Skyline Brakes E30

[Mike 1]

^that is the issue, more powerful cars go faster. and the following equation (Ek = mv2/2) tells that a car going 120kph vs a car (same mass) going 100kph will generate 44% more heat if they both stop completely.

Caliper is still unsprung weight though. ideally you have the smallest disc you need, and a nice alloy caliper, again no bigger than it needs to be.

I think Mike also tried (or had the parts) for the 540/Audi MBK, which is good if you don't have lots of space for fixed calipers, might pay to pick his brains.

I still do come to think of it. I think they were 288x25mm rotors, (plenty big enough for most, and modified to suit e30) and 535i calipers. Still got it all along with brackets, new pads and new lines sitting in a shed somewhere if someone wants to make it work. Beauty pf this setup is that it takes up much less space behind the wheels. I think even 15's will fit.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Mike

[Apex Effects 3]

so you use 535i calipers? what else? much difference in 540 stuff? did you 5 lug?

Glen with out me going an looking(being lazy i know) would a e46 caliper(328) bolt up/with adapter bracket to a e30 hub set? i notice your running porche stuff your reasoning for using them?

sorry to thread hijack just interested in sorting a brake setup that fits under 15/16s on a dirty 30

[Fabo 0]

You don't need bigger brakes with more power. F1 cars run 13inch wheels. You need better compound pads(which can be costly - $300+ a set), they typically have a higher co-efficient of friction which will slow you down quicker. Heat becomes the problem. F1 cars run trick compounds and cooling ducts to get around this.

Weight is a big big factor - disc's alone will weight a lot more. In pug land going from 266 to 283mm discs = roughly 2 kg per corner not including the extra weight of the bigger caliper or pads.

I upsized my brakes all round to improve the braking and installed an adjustable bias valve to control the braking distribution, i used factory stuff which has noticably impacted on the handling of the car. I'll be looking at two piece discs and new calipers to replace the stuff i have now.

Oh i also had the problem where heat was disipating fantastically from the brakes, but do to smaller clearances between the wheel and the caliper/disc the heat was being absorbed by the wheel, increasing the psi in the tyres more than i wanted again affecting the handling.

Before you start doing mod's to your car do a lot of reading like this whole pages links: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

Thanks for that the ink you gave me was really informative

I think I might buy better fluid and better pads, but the rotors I stated before do look rather aggressive which would also fill out the wheels I have on

[Fabo 0]

Not really... I spent 3 grand sorting out just my rear brakes.

Read this: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=36116&hl=

Really you don't need much force to brake the drivetrain of your car, this is evident on how easy it is to lock up on slippery surfaces (think wet grass/ice/mud/clay). You will generate the greatest amount of braking just before your wheels lockup, this becomes determinate on aerodynamic downforce, tyre grip, etc... the amount of force need to lock a full race slick will be different than a cheap linglong road tyre - so the amount of braking required is dictated by the grip levels of your car not the power.

Jesus ! lol

I have crappy. but not to crappy tyres on at the moment and these links you keep sending me are great quality thanks

[Fabo 0]

Seeing you are in Chch, I would suggest seeing Les Hunter, he helped me out heaps with my E30.

He had some good medium cost / practical solutions, not all pie in the sky big dollars stuff.

I think Mike also tried (or had the parts) for the 540/Audi MBK, which is good if you don't have lots of space for fixed calipers, might pay to pick his brains.

[edit] The other option for "factory" type upgrades is going to the E36 5lug, which you can leave stock @ 275x22 or use E46 328 300x22 or E46 330 325x25, both of which "bolt on"[/edit]

All depends what you plan to do with the car.

Having "Been there, Done that" you will need bigger brakes.

I have emailed him asking for some sort of solution

I've seen them on trademe but I'm not sure how big a job it is so I didn't want to attempt it first without looking into it.

Later in the year I plan to do F.I, most probably looking for 300-400hp and maybe more if I can source some custom pistons.

Thanks

[Fabo 0]

Its not so much the caliper weight but the disc weight.

I don't know i just know a lot of people who waste a lot of money on big brakes when decent pads is all they need. By decent i'm talking brands like Endless, Pagid, Carbone Lorraine not mintex or ebc.

CamB - Forgive me for possibly being way off, wouldn't the only reason you need bigger brakes in a more powerful car be because of the heat that the extra braking time to slow down from higher speeds? If the grip levels are the same between a car with 250 and a car with 500hp how could bigger brakes that can overcome the level of grip easier (lockups become easier) be an advantage unless the extra heat generated becomes an issue? *asking to learn more*

I was told the mintex brand was quite good but endless is a reputable brand might have a look at the cost of them.

[CamB 48]

CamB - Forgive me for possibly being way off, wouldn't the only reason you need bigger brakes in a more powerful car be because of the heat that the extra braking time to slow down from higher speeds? If the grip levels are the same between a car with 250 and a car with 500hp how could bigger brakes that can overcome the level of grip easier (lockups become easier) be an advantage unless the extra heat generated becomes an issue? *asking to learn more*

As Mike said - if you're going faster, you need to slow down more and start braking earlier (assuming the same corner speed). Also, if you have enough power you end up with corners that you have to brake for (and less time for the brakes to cool) compared to a lesser powered car that can't accelerate fast enough. For example, my 2002 or an E30 series car only brakes twice (sort of) at Puke, once at the hairpin and once after the sweeper*, and the brakes get to cool down the rest of the time. A more powerful car will have to brake earlier for the hairpin, may need to brake slightly before going over the hill and may need to have a decent go at the brakes before the sweeper.

* ok, so to be fair some drivers (including me) need a confidence tap of the brakes before the sweeper and most brake for turn two, accelerate briefly through turn 2 and brake for turn 3, but you get the point.

The Skyline calipers are light enough to make up for some of the penalty of the unsprung weight added by the larger rotors.

Edited July 6, 2010 by CamB

[DRTDVL 0]

Mike / CamB: Thats what i was think, thanks for confirming that. I was always told to work on the order:

1) Fuild, 2) Pads, 3) Brake Cooling, 4) Bigger brakes

I wasn't sure how much of the problem could be overcome by better brake cooling as i'm assuming there isn't any factory.

Camb: how to the skyline calipers compare to the Rx-7's and if you know or not the lotus elise brakes

Edited July 6, 2010 by DRTDVL

[CamB 48]

Similar to RX7, I'd say. My arm is a pretty poorly calibrated scale though, so probably better to google for caliper weights.

You are totally right on the order of increasing brake performance, although somewhere in there should be "lines" simply because it does nice things for the pedal.

[Jono51 59]

just been reading the latest in this thread, I assume that the 535i caliper is bolted to the E30 strut via a bracket?

but this appears not to be hubcentric and the 5 lug holes do not line up to the centre hub, just wondering if they haven't been lined up to the hub, or is the hub conversion incomplete?

cheers

[Mike 1]

I'm pretty sure that rotor has had the centerbore machined out as it wouldnt fit over the hub otherwise, but it hasnt been re-drilled to 4x100. That caliper has a bracket to attach it to the strut. was a while ago when that photo was taken, there are more recent photos about somewhere.

[E30-323ti 66]

so you use 535i calipers? what else? much difference in 540 stuff? did you 5 lug?

540 calipers are wider than the 535 calipers (discs are 28mm Vs 22mm thick), but must fit over the 25mm Audi disc? (mike).

Glen with out me going an looking(being lazy i know) would a e46 caliper(328) bolt up/with adapter bracket to a e30 hub set?

Anything can fit with an adaptor, but it also depends on the disc diameter, eg. the 535/audi combo uses a 315mm disc.

i notice your running porche stuff your reasoning for using them?

sorry to thread hijack just interested in sorting a brake setup that fits under 15/16s on a dirty 30

When I did my BBK there were no off the shelf options.

The 996 Mono-block Brembo calipers are stiff and light, have dust boots and are made for use with a 'boosted' system. Calipers like Wilwoods (the other option at the time) mention they are not to exceed 1200psi (IIRC) line pressure and are meant to be used non-boosted/assisted.

The porsche calipers are also radial mounted, so rotor diameter changes are easily adapted and the Wilwoods (SL6R) I looked at were almost 2x the price of the lug mount variant (this was 5+ yrs ago remember).

I got the calipers from the UK and were 'like new'.

I run them with Pagid RS4-4 (Orange) and it's pretty eye-popping with big sticky tyres on the track.

I can just squeeze 16's over the front, and surprisingly 15's over the rears.

But you need plenty of spoke-caliper clearance...