E30 starter grinding after manual conv.

[tire 10]

1983 e30 323i, g240 gearbox.

So I've recently completed converting my e30 to manual. Today I went to start it for the first time since the conversion. I got a loud and some what high pitched grinding noise from the starter motor, the engine itself would not turn over. The noise continues for as long as I've got the key turned.

The battery has plenty of power. And I have the inhibitor wired up properly (well I assume it's proper as the starter wouldn't fire if it wasn't)

Where should I start looking?

FWIW, the starter is the one that was on the car when the auto was in.

I'm kinda desperate as I'm moving house in 5 days so I don't want to have to get a trailer!

Thanks in advance

Max

[tire 10]

I am able to turn the motor over by hand via the flywheel (took the inspection plate off) if that helps.

Edit (to save the triple post): I've compared the auto flexplate thing to the flywheel I've got, and the teeth on the flywheel are further towards the back of the car than the flexplate, so I'm thinking the I need to change starter motors to one from a manual car? That or I've got the flywheel on back to front - is that even possible?? lol.

Edited August 9, 2009 by tastic

[QuickSilver 0]

Sounds like you have an alignment issue with the starter motor. All starter motors are inter-changeable between m20's, some have a small housing and some have a large but they are all essentially the same. There's no "Auto" vs "Manual" starter motor. I'd say pull it out, try re-install, if no luck your going to have to drop the gearbox again. I forget exactly but did you install the spacer between the motor and the flywheel?

[tire 10]

Sounds like you have an alignment issue with the starter motor. All starter motors are inter-changeable between m20's, some have a small housing and some have a large but they are all essentially the same. There's no "Auto" vs "Manual" starter motor. I'd say pull it out, try re-install, if no luck your going to have to drop the gearbox again. I forget exactly but did you install the spacer between the motor and the flywheel?

Thanks my friend, I had just made arrangements to get a new starter motor but I will try just taking this one out and putting it on again first like you'v e said, it is a peicapiss with 2 people anyway.

Spacer? No I don't remember any spacer, unless your talking about that big metal plate that sort of acts like a gasket between the gbox and the motor (this)? I'm trying to find what you might be talking about on realoem but everything is dual mass flywheel - can you throw up a pic of what you mean?

[Guest FrantiC]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?mo...hg=11&fg=20

Number 10. It goes on the bolt side of the flywheel and spaces the bolts.. Any chance you put it between the flywheel and the engine?

I had a similar issue not long ago, I killed 2 starter motors as they would work and sometimes wouldn't, it would crank really horribly or just grind. Sort of fixed itself after pulling the gearbox out and reinstalling the flywheel, Then putting the gearbox back on and startermotor back. I think it may have been a slight mis-alignment, Not too sure...

Are you sure you have the right flywheel, an m20 one not an m10?

[tire 10]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?mo...hg=11&fg=20

Number 10. It goes on the bolt side of the flywheel and spaces the bolts.. Any chance you put it between the flywheel and the engine?

I had a similar issue not long ago, I killed 2 starter motors as they would work and sometimes wouldn't, it would crank really horribly or just grind. Sort of fixed itself after pulling the gearbox out and reinstalling the flywheel, Then putting the gearbox back on and startermotor back. I think it may have been a slight mis-alignment, Not too sure...

Are you sure you have the right flywheel, an m20 one not an m10?

Ok I'm pretty sure I've put that spacer on the wrong side of the flywheel. sigh, out comes the gearbox!

I'm pretty sure the fly is from an m20, at least that's what the guy told me. He got the kit from a 323i, I've even seen the engine.

Wish me luck eh.

[tibbs.james 1]

I think the spacer is the likely culprit

When i did my conversion on my old E30 I measured up the flex plate and flywheel and made sure to put the spacer on the same way that it came out.

I had no issues.

[Guest FrantiC]

Ok I'm pretty sure I've put that spacer on the wrong side of the flywheel. sigh, out comes the gearbox!

I'm pretty sure the fly is from an m20, at least that's what the guy told me. He got the kit from a 323i, I've even seen the engine.

Wish me luck eh.

Hard luck man, Hope you have as much fun as I did

[tire 10]

Got everything apart last night and discovered the spacer was in fact installed on the correct side! So that leaves me somehwat perplexed.

I think the next stage is to mount the starter somehow without the gearbox and crank it with the fly attached to see whats happening.

Oh an I counted the teeth of the auto flexplate that was in and the fly I'm using - both 137.

Will update again after tonight..

[melowpuf 19]

Got everything apart last night and discovered the spacer was in fact installed on the correct side! So that leaves me somehwat perplexed.

I think the next stage is to mount the starter somehow without the gearbox and crank it with the fly attached to see whats happening.

Oh an I counted the teeth of the auto flexplate that was in and the fly I'm using - both 137.

Will update again after tonight..

I've had a few cases where the starter motor is not lined up properly when its mounting bolts are tightened. Makes a horrible grinding noise while starting. You can move the starter quite a bit when the bolts are loosened. I have just loosened the mounting bolts, readjust the starter motor tighten again, try again. Have only ever had to readjust the starter once on the different cars it has happened on.

[Deano 1]

1983 e30 323i, g240 gearbox.

So I've recently completed converting my e30 to manual. Today I went to start it for the first time since the conversion. I got a loud and some what high pitched grinding noise from the starter motor, the engine itself would not turn over. The noise continues for as long as I've got the key turned.

The battery has plenty of power. And I have the inhibitor wired up properly (well I assume it's proper as the starter wouldn't fire if it wasn't)

Where should I start looking?

FWIW, the starter is the one that was on the car when the auto was in.

I'm kinda desperate as I'm moving house in 5 days so I don't want to have to get a trailer!

Thanks in advance

Max

I had this. Do have the 2 small locating dowels on the either side of the block for the gearbox to mount on to.

[QuickSilver 0]

Have you put it all back together already? If you have just give it another go, it could be that it was miss-aligned and during the removal and re-installation of all the components you sorted the problem without realizing.

[Gus 5]

All starter motors are inter-changeable between m20's, some have a small housing and some have a large but they are all essentially the same.

ah wrong, you need a manual starter mate for the flywheel - they have a different teeth pattern.have had the same prob before

[Silver Fox 43]

Sorry Gus,, done 4 conversions now, and used the auto starter every time. Never had any problems other than one which wouldn't go on the dowel properly, and took a bit of hitting to get it to seat right.

[QuickSilver 0]

ah wrong, you need a manual starter mate for the flywheel - they have a different teeth pattern.have had the same prob before

I've done 2 swaps too both using the original starter...?

[tire 10]

Could not mount the starter with any confidence without the gearbox so I just started reassembling. I've got an extra pair of hands to help me lift the box back on this weekend so by sunday arvo everything should be back together for take 2.

Oh and I tested the starter to see if the solenoid was pushing the gear out properly - tick.

I've had a few cases where the starter motor is not lined up properly when its mounting bolts are tightened. Makes a horrible grinding noise while starting. You can move the starter quite a bit when the bolts are loosened. I have just loosened the mounting bolts, readjust the starter motor tighten again, try again. Have only ever had to readjust the starter once on the different cars it has happened on.

Thaks, will try this if it doesn't work this time around

I had this. Do have the 2 small locating dowels on the either side of the block for the gearbox to mount on to.

Hmm I cant remember any such dowels, cbf going out to garage again but will check when I do. Ta

Have you put it all back together already? If you have just give it another go, it could be that it was miss-aligned and during the removal and re-installation of all the components you sorted the problem without realizing.

I'm hoping this is the case. Will update Sunday / Sat if I'm fast.

Cheers all

[tire 10]

Box back in, starter mounted, did the same thing. Readjusted the starter, still did the same thing. I've got someone to charge the battery for me overnight, if that dusnt fix it my only other avenue is to get the starter from the car that this manual conversion came from.

Deano - I found those 2 locating dowels, they were attached to the auto. not going to bother with them as I cant see how they will help?

oh yea one more thing - you know that big thin metal plate that goes between the motor and gearbox... is that meant to be there with manual boxes? It was there with the auto. Guessing yes but I thought I mightaswell ask.

Gunna go get wasted now

Edited August 16, 2009 by tastic

[Guest FrantiC]

Box back in, starter mounted, did the same thing. Readjusted the starter, still did the same thing. I've got someone to charge the battery for me overnight, if that dusnt fix it my only other avenue is to get the starter from the car that this manual conversion came from.

Deano - I found those 2 locating dowels, they were attached to the auto. not going to bother with them as I cant see how they will help?

oh yea one more thing - you know that big thin metal plate that goes between the motor and gearbox... is that meant to be there with manual boxes? It was there with the auto. Guessing yes but I thought I mightaswell ask.

Gunna go get wasted now

The dowels align the gearbox to the block..

Yes that plate must be there, it is a dust shield.

[hotwire 352]

Strange problem & you seem to have covered bases of options.

Can confirm though - starters definitely the same & interchange - auto/manual & early (big) & later (small - reduction)

[tire 10]

The dowels align the gearbox to the block..

Surely the 4 bolts take care of that?

[Silver Fox 43]

The dowels allow less movement, are more precise, and also locate the dust cover in the right place.

[tire 10]

Gah. I'l go try pry them out of the auto now.

[QuickSilver 0]

Max - I once pulled apart an entire motor just to get one dowel because I was too impatient to wait for the cylinder head that was getting tested to get back ! (It had a dowel stuck in it) haha.

Edited August 16, 2009 by QuickSilver

[tire 10]

On monday night I was supposed to be chucking the gearbox back in with the dowels but my helper to lift the box in bailed. I was eating my self up so I just said f**k it and did it myself. Last time I tried the danger of dropping the vtec on my face was too much but I managed to do it this time, somehow, and bada bing it started! So it was those poxy little dowels all along, amazing how fine the tolerance is.

Last night I bolted up the rest of the stuff and tonight drove it out of the garage for the first time In like 3 months Better go update my project thread.

Thanks for the help all and full credit to Deano for the correct diagnosis!