Skyline Brakes E30

[Fabo 0]

Hey just wondering if anyone has gone down the cheap road, or if it is even applicable to make custom brackets for skyline brakes to be put on a e30?

Thanks any input appreciated

[JiB 0]

I've done this.. It's not a cheap upgrade to do properly. Budget around $2k+ excluding cert.

You will run into clearance problems because of the shallow bell height needed for e30s and the bulkiness of the Nissan calipers.

[Jono51 59]

in the process of making an upgrade kit to bolt straight on

could make up one more extra kit

cheers

Jon

[Apex Effects 3]

interested

[Fabo 0]

I've done this.. It's not a cheap upgrade to do properly. Budget around $2k+ excluding cert.

You will run into clearance problems because of the shallow bell height needed for e30s and the bulkiness of the Nissan calipers.

Bugger, I thought it might be cheaper seeming its only 400 or under for a whole set of brakes so whats the expensive part?

[Fabo 0]

in the process of making an upgrade kit to bolt straight on

could make up one more extra kit

cheers

Jon

How much?

[CamB 48]

The expensive part is the "everything else". You need:

- the right rotors, front and rear (not Skyline ones), redrilled for 4x100

- if you don't have the right calipers to match the rotors, get the skyline calipers narrowed

- wheel studs, as you'll never get wheel nuts in through non-hubcentric rotors

- the adaptors and some suitable hardware

- new brake lines, probably braided

- new pads (chances of the $400 calipers having the right pads are low)

- a cert

- new wheels to fit over them

- tyres for the wheels.

JiB started with $350 calipers from memory, so if he says its $2k + the cert (and wheels), he won't be far off.

[Mike 1]

I wouldn't even bother with non-hubcentric rotors, almost certain it will shimmy. E30's are bad enough for this as it is with rotors that fit properly.

unless you go with custom rotors there are very few OEM items that work, you need the right centerbore and pcd (these can sometimes be modified to work), offset also needs to be right, too low and you wont have caliper clearance, too high and you'll hit the ball joints. Lastly you want them bigger than standard items. Unless you have connections you're easily looking at $200 per rotor here.

Depending on what cylinder size you go with you may also need to upgrade you MC and/or get a bias valve.

I'd also given any second hand calipers a freshen up with new seals.

All this plus what cam mentioned and it does get expensive very quickly.

[JiB 0]

For the record, I used non-hubcentric rotors (+1mm), and I didn't have any shimmy.

I think if I were to do it again, I'd get custom slip-on spacers with long studs. Less compliance than a bolt on solution I think. And with a custom slipon, you could have a staggered inner bore for non-hubcentric rotor gap and the rotor lip. The outer bore would then be the exact size you need for the wheels you choose.

17" wheels would be the easiest, the wheel choice narrows very very quickly as you go for a smaller diameter wheel.

[CamB 48]

Depending on what cylinder size you go with you may also need to upgrade you MC and/or get a bias valve.

That's what I forgot in the list! Thanks Mike. Without upgrading the master cylinder you have a big mushy pedal.

[JiB 0]

I wonder whether an upgrade to a bias'd pedal box would be better? More access to the caliper's potential without the spongy bar in the way?

[Mike 1]

^I'd assume so, but thats getting behind what most would consider a 'basic' caliper/rotor upgrade?

I'm surprised non-hubcentric rotors didnt give you any shimmy, and still recommend that people make sure they are though.

I like the slip on spacer option, seeing as its all got to be certed anyway. And this means you're far more likely to find wheels that will clear 4pot calipers

Last bit of advice for the OP - find a certifier and talk to them about what you want to do before spending any money. I'd hate to hear that you've bought a heap of bits only to find they wont work. There are heaps of considerations when upgrading brakes, particularly when there isn't really any OEM bolt on upgrade for E30's. (ignoring 5 stud here)

Edited July 5, 2010 by Mike

[JiB 0]

I meant a pedal box on standard E30 brakes - instead of spending all that money on calipers, etc.

Last bit of advice for the OP - find a certifier and talk to them about what you want to do before spending any money. I'd hate to hear that you've bought a heap of bits only to find they wont work. There are heaps of considerations when upgrading brakes, particularly when there isn't really any OEM bolt on upgrade for E30's. (ignoring 5 stud here)

Probably the best advice yet.

[DRTDVL 0]

Done a lot of work to the pug brakes and the first thing i'll ask is why are you wanting bigger brakes?

Do you have heat problems?

Can you lock your wheels?

You will run into a whole bunch of other problems when you upgrade the front brakes. Increasing mechanic advantage by larger dia brakes and larger total area piston calipers while change your brake bias forward upsetting the the car under braking.

A larger area piston will increase the force working on the pad/disc.

If you increase the master cylinder to overcome the squishy pedal you will change the ratio of master piston size to rear brake total piston area decreasing the effectiveness of the rear brakes even more so.

I'd look at better pads and fluid first. Also larger brakes = more weight

[Jono51 59]

Hey just wondering if anyone has gone down the cheap road, or if it is even applicable to make custom brackets for skyline brakes to be put on a e30?

Thanks any input appreciated

hey mate just curious,

what are you trying to acheive?

just interested, as I've got an M30b35 in an E30 so different power and weight distribution,

by your signature I'm assuming that yours is turbo??

drop me a post mail, better off the thread too much assumption

Mine are hubcentric and non skyline

[Fabo 0]

The expensive part is the "everything else". You need:

- the right rotors, front and rear (not Skyline ones), redrilled for 4x100

- if you don't have the right calipers to match the rotors, get the skyline calipers narrowed

- wheel studs, as you'll never get wheel nuts in through non-hubcentric rotors

- the adaptors and some suitable hardware

- new brake lines, probably braided

- new pads (chances of the $400 calipers having the right pads are low)

- a cert

- new wheels to fit over them

- tyres for the wheels.

JiB started with $350 calipers from memory, so if he says its $2k + the cert (and wheels), he won't be far off.

Well that leaves me stuck in a sh*t hole, but also with the question what other calipers can I use to upgrade my stopping power?

[Fabo 0]

I wouldn't even bother with non-hubcentric rotors, almost certain it will shimmy. E30's are bad enough for this as it is with rotors that fit properly.

unless you go with custom rotors there are very few OEM items that work, you need the right centerbore and pcd (these can sometimes be modified to work), offset also needs to be right, too low and you wont have caliper clearance, too high and you'll hit the ball joints. Lastly you want them bigger than standard items. Unless you have connections you're easily looking at $200 per rotor here.

Depending on what cylinder size you go with you may also need to upgrade you MC and/or get a bias valve.

I'd also given any second hand calipers a freshen up with new seals.

All this plus what cam mentioned and it does get expensive very quickly.

Yes it does seem a lot more complicated than I had imagined in the first place I thought it might be just a few bits and pieces of custom work but it seems entirely alot, so shows you what I know :S lol

But hey this is what this forums for

Does sound rather pricey though.

[Fabo 0]

For the record, I used non-hubcentric rotors (+1mm), and I didn't have any shimmy.

I think if I were to do it again, I'd get custom slip-on spacers with long studs. Less compliance than a bolt on solution I think. And with a custom slipon, you could have a staggered inner bore for non-hubcentric rotor gap and the rotor lip. The outer bore would then be the exact size you need for the wheels you choose.

17" wheels would be the easiest, the wheel choice narrows very very quickly as you go for a smaller diameter wheel.

I have 17's at the moment and just getting 17x7.5 with 25p with a dish as I don't like the ones I have fitted at the moment.

Mmmm the whole idea of it seems very off putting now, but seemed good when I first had a spark.

Thanks

[JiB 0]

Well that leaves me stuck in a sh*t hole, but also with the question what other calipers can I use to upgrade my stopping power?

Read the post above:

I'd look at better pads and fluid first. Also larger brakes = more weight

[Fabo 0]

Done a lot of work to the pug brakes and the first thing i'll ask is why are you wanting bigger brakes?

Do you have heat problems?

Can you lock your wheels?

You will run into a whole bunch of other problems when you upgrade the front brakes. Increasing mechanic advantage by larger dia brakes and larger total area piston calipers while change your brake bias forward upsetting the the car under braking.

A larger area piston will increase the force working on the pad/disc.

If you increase the master cylinder to overcome the squishy pedal you will change the ratio of master piston size to rear brake total piston area decreasing the effectiveness of the rear brakes even more so.

I'd look at better pads and fluid first. Also larger brakes = more weight

I was wanting bigger brakes because I thought I might do the suspension and brakes before I start mucking round with the engine side of things ( FI)

I've been told to have a look at Mintex pads and Dot4 brake fluid, I also had an Idea of getting the Trademe items Zneolli 260mm Brakes all round?

Thanks

Sorry I don't have too much a clue on this section of my car

[DRTDVL 0]

You don't need bigger brakes with more power. F1 cars run 13inch wheels. You need better compound pads(which can be costly - $300+ a set), they typically have a higher co-efficient of friction which will slow you down quicker. Heat becomes the problem. F1 cars run trick compounds and cooling ducts to get around this.

Weight is a big big factor - disc's alone will weight a lot more. In pug land going from 266 to 283mm discs = roughly 2 kg per corner not including the extra weight of the bigger caliper or pads.

I upsized my brakes all round to improve the braking and installed an adjustable bias valve to control the braking distribution, i used factory stuff which has noticably impacted on the handling of the car. I'll be looking at two piece discs and new calipers to replace the stuff i have now.

Oh i also had the problem where heat was disipating fantastically from the brakes, but do to smaller clearances between the wheel and the caliper/disc the heat was being absorbed by the wheel, increasing the psi in the tyres more than i wanted again affecting the handling.

Before you start doing mod's to your car do a lot of reading like this whole pages links: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

Edited July 5, 2010 by DRTDVL

[DRTDVL 0]

Does sound rather pricey though.

Not really... I spent 3 grand sorting out just my rear brakes.

Read this: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=36116&hl=

Really you don't need much force to brake the drivetrain of your car, this is evident on how easy it is to lock up on slippery surfaces (think wet grass/ice/mud/clay). You will generate the greatest amount of braking just before your wheels lockup, this becomes determinate on aerodynamic downforce, tyre grip, etc... the amount of force need to lock a full race slick will be different than a cheap linglong road tyre - so the amount of braking required is dictated by the grip levels of your car not the power.

[E30-323ti 66]

Seeing you are in Chch, I would suggest seeing Les Hunter, he helped me out heaps with my E30.

He had some good medium cost / practical solutions, not all pie in the sky big dollars stuff.

I think Mike also tried (or had the parts) for the 540/Audi MBK, which is good if you don't have lots of space for fixed calipers, might pay to pick his brains.

[edit] The other option for "factory" type upgrades is going to the E36 5lug, which you can leave stock @ 275x22 or use E46 328 300x22 or E46 330 325x25, both of which "bolt on"[/edit]

All depends what you plan to do with the car.

Having "Been there, Done that" you will need bigger brakes.

Edited July 5, 2010 by E30-323ti

[CamB 48]

Yeah - on the track the brakes with max upgrading are ok for a 320i/325i but that's about it.

Heath - you'd be surprised at how light the skyline calipers are.

[DRTDVL 0]

Its not so much the caliper weight but the disc weight.

I don't know i just know a lot of people who waste a lot of money on big brakes when decent pads is all they need. By decent i'm talking brands like Endless, Pagid, Carbone Lorraine not mintex or ebc.

CamB - Forgive me for possibly being way off, wouldn't the only reason you need bigger brakes in a more powerful car be because of the heat that the extra braking time to slow down from higher speeds? If the grip levels are the same between a car with 250 and a car with 500hp how could bigger brakes that can overcome the level of grip easier (lockups become easier) be an advantage unless the extra heat generated becomes an issue? *asking to learn more*

Edited July 6, 2010 by DRTDVL