MondoM3

Hi everyone. Time for an update... I've picked the car up from Jeff Gray and so far so good! Running sweet and havnt been able to wipe the grin off my face since. Thanks for everyone's advice over this. I've now got the old pump in my possession. They said that they bench tested the pump after removing it and it ran briefly before stopping all together.. For now i'll let it sit while I enjoy the car, but at some stage I'd like to have a look at it and see if theres any hints on what the failure was. Had completely forgotten how awesome this car is! Cheers, Simon

I have mixed feelings about JG. Overall I'm just disappointed with the lack of confident diagnostics. Its all been a bit wishy-washy at times. There are people there that are good to deal with, however there are one or two that I will do anything to avoid.

Thanks Tim, you're absolutely right and I did need to take a step back. I've since walked my way through the whole situation and decided to replace the pump with a used unit from an '04 M3 with around 75,000 k's (big thanks to Ray at Hell BM). Ive accepted the risks Im taking with an old pump but I think its worth doing as I'm saving massively on the price of a new unit. I'm going to have a close look at the old pump once removed and try and figure out what has fried it. Will update with any progress.

Very valid thinking! Remember, Im am already well past the point where the BMW repair manual says "replace pump". Perhaps they are right, it could very well be facked. Those sorts of diagnostics are not part of their plan though and I'm in a bit of an awkward situation here. Although they seem to genuinely want to help me, they're just not setup for unique problem solving really. I'm at the point where I need to replace the pump or go elsewhere for further investigation. Jeff Gray seem convinced the pump is fried. Lol. Well I definitely have less hair than 8 months ago! for 26, its getting a bit thin up there! I cant help but feel that this is an electrical fault. Might be wrong but that's my gut feeling. Purely because of the original symptoms of temperature related behaviour and the fact that the pump would work whenever the ISIS computer told it to. And now it suddenly has no response at all... Right at this moment I really don't know what to do. But I need to make some sort of decision soon before I have a stroke. Edit: This afternoon I had actually decided to go ahead and replace the pump. But now im back on the fence... what would you guys do in my situation?

UPDATE Things haven't gone well today. Now that the wiring terminals have been dried and cleaned up, everything was assembled back as usual. Now absolutely nothing from the pump. Wont prime or anything. Jeff Gray have tried supplying the pump directly with power and nothing. Completely dead. So the pump has gone from working fine until hot, to not working at all... Trying to think of why its suddenly stopped all together. What do you guys think? Has it finally just given up or has something caused it to burn out here.

Sounds like a good solution. I think I need to address the water issues first then get back to whatever problems still remain. I should probably let you all know that I found out today that the guys at Jeff Gray have been doing their own research online and in particular have been reading this very thread.... So here we are all learning together. We'll get there in the end.

Cool, thanks guys. I really appreciate the support. Ive found being an M3 owner in chch is a lonely experience! haha. There just isn't the volume of BMW's here to allow for competition between dealers and workshops. Jeff Gray is literally all I have. I just want my car back! Exactly 228 (that's two hundred and twenty eight) days since I last drove it. Friday 5pm has arrived and yet another week has passed with little/no progress... The battle resumes Monday. Until then I'll continue to see what info I can find on all this. Simon

Which one above are you thinking of? I guess they kind of both could apply at the moment lol

Yeah you're right, I could have an issue that hasn't even been discussed here yet. I haven't come across this in other forums before, although I'm not saying it hasn't happened a lot in the past. pressure washing your BMW's engine bay => DONT DO IT! lol

Have since been shown the diagram (same as Tom's) by the foreman so it they have the right one I believe. Chassis number: JR03279 That water has been sitting for months and months which explains why this has occurred immediately after getting my Vanos sorted. Im just hoping the damage caused does not go past electrical connections and fuses.

UPDATE After a discussion with the operations manager and the workshop foreman it seems that the gear selector angle sensor fault is independent from the hydraulic pressure issues...hmm After leaving the dealership I was called back and told that one of the techs had just pulled off the plug connected to the pump. This plug was completely swamped with water!! When the plug was pulled off, water has pissed out onto the shop floor. Just when you thought this couldn't get any stranger. At some point the car seems to have been pressure washed in the engine bay, causing water to collect in the wiring plug. This can only have happened before December 2012 which is when I bought the car. I have since contacted Tom and discussed a plan of attack... I've asked them to disconnect the battery, dry out the plug connections, check all fuses, reconnect battery, clear all fault codes and see if the car starts. Will keep you guys posted.

Arrrrgh. The story continues. Jeff Gray have said they have cut the circuit for the SMG temp sensor. First the car started with no problems. Now the car doesn't seem to know what gear it is or isn't in... Apparently the fault related is for failed gear selection. fault code: Selection angle sensor p1758 Seems so strange and unrelated!? I have a feeling that they have cut wrong wire!!!!! f**k I hope not.

Thanks mate. I think if this pays off then I owe everyone and particularly Tom a round of drinks!

DUUUUUUDE. You're an absolute legend. Im not sure how I couldn't find all that info on the countless existing threads! One more question: If I JUST do the resistor splice, might that take care of the problem?? I believe that wire is quite accessible right?, so if I just add the resistor, leave the existing sensor and see what happens I have nothing to lose? if the fault comes back then I will fork out the cash to access the sensor, get it replaced then bleed the system. Still, its not 100% certain that this sensor is the problem. Even so, this possibility should have been eliminated before Jeff Gray quote me for over $5k of work!!! If I didn't raise this issue with them, I probably would have ended up replacing the pump..... which would have fixed the issue. BUT I would have unknowingly been shafted 5k. It makes me wonder how many people out there have just spend buckets of cash for no reason. I have talked to Jeff Gray and I am meeting them in the morning. They have agreed to cut the wire to the sensor and test the car. If it gets rid of the problems then BINGO. If it doesn't, then on to the next solution..... Will keep you posted. Cheers

yeah I haven't had much luck with this car that's for sure. have owned it 8 months and have only drive 1000km!... anyway, I have heard back from JG. They have admitted that either of two temperature sensors are likely the cause.. I was hoping it would be the separate sensor that I mentioned earlier (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMG-Transmission-Fluid-Temperature-Sensor-for-BMW-m3-Series-2001-to-2006-/310672976927) BUT what I overlooked initially is that that sensor is for the GEARBOX OIL TEMPERATURE. not SMG HYDRAULIC FLUID. So I feel it is more likely to be the SMG fluid temp sensor which is actually a part of the hydraulic unit. Can anyone confirm for me that this sensor inside the pump is the ONLY temp sensor related to the SMG Hydraulic fluid? Or is there a separate sensor also? This sensor is not serviceable/replaceable by Jeff Gray. Tom mentioned to me the possibility of doing a small re-wire of the sensor at the pump to trick the computer into receiving lower temperature readings. I think this is my best bet. Simon

Hi there. 128,000 k's. NZ new. seviced at Team Macmillan and BM Workshop. Have just been through a Vanos nightmare so the timing couldn't be any worse!

HI guys. just to give an update. I have informed the service team at JG of my concerns about the fluid temp sensor. They confirmed again that they found it to be reading at about 75 deg. Once I told him that the sensor will shut off the pump when 80 deg is reached he said 'that's interesting'... hes going to talk to his techs and get back to me. Have found a temp sensor on ebay for very cheap so this will be awesome news if it is the temp sensor. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMG-Transmission-F...6-/310672976927 fingers crossed!!! Cheers, Simon

What do you mean by 'GT1'? is that a diagnostic unit?

Great, thanks for the info guys. Heres where I currently am with those 8 points listed: 1. Infamous Salmon relay - Has been replaced with no change 2. hood switch - Been told by Jeff Gray its ok. And I believe the car would not even start if this was faulty? 3. gear selection sensor - Was replaced by previous owner. Work done by BM Workshop. 4. indent spring - Not yet checked. Will definitely check when the 'box is pulled! 5. temperature sensor (this has been known to cause accumulator like failures - because what it is basically doing is telling the SMG ecu that the pump fluid is overheating so it stops charging even when it isn't) - there's now really good resistor mods online that you can do to trick the system into never seeing an overheat. - I have specifically asked them about this and Jeff Gray say that the temp sensor has been reading about 75 deg C consistently and they believe that is normal. 6. SMG accumulator. Very likely. Im currently thinking that if I replace the accumulator I should probably replace the pump at the same time, I don't want to go through the same labour costs in 50,000k's to get the pump replaced.Im planning on owning the car for 3+ years 7. SMG pump (there are businesses now overseas that do rewinds of these pumps) A few have attempted a self rewind DIY and failed, as apparently the brushes are quite special so to speak. I can source a rebuilt pump for around 1650 USD. (minus 250USD core exch so 1400). Its a lot less than the $3695.00 + GST by Jeff Gray! BUT is it really worth the risk? rebuilt part: http://www.invasionautoproducts.com/01bmwm3smgpu.html 8. hydraulic lines. Hmmmm, there could-well be a bent line...unlikely but possible. but the fact that the issue gets worse when the car gets warmer doesn't makes sense with that... I would have thought that the warmer the fluid, the easier it would pass thru the lines? In addition to those 8 points there is another interesting point I was told by Kayne at Kayne Barrie Motorsport. He mentioned that if the SMG system is not calibrated regularly, out of sync gear selection can cause the gear selector forks to wear on one side. If it gets bad enough the gearbox wont be able to hold gears. Im going to check this when the box comes out but its unlikely to be related because of the haydraulic pressure fault and that the symptoms aren't quite right for it to be this. Hybrid. I agree that its unlikely the ECU. The only reason im considering it as issue is because its such a cheap repair! lol. Although theres Im still confused as to why the pump can be made to bring pressure by an external computer, when the ECU should really be activating it as soon as pressure is down. Right now im considering two options: 1. Replace ECU to see if there is any change. ($400 incl labour). Still hoping ill find someone to lend me an ECU 2. Drop gearbox, check springs, check gear selector forks, check hydraulic lines. If no faults there => replace pump.

Hey man, thanks for your quick response! The problem seems to actually be across all gears - jumps out of 4th for example, then coasts along in neutral. when car comes to a stop the car struggles to get into 1st. they can then make the pump provide pressure then engage first. So I feel there is possibly a communication issue between pump and ECU. Sorry I don't have the fault code right now but I'm told the fault logged is for 'hydraulic pressure'. What I don't doubt is that at times there is not enough hydraulic pressure to shift but the reason for this is what I'm not sure about. The clutch adaptation has been done as I have just had a new clutch fitted. But they haven't mentioned anything about re-teaching the gear selection... To be honest my gut feeling is that its the pump, but I want to be 100% sure before spending $5xxx. Im trying to track down an ECU to plug in and see if that fixes it. Mosen have quoted $295+ gst for a used ECU but Im hoping to borrow one from some generous person in the BMW community! Jeff Gray don't seem to have had much experience with SMG's so i'm looking for as much advice as possible. Cheers, Simon

Hi guys. Ive posted a thread in technical regarding my possible requirement for an ECU here: http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....showtopic=45460 What I'm requesting is the LEASE of an SMG ECU. Purely to plug in and see if it will eliminate my SMG problems. Im happy to pay a fee for this obviously. Im happy to negotiate with someone for this but strait off Im willing got offer $100 for anyone who can lend it to me for a a matter of days. Of course any courier costs i'll cover. Would really appreciate this or even if someone can point me in the direction of someone who may have an ECU available. Cheers! Simon

Hi Guys, Having done countless hours of trawling existing SMG threads worldwide, I've decided to add to that list with what I believe is a slightly unique problem. My '02 E46 M3 SMG has developed the common(ish) refusal of engaging 1st gear and also jumping out of gear without warning while underway. This becomes worse as the car becomes warm. Just to clear things up, the usual suspects like hood sensor, 'salmon relay' and fluid/gear position sensors have been checked or replaced with no change to the problem. After 5 hours of diagnostics with Jeff Gray BMW chch, I have been told that it is likely to be a pump failure. However they also said its possibly an ECU problem. The reason they believe it could be ECU is because when the the pump fails to provide sufficient pressure they were able to manually dail up the pressure using the dealers ISIS computer attached. So the pump has the ability to provide pressure when it is instructed to.. However, perhaps the pump is working fine but the accumulator is not holding pressure long enough? What I don't understand is why the ECU isn't telling the pump to work once the pressure becomes too low. Im looking at a $5k fee for the pump incl. labour, which is far from ideal. What do you think I should do? replace the ECU to eliminate the possibility first? Im 90% sure the pump is the issue but not sure if I should outlay the money for an ECU just to be sure. I think I can pick up an ECU from ebay for less that $500 delivered. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. Cheers, Simon

Thanks for all the good info guys. Im learning a lot. Unfortunately the hard way. Still weighing up my options. At this stage im still leaning towards purchasing a used engine. However i want to explore all options first. Obviously I would much rather have the original engine rebuilt, even if I have to outlay a few more thousand dollars to do so. But if its twice the price of a 2nd hand engine, i just cant justify it. Anyone out there have a VANOS unit that has been removed from their engine thats up for sale??? Ive been told by several race car builders and wreckers that some guys like to bypass the VANOS all together and run fixed timing. Therefore there must be at least a few units floating round somewhere? If I can source a 2nd hand vanos setup, the rebuild is looking possible. Again, thanks for the info.

Cheers. I havnt owned a car for 3 years because of living overseas and to step straight into this shitshow is not ideal! Im not sure of the root cause yet but I will be making sure I find out. Ive had so many people tell me how bulletproof these engines are supposed to be. Even guys who race them up to 200,000 ks. Its been serviced from 0km by Jerry Clayton, Team McMillan and BM Workshop Botany so I can only assume correct oils have been used. Pretty hard to swallow, but sh*t happens.

Thanks!! he's since contacted me.