I’m not sure the complexity and poor fuel saving costs will translate to small passenger vehicles where battery capacity for large vehicles it makes sense, most likely passenger vehicles will stay pure EV, easier, cheaper and moderate distances all covered.

Hyundai has already started, the first Hydrogen truck arrived in NZ at the end of last year. I believe Waitomo is working on the Hydrogen fuelling network.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nz-gets-its-first-hydrogen-truck

[polley 916]

And where do we get hydrogen from ?

[KwS 2372]

37 minutes ago, polley said:

And where do we get hydrogen from ?

And where do we get lithium from?

[Breaker 980]

1 hour ago, KwS said:

Hyundai has already started, the first Hydrogen truck arrived in NZ at the end of last year. I believe Waitomo is working on the Hydrogen fuelling network.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nz-gets-its-first-hydrogen-truck

Yes we had the option to lease one of the first 15 units, but life cycle costs at $750k for the 6 years didn’t appeal. There will fuelling in Auckland, Tauranga and Hamilton to start for the golden triangle traffic, then likely a Palmerston North install.

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

Does hydrogen make sense yet, in terms of energy in during manufacture vs energy out available in whichever vehicle's fuel tank?

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2914]

2 hours ago, polley said:

And where do we get hydrogen from ?

I didn’t think the issue was where to get it from, more how to get it cost and energy efficiently?

[polley 916]

10 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

I didn’t think the issue was where to get it from, more how to get it cost and energy efficiently?

 

Yep that's my point, its not very efficient to produce it from electricity, not to mention the amount of water required... not just for the electrolysis process but cooling as well.

 

https://phys.org/news/2007-10-analysis-requirements-hydrogen-economy.html

 

[KwS 2372]

56 minutes ago, polley said:

 

Yep that's my point, its not very efficient to produce it from electricity, not to mention the amount of water required... not just for the electrolysis process but cooling as well.

 

https://phys.org/news/2007-10-analysis-requirements-hydrogen-economy.html

 

Its beside the point. The technology will only get better as it progresses. Its got to start somewhere.

[polley 916]

Just now, KwS said:

Its beside the point. The technology will only get better as it progresses. Its got to start somewhere.

The amount of water it uses is what it is.... defined by physics. H2O.... not give any hints? 😂

[Breaker 980]

1 hour ago, polley said:

The amount of water it uses is what it is.... defined by physics. H2O.... not give any hints? 😂

Your spot on, the cost of ‘Green’ hydrogen through electrolysis uses huge amounts of energy and electricity so you need vast cheap electricity to make sufficient usable hydrogen. No technology will change that physics equation hence why I believe EVs will remain the prominent light vehicle option as it just doesn’t work for heavy transportation whereas hydrogen will. But then you look at ship and air craft transportation solutions and things start getting very tricky to get emissions reductions, if that is you driver for moving from current options.

[lord_jagganath 421]

switch Tiwai Point from Aluminium to Hydrogen production 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2914]

That has been suggested, ideal site apparently.

[polley 916]

21 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

That has been suggested, ideal site apparently.

The only thing ideal about is the abundance of electricity available. The rest of the logistics, like compressing it into tanks and sticking it on trucks and carting it around the country and to the north island, not so ideal.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2914]

True, I think it was more in terms of the deep water port that is there so you can pump it straight on to gas tanker ships.

Whether it would be primarily for export I’m not sure.

[dirtydoogle 383]

The biggest hurdle is it takes 80-100kw/h of electricity to make the required hydrogen ICE travel 100km. Currently hydrogen gas power is pretty inefficient. Most EVs will do 100km under 20kw/h (not including charging and line losses)

 

Tis a shame, because ICE engines are fun and some make cool noises