Guest ///Matt Report post Posted December 10, 2003 Did australia and new zealand get these? coz im thinking about turbocharging my car, and want to know if i can get one off one of these cars or will i have to get a custom made one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted December 10, 2003 are you thinking for the manifold only? If your doing a cheapo turbo jobby you can flip the existing manifold upside down and have a 2 into 1 converter. Your going to need to replace your ECU also, the one you have can't be turboed. Turbo Diesel cars aren't exactly quick.. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 325eye Report post Posted December 10, 2003 I think you mean can the turbo system be taken from a TD E30 and put onto a petrol E30... Short answer No... Even if it could Turbo Technology, (aspecially the turbo chargers) has come so far in last 10 years you would be fool to use gear from the 80's. If your planning to enjoy your forced induction for any length of problem free time do not take the cheap option... I could go on for hours about the ins and outs of forced induction but more direct questions may be better... If you have any... When your considering budget I think for a 8PSI system (Which means no internal mods or rebuilds) $10,000 is a minimum... Which will include hardware, computers, tuning, and brakes... Do not expect change for a good turbo setup... People will tell you they turbo charged their car in Uncle Dugs garage for $99.95 but it is just not true... If $10,000 sounds too high for you (and I am crossing myself when I say this) try a Jap engine which is already turbo charged... YUK!!! but it would be better than a crap job on the NA BMW engine. Plus I think a couple of guys on this forum have done this type of conversion so can help you out. Also I do not know you age but consider... Insurance... $1000 + PA Suspention to handle the power... $3000 - $XXXX All manner of running gear upgrades... $XXXX Fuel - Twice what you used to... Etc. Etc. at a minimum... Do not want to put you off... I plan to supercharge my M20 engine, but just be aware that there is alot more to forced induction than a manifold... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ///Matt Report post Posted December 10, 2003 (edited) Ok so i want to turbocharge my current engine. B23, i dont want to swap the engine coz i just spent 2000 on getting the b23 replaced coz the old one blew. So what would i have to do, Lower compression, new injectors, turbo, intercooler, piping, Bov,is microtech a good Engine managment system. Edited December 10, 2003 by ///Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ///Matt Report post Posted December 10, 2003 Would a T28 off a sr20 be big enough, also i wanna run a bit of boost so what can i do to lower compression, Thicker head gasket, can i use shorter rods, or what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 325eye Report post Posted December 10, 2003 You need to know where you want to go... A goal... 1000HP 500HP 200HP etc. With out a goal you do not know where to start let a lone finish. If you want more than 8PSI or more than a 30-40% increase in power, which it sounds like you do, then your in for some serious mods... Good base... B23 Wrong set-up... with a ratio of about 11.5:1 (give or take) this is well above a more friendly turbo compression ratio of 7-8:1... Sadly you will at the very least need to add a bigger head gasket to get this down, better yet add forged low compression pistons and port and polish the head... Then you will be ready to rock. (Unless you really want to bullet proof the engine with a rebuilt bottom end crank, rods, etc.) If money allows this would be worth doing, even if you needed to save for another 12 months, but you are probably looking at 6-7K right there... Now being in Australia you can probably get a good Turbo kit for your car with all the parts etc... Reaserch into this... A kit which has been tested and includes all the parts is worth its wieght in gold... (almost :-) If you want something original... The Turbo... A T28 of an SR20DET... Great but prehaps only efficient for 11PSI You will need something a little bigger I feel, no point naming 10 setups just do some reaserch... (There is a real science in choosing the right turbo and without knowing you power goals I cannot suggest the right one). Plumbing Will need to be custom done, incl manifolds etc. (Note this does not have to be 3" Mandrel bent stainless, like an exhaust) Intercooler BIG!!! Fuel BIG!!! new RX7 type injectors 400-500CC big fuel pumps... prehaps a new fuel rail. HPC coating or heat sheilding on the hot parts. Clutch Brakes Suspention Exhuast Computer... Get the best you can... I like WOLF3D... This just skims the surface of the details, but you would be better to get more specific with your local tuner... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bimmer boy 21 Report post Posted December 10, 2003 i didnt really know wat you wer just on about but i want it -ryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted December 11, 2003 I think you mean can the turbo system be taken from a TD E30 and put onto a petrol E30... Short answer No... Even if it could Turbo Technology, (aspecially the turbo chargers) has come so far in last 10 years you would be fool to use gear from the 80's. If your planning to enjoy your forced induction for any length of problem free time do not take the cheap option... I could go on for hours about the ins and outs of forced induction but more direct questions may be better... If you have any... When your considering budget I think for a 8PSI system (Which means no internal mods or rebuilds) $10,000 is a minimum... Which will include hardware, computers, tuning, and brakes... Do not expect change for a good turbo setup... People will tell you they turbo charged their car in Uncle Dugs garage for $99.95 but it is just not true... If $10,000 sounds too high for you (and I am crossing myself when I say this) try a Jap engine which is already turbo charged... YUK!!! but it would be better than a crap job on the NA BMW engine. Plus I think a couple of guys on this forum have done this type of conversion so can help you out. Also I do not know you age but consider... Insurance... $1000 + PA Suspention to handle the power... $3000 - $XXXX All manner of running gear upgrades... $XXXX Fuel - Twice what you used to... Etc. Etc. at a minimum... Do not want to put you off... I plan to supercharge my M20 engine, but just be aware that there is alot more to forced induction than a manifold... Matt hmmmm.. I don't really agree with that price. This is the bottom line. Your car (///Matt) probably does .. 70 - 80 kW now in its stock form. You can get 120 - 130 kW @ 8 - 10 psi from it. $10000 would get you a full motor rebuild etc etc etc. It depends how much you are doing for your self. Since when did the b23 have 11.5:1 . Its 9.5:1 which is plenty turbo friendly for low boost. Depending how poked your suspension is.. it will live. Your brakes will still stop you.. the weight of the car is only going to increase by around 50kg at the most. I'm doing a $4000 setup and aiming for 120 kW.. which should push the car along nicely enough. Link ECU $2000 installed + tuned Custom Manifold $400 Perhaps T28, T3.. undecided.. working my way through Maximum Boost by Corky Bell Modified Distributor and Link doing Advance/Retard spark (Free) Any higher flow injectors will do, fuel pressure is OK. (Cheap if not free) Custom tubing (Cheap) MR2 intercooler - this will change when its affordable. (Free) Glen (e30-323ti) helping me enormously (Free, although i'm sure he will find hes getting something ) My plan. The ECU is getting installed in Feb. I'll drive it like that (turboless) Untill I work out the problems with that. Then bolt up the turbo (and get it retuned) and see how it goes. At this level, its mainly trial and error, hardly a science. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 325eye Report post Posted December 11, 2003 That is a far enough approach, not many people have a bottom less pit of cash, although if "trial and error" lead to piston and valve getting a little too close... I would say $10,000 is more the correct figure... Also I strongly disagree with you comment (Andrew) regarding your approach to brakes and suspension... Any car with a power output of + 30% over standard should have a suspension and brake upgrade... It has nothing to do with weight, but more to do with speed... If you are not going to go faster why would you add more power? You won't see an M3 sporting the same gear as a 318i, but in terms of power putting even 8PSI through the B23 is going to bring you up to M3ish output... I think it is basic logic to have a chassis, which will handle the power between its legs. My advice is to bring the rest of the car up to speed before you tackle the power plant... But hay... if you stack it due to bad brakes or suspension, try to do it with no other cars around... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted December 11, 2003 Well, there is a limit you can go on the roads.. So my car will stop just as fast from 200 as it did before. BUT I am changing my brakes and etc.. so who am i to talk. Its not so much trial and error, as long as the car is tuned correctly and everything works.. I really don't see why you need 10000 to turbo a car. Hell i'd expect 400 - 500 hp from my m20 if i was sinking that kind of money into it.. and then yes.. you'd need strengthened everything. what i'm arguing is it won't cost 10000 to turbo his car, that part is relatively cheap. Perhaps the ancillary items will add greatly to the cost.. then again not all of us need bilstein etc.. it goes on. My car is getting done (the ECU at least) at SpeedTech in welly, you can have a look at it when its done in Feb and see what you think (I'm not someone who does something half-assed). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted December 11, 2003 325eye: How much DIY have you included in that $10000, if any?? That is what makes thins cost so much, if you are paying someone $60/hr to build an exhaust + materials the cost easily blows out. When it is DIY it costs what you pay for the materials, an exhaust for example will easily double or triple over the material costs if you are paying someone to do it. Bottom line is "if you are paying someone to do the work be prepared for it to cost $$$" As far as upgrading brakes etc... Straight from the certifiers mouth "If it stops from the factory and you haven't added a huge amount of weight to it, it will still stop the same!!". Personally, I put on the biggest brakes I could fit under my 16's, for piece of mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted December 12, 2003 As far as upgrading brakes etc... Straight from the certifiers mouth "If it stops from the factory and you haven't added a huge amount of weight to it, it will still stop the same!!". EXACTLY!. .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Andrew: Why aren't you at work?? or replying to my PM!! Bloody slackers!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 325eye Report post Posted December 13, 2003 O.K. This is a pretty subjective argument... I feel your approach to brakes is bad, but thats just me... First some assumptions... ///Matt I'm going to make some assumptions about you that may not be fare but need to be stated to further my argument... 1. I assume your knowledge on braking systems is not good. 2. I assume with + 30% power your going to drive faster 3. I assume you will spend longer driving fast... First - Basics of braking... (Andrew etc. you will know the following but for ///Matt's benifit)... Brakes work by simple physics... Kenetic energy... (your car moving) is turned into Heat energy... through friction between the pads and disks... At a point you get so much heat within your disks and pads that no more can be added... This is what you experience when your brakes fade, or in other words, do not stop the car any more. With the high chance of you both driving faster, and doing this for extened periods, your probably going to start losing braking ability, why? becasue your going to produce kenetic energy faster than your brakes can turn it into heat energy. No Brakes... No Stopping... Of course wieght adds to this problem because more weight going fast equals more kenetic energy, but your only adding speed. To fix this you add better brakes... Vented slotted disks... Allow heat to excape faster... Bigger disks... Create more friction because the pads grip furhter away from the center. (imagine a record spinning will it slow faster when you press the middle or the edge?) Better pads... Pads that can absorb more heat... Bigger calapers... (Is that how you spell it ) ect ect ect... I think this gives you a simple overview... I don't suggest better brakes and suspention because I am a chassis freak or a go slow grandad... It is for your safety and the safety of those around you... Whats more the performance of you car is going to increase just as much from a good chassis as it is from double the HP... If we were on a race track with equal HP and cars only I had bigger brakes, you would lose every time... Just consider it before you jump in with twice the HP your car was ever meant to have... Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Andrew Report post Posted December 14, 2003 Bigger disks... Create more friction because the pads grip furhter away from the center. (imagine a record spinning will it slow faster when you press the middle or the edge?) Nit picking.. but the larger rotor means that the pad can exert more torque on the wheel. I don't think its fair to assume he is going to be driving faster more. Its more the.. ability to go faster that i'd enjoy. But yes.. UPGRADE your brakes.. it still won't cost you 10 grand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
