Low beam problems

[gazzam 0]

Hello All... I am new to the forums but have been reading bimmersport for a while now and am blown away by amount of knowledge you all bring to these forums.

I have a Jap import E46 its a 2000 323i its my first BMW and I don't think it will be my last, what great cars they are.

Anyway took it to get a WOF this morning, first since I have had it, and the guy commented on the strange pattern of the low beams. We had a bit of a look and whoever had the car before me had put blue halogens into the low beam holders but when the muppet put the holders back into the housings he broke off most of the locating lugs on the holders. I am also not sure now if the bulbs had been put the right way up in the holders can anyone confirm for me if the low beam bulbs should be the same way up in their holders as the high beam bulbs.

The guy gave me the warrent so thats good. I dont use the car much at night but I have noticed that the lows are very low.

Cheers

Garry

[Yuen 16]

Welcome Garry. Can you post up some pictures of the lights from the front, and the insides with both low beam and high beam covers removed (assuming E46 has covers like the E36) so we can see the bulb holders, and the lights on at night with the beam pattern (both wall and floor shots if possible for us to see how the light is dispersing).

[gazzam 0]

Welcome Garry. Can you post up some pictures of the lights from the front, and the insides with both low beam and high beam covers removed (assuming E46 has covers like the E36) so we can see the bulb holders, and the lights on at night with the beam pattern (both wall and floor shots if possible for us to see how the light is dispersing).

Hi Yuen...Haven't had a chance yet to take any pics of the beams at night but I have done some research on

the use of 'cool blue' bulbs, link below.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...ue/bad/bad.html

Seems the blue tint bulbs are not very driver friendly and are just a fashion statement unlike the blueish tint of the

HID bulbs which are a totally different animal. I think I'm going change them back to clear halogens.

I have posted some pics of my bulb holders, can you make out from the pics that the one on the left has three tabs broken off and the one on the right has one tab broken. I assume the tabs are for locating the holder into the housing. I think I can still get them in the right position with whats left.

Will check out the beam pattern again after I change the bulbs.

Cheers

Garry

[Yuen 16]

Yes, tinted halogens reduce output at the expense of trying to look like HIDs. HID bulbs are clear btw. Changing back to clear halogen bulbs is a good move - also, make sure to go back to 55w bulbs.

I think you're right that the broken legs may be what's causing your beam problem. Let us know how you go. I suggest you pick up secondhand holders from a wrecker (or new if they don't cost too much) to make your life easier

[elmarco 56]

Good move going back to the standard H7's. Some muppet put some cheap blue bulbs in my E46 as well and I am not happy with them. They are effectively an aesthetic choice over standard H7 halogens. Make sure you get good quality bulbs (like Hella, Philips or Osram) - the cheap nasty ones don't perform as well or last as long. And make sure you don't touch the glass when you are changing them...

There is an argument about the bluish tint being closer to daylight, but that doesn't help if you can't see where you are going. Interestingly, the white light spectrum that HID gives is very narrow and the amount of UV (blue end of the spectrum) produced requires special coatings and lens materials. The blue tint of HID lamps is a byproduct of the arc.

The bulbholders that Bosch have used are interesting... Better than having the old spring system, but still an odd bulbholder. The only saving grace is that they are completely removable from the lamp and harness.

I have had mine out, and the pins that yours are missing are actually the only thing that orients the bulb in the correct position (filament position is absolutely critical in these lamps as the beam pattern is controlled by the reflector not the lens - hence the quality bulbs being better).

So it is entirely possible that your beam pattern has been affected by the bulb not sitting correctly. Having said this, my low beam pattern is a bit spotty (bright and dark spots) and I reckon it is the bulbs.

[Yuen 16]

The blue tint of HID lamps is a byproduct of the arc.

elmarco, are you talking about the blue/purple flicker that some HID lamps produce? AFAIK that has nothing to do with the bulbs, but rather the projectors.

... my low beam pattern is a bit spotty (bright and dark spots) and I reckon it is the bulbs.

Could it be the reflector/projector? Just thinking if it's the bulbs then the intensity of the beam should be affected instead of the pattern.

[elmarco 56]

elmarco, are you talking about the blue/purple flicker that some HID lamps produce? AFAIK that has nothing to do with the bulbs, but rather the projectors.

Could it be the reflector/projector? Just thinking if it's the bulbs then the intensity of the beam should be affected instead of the pattern.

That's correct Yuen, but not what I was meaning. I'm talking about the colour of the light itself which comes from the arc - to you and me it is 'white', but HID arc's produce a narrower area of the white spectrum towards the blue end (well much narrower than an H7 anyway). So if you compare a halogen to HID on a white wall, the halogen looks a lot more yellow (even though they are both still technically white) and the HID has a bluish hue.

HID burners also change colour as they age - they start off more yellowish, and become whiter as they get older. They are absolutely fantastic to drive with - the only downside is the cost (they are still mucho dinero and not looking to get any cheaper in the near future).

Mine low beams are a bit patchy with a few bright and dark spots although the beam pattern is generally pretty good (better than anything else I have owned anyway). The reflector looks fine (no fingerprints or corrosion) and both patterns seem to be slightly different on the wall but we will never tell exactly without a goniophotometer... So, I think the reflectors are as they were new. The bulbholders are all OK and seat correctly on the reflector.

I know Bosch (now Automotive Lighting) do a reasonable job (used to supply them, and worked for their competitors for a number of years ) so I am suspicious of my low beam bulbs initially. High beam is fine and on std H7's but the low beams are super high quality "Race Auto" brand blue bulbs with no E markings... If changing bulbs doesn't improve it (better filament position and none of this blue tinted glass crap), there isn't much I can do (only allowed one set of low beams on a car)!

Maybe I am spiltting hairs - the lights are the best of any car I have owned, but having had rentals with newer technology I am a little jealous!

[elmarco 56]

This shows the difference... A picture is worth 1000 words

http://bartrax.net/hid.htm# also shows the difference - but I'm not advocating anyone try using HID conversion kits (they are both dangerous and illegal in NZ).

I was at Automechanika a couple of years back and saw a Chinese supplier with an HID conversion kit balast and burner running submerged in a bucket of water on the floor... Scary stuff!! Not sure what they were trying to demonstrate!

[gazzam 0]

This shows the difference... A picture is worth 1000 words

http://bartrax.net/hid.htm# also shows the difference - but I'm not advocating anyone try using HID conversion kits (they are both dangerous and illegal in NZ).

I was at Automechanika a couple of years back and saw a Chinese supplier with an HID conversion kit balast and burner running submerged in a bucket of water on the floor... Scary stuff!! Not sure what they were trying to demonstrate!

Have just noticed today that the headlamp lens directly in front of the low beams..on both sides.. has some distortion.

There is an area about 40-50cm wide by 15cm high directly in front of the low bulbs that seems to have heaps of very small cracks.

The lens feels quite smooth on the outside, the cracks seem to be on the inside.

I'm thinking that my muppet... sorry elmarco dont want to be mean to muppets... might have had over rated bulbs in the lows that have

overheated the lenses and caused the cracking.

My next question..can the lense be replaced or am I up for new headlights??

[gazzam 0]

Have just noticed today that the headlamp lens directly in front of the low beams..on both sides.. has some distortion.

There is an area about 40-50cm wide by 15cm high directly in front of the low bulbs that seems to have heaps of very small cracks.

The lens feels quite smooth on the outside, the cracks seem to be on the inside.

I'm thinking that my muppet... sorry elmarco dont want to be mean to muppets... might have had over rated bulbs in the lows that have

overheated the lenses and caused the cracking.

My next question..can the lense be replaced or am I up for new headlights??

Better make that mm's instead of cm's...looks like I need new glasses as well as new headlights.

Edited May 26, 2008 by gazzam

[Yuen 16]

That's correct Yuen, but not what I was meaning. I'm talking about the colour of the light itself which comes from the arc - to you and me it is 'white', but HID arc's produce a narrower area of the white spectrum towards the blue end (well much narrower than an H7 anyway). So if you compare a halogen to HID on a white wall, the halogen looks a lot more yellow (even though they are both still technically white) and the HID has a bluish hue.

HID burners also change colour as they age - they start off more yellowish, and become whiter as they get older. They are absolutely fantastic to drive with - the only downside is the cost (they are still mucho dinero and not looking to get any cheaper in the near future).

Mine low beams are a bit patchy with a few bright and dark spots although the beam pattern is generally pretty good (better than anything else I have owned anyway). The reflector looks fine (no fingerprints or corrosion) and both patterns seem to be slightly different on the wall but we will never tell exactly without a goniophotometer... So, I think the reflectors are as they were new. The bulbholders are all OK and seat correctly on the reflector.

I know Bosch (now Automotive Lighting) do a reasonable job (used to supply them, and worked for their competitors for a number of years ) so I am suspicious of my low beam bulbs initially. High beam is fine and on std H7's but the low beams are super high quality "Race Auto" brand blue bulbs with no E markings... If changing bulbs doesn't improve it (better filament position and none of this blue tinted glass crap), there isn't much I can do (only allowed one set of low beams on a car)!

Maybe I am spiltting hairs - the lights are the best of any car I have owned, but having had rentals with newer technology I am a little jealous!

Yep - so we're talking about HIDs colour shifting as they age, and standard HIDs being ~4300k... mind you, aftermarket kits are ridiculous, lots of guys out there are trying to get the blue/purple flicker the wrong way by going for high kelvin bulbs. Road hazards! I don't know what's so cool about seeing everything in blue or worse, purple.

Does your car have the factory HIDs? Couldn't really tell from what you've said so far. Oh, and... gonio-what?

I was at Automechanika a couple of years back and saw a Chinese supplier with an HID conversion kit balast and burner running submerged in a bucket of water on the floor... Scary stuff!! Not sure what they were trying to demonstrate!

Yeah, seen that before too. I'm thinking they even they don't see any real benefit from it - but if it can make consumers go 'Wow! Waterproof lighting!' they'd probably get a few more sales!

Have just noticed today that the headlamp lens directly in front of the low beams..on both sides.. has some distortion.

There is an area about 40-50cm wide by 15cm high directly in front of the low bulbs that seems to have heaps of very small cracks.

The lens feels quite smooth on the outside, the cracks seem to be on the inside.

I'm thinking that my muppet... sorry elmarco dont want to be mean to muppets... might have had over rated bulbs in the lows that have

overheated the lenses and caused the cracking.

My next question..can the lense be replaced or am I up for new headlights??

Ouch... the overwatted bulbs was exactly what I thought when I read that. I know the E36 had swappable outer lenses, but I'm not sure about the E46, though I suspect they're the same. You can tell by whether the outer lens has clips that attach it to the lamp housing. If they're replaceable then of course one option is to buy new outer lenses, but secondhand units (housing + lens) may be comparable in price, and also your current reflectors and other inner parts may have been damaged by the excess heat, so I'd check before making a decision.

Are the E46's outer lenses plastic or glass? I'm guessing glass but surprised it's cracking.

[elmarco 56]

Have just noticed today that the headlamp lens directly in front of the low beams..on both sides.. has some distortion.

There is an area about 40-50cm wide by 15cm high directly in front of the low bulbs that seems to have heaps of very small cracks.

The lens feels quite smooth on the outside, the cracks seem to be on the inside.

I'm thinking that my muppet... sorry elmarco dont want to be mean to muppets... might have had over rated bulbs in the lows that have

overheated the lenses and caused the cracking.

My next question..can the lense be replaced or am I up for new headlights??

Oh dear... Sounds exactly like what has happened. Is there any bubbling or some yellowing as well?

The lenses will be polycarbonate and are most likely glued to the housing (haven't had a close look at mine but this is normally how modern headlamps are put together). While I have never asked the question I don't think it is likely that you will be able to buy new lenses by themselves.

Muppets will eventually take over the world. Oops - they have already started by the look of the driving on my way to work this morning!!

[elmarco 56]

Yep - so we're talking about HIDs colour shifting as they age, and standard HIDs being ~4300k... mind you, aftermarket kits are ridiculous, lots of guys out there are trying to get the blue/purple flicker the wrong way by going for high kelvin bulbs. Road hazards! I don't know what's so cool about seeing everything in blue or worse, purple.

Does your car have the factory HIDs? Couldn't really tell from what you've said so far. Oh, and... gonio-what?

Yeah, seen that before too. I'm thinking they even they don't see any real benefit from it - but if it can make consumers go 'Wow! Waterproof lighting!' they'd probably get a few more sales!

Ouch... the overwatted bulbs was exactly what I thought when I read that. I know the E36 had swappable outer lenses, but I'm not sure about the E46, though I suspect they're the same. You can tell by whether the outer lens has clips that attach it to the lamp housing. If they're replaceable then of course one option is to buy new outer lenses, but secondhand units (housing + lens) may be comparable in price, and also your current reflectors and other inner parts may have been damaged by the excess heat, so I'd check before making a decision.

Are the E46's outer lenses plastic or glass? I'm guessing glass but surprised it's cracking.

No, sadly mine doesn't have HID. Wouldn't mind, but can't be bothered with all the retrofitting of washer systems etc or the cost . Wouldn't have liked to be around at startup if there were any leaks in that u-boat system I saw!!

Goniophotometer - it's the turntable and photometer setup used to measure lamps. Lighting rules specify an intensity (in candela) at a specific offset (horizontal and vertical in degrees) from the normal axis of the lamp. Depending on the lamp function, it covers a range of measurement points and the intensity is specified at each point (eg: 50cd at 5L 5U). Some functions have loads of points, some don't. And they can vary significantly between SAE (US market) and ECE (pretty much everywhere else). Normally only found in lighting laboratories or industrial research outfits....

[Yuen 16]

No, sadly mine doesn't have HID. Wouldn't mind, but can't be bothered with all the retrofitting of washer systems etc or the cost . Wouldn't have liked to be around at startup if there were any leaks in that u-boat system I saw!!

Goniophotometer - it's the turntable and photometer setup used to measure lamps. Lighting rules specify an intensity (in candela) at a specific offset (horizontal and vertical in degrees) from the normal axis of the lamp. Depending on the lamp function, it covers a range of measurement points and the intensity is specified at each point (eg: 50cd at 5L 5U). Some functions have loads of points, some don't. And they can vary significantly between SAE (US market) and ECE (pretty much everywhere else). Normally only found in lighting laboratories or industrial research outfits....

Thanks for the info. I'll say it again, you learn something new every day...

If the headlights are glued together the same way the E39 CELIS headlights are, you can bake them to take them apart. Probably more trouble than it's worth, though.

[gazzam 0]

Thanks for the info. I'll say it again, you learn something new every day...

If the headlights are glued together the same way the E39 CELIS headlights are, you can bake them to take them apart. Probably more trouble than it's worth, though.

Yep..a bit of a closer inspect shows that the lens on the drivers side does have some distortion in the polly.. not so bad on the other side.. cant believe I didnt see this earlier...I guess I just goes to show love is blind.. fell in love with this car as soon as I saw it .. no pre nup.

[jochen 4]

Sounds like your only solution to your problem is new headlights.

Time to start trolling around the wreckers.... or watching trade me...

[Yuen 16]

Yep..a bit of a closer inspect shows that the lens on the drivers side does have some distortion in the polly.. not so bad on the other side.. cant believe I didnt see this earlier...I guess I just goes to show love is blind.. fell in love with this car as soon as I saw it .. no pre nup.

It's what inside that counts You don't get a pre-nup just because her glasses are broken do you

[elmarco 56]

I guess I just goes to show love is blind.. fell in love with this car as soon as I saw it .. no pre nup.

Hahahaha - love that line!!

I just put some real bulbs (Hella / Osram H7's) in mine and the performance is loads better. There are still some (all be it fewer of them) bright and dark spots which are reflector design (Bosch must have been perfecting the design still ) but the overall performance is sh*t loads better. Much brighter!!

I can't believe I put up with "Race Auto" brand blue bulbs for 6 months....

Shame on me!!

[Yuen 16]

Hahahaha - love that line!!

I just put some real bulbs (Hella / Osram H7's) in mine and the performance is loads better. There are still some (all be it fewer of them) bright and dark spots which are reflector design (Bosch must have been perfecting the design still ) but the overall performance is sh*t loads better. Much brighter!!

I can't believe I put up with "Race Auto" brand blue bulbs for 6 months....

Shame on me!!

elmarco, it's ok, at least you've seen the light

Never go back to the dark side again!

I think I know what you mean by the bright and dark spots - they are really obvious when you put a HID kit into those lights, seen a few E46s with them.

[elmarco 56]

I think I know what you mean by the bright and dark spots - they are really obvious when you put a HID kit into those lights, seen a few E46s with them.

I'll bet! Something like a mix of lasers and black holes? Precisely why they aren't legal....

I can just see the Bosch engineers cringing after all the 3D modeling and years of engineering that went into those lamps just to see some monkey who think he knows better than the designer and put an HID burner in there.