E30 race car- part 1

[E30-323ti 66]

Thanks for clearing that up conrod.

I'm glad I was right, 'cause I'd be pretty pissed at spending all year putting the E28 backend into the E30 if a 325 one could have done the job

Make sure you don't eat it all, I'm sure most us over the years will have a few mouth fulls.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Here is a bit of a teaser of what I've been upto.

Should be test driving this weekend, fingers crossed.

[conrod 1]

Porsche Brembos, and by the looks of where the coilover is mounted, I'd say trailing arms off a 5 series- very nice! Did you use the E30 rear beam, or modify the 5er to fit?

[E30-323ti 66]

Porsche Brembos, and by the looks of where the coilover is mounted, I'd say trailing arms off a 5 series- very nice! Did you use the E30 rear beam, or modify the 5er to fit?

Thanks

Yip, monobloc's off a 996, to match the fronts.

The whole E28 rear end, the subframe is about twice the size of the weedy E30 one, so thats got to be good.

Didn't take much modifying either.

I'll throw some pics together on a web page once it's going.

[Guest Spargo]

M3 front brakes for sale perchance?

Did you buy the MZ3 rear end off James Letner, Conrad?

[conrod 1]

small world isn't it!!!!!!! Yes, that is where (most of ) the MZ3 rear end came from.I have two sets of M3 front brakes (and two sets of rears for that matter) Undecided whether I am using them on the project, depends on budget really. I would really like to fit AP four pots all round. I will make a decision in the next few months on this, and let you know if I decide to sell them.

[Guest Spargo]

James drinks at my bar all the time (one of the few with a tab on the computer tills there!) Still trying to get him to sell me his Evo motor and box.

If you could let me know, that would be cool, as I want to Run E36 M3 front brakes with rotor spacers, and MZ3 rears using the trailing arms and half shafts.

[conrod 1]

Haven't fogotten about the brakes, and at the moment thinking is I won't be using them, Maybe use stock rotors, and fit AP calipers, or fit AP rotors as well. Meanwhile, I have finally found and bought the car I will use as a base. Kinda pleased with this, bought it from Turners damaged Auctions in Hamilton, over the phone. Had only seen pictures of it, so wasn't sure of its condition.I got it very cheap, and when it turned up at my place on a flatdeck, i was amazed at the condition. Only damage is front valance/ radiator support panel pushed back, and broken sump. Rails are perfect. It is a 1988 318i Auto,white, no sunroof, only 140K's, interior perfect, paint really good, four new tyres fitted plus unused spare/jack/tools! If anyone is after an M40/auto I will be plucking it out shortly, it will be cheap, just needs a sump. Here is a couple of pics:

[conrod 1]

And another:

[Guest Andrew]

looking forward to see you get started on this - valance will be easy as to fix.

p.s thanks for the help at the track on fri - shifter linkage had cracked in half and was just holding together - all sorted now.

[Guest Spargo]

Nice and tidy! What sort of aerodynamic aids are you planning?

[conrod 1]

Nice and tidy! What sort of aerodynamic aids are you planning?

Hmmmm, damn good question, been pondering that one myself. Front spolier would have to be quite deep, I was thinking maybe an Alpina one (if I can find one or a good copy) or maybe an M3 front bumper/spoiler, to which I will add a splitter. As for the boot spoiler I really don't know. It currently has a tiny BMW boot spoiler fitted, which would do sod all. The M-Tech looks good, but is heavy, and is not a proper wing in cross section, so would just create drag and add weight.But it would have to be in keeping with the look of the car- nothing ricey. Any suggestions? :confused:

[petone 0]

flat underbody, with a plank of wood for clearance

[Guest Spargo]

M-tec 2 rear actually creates downforce (run a waterblaster over it to simulate a windtunnel), the E30 guys in UK have seen quite a bit of lift on track when they trialed running 325i Sports (M-tec 2 kitted) on track without the rear wing. Its in effect a biplane structure, with a bottom and top piece. I plan on retaining the lower section, and running an M3 rear wing above that, with an adjustible gurney flap.

This is close to what BMW Motorsport did with the E30 M3 Evo II, as they had a lower non adj piece ("the ruler") below the normal M3 wing. Although this was binned for th Sport Evo, which had an 3 setting adj top gurney flap on the normal M3 rear wing (no ruler).

Your also hamstrung by the steep angle of the normal E30 shell, with regards to aerodynamic separation, which was somewhat rectified with the E30 M3 shell, having a less steep rear windscreen, and longer roof, leading to a raised boot lid (see VL Walkinshaw for comparison).

You could run an M3 front bar with a splitter, which is so much better with regards to getting the air where you want it to go compared to any other E30 item (alpina included) its not funny. If thats not an option, run a lower spoiler (reiger or E30 iS item) and an ABS plastic splitter, the US guys saying that the splitter alone pulled the wheels a good couple of inches into the guards at high speed (I'm assuming this is the stagnation point providing some "downforce" onto the splitter)

If you were to get really clever (I understand you're an ExF1 engineer, this should be childs' play) you could create a frontbar that curved back under the middle of the car instead of out into the stagnation reigon, in affect creating a high velocity low pressure reigon (bernoulli's theory) which, attached to the Sport Evo specific flat under body panels, could create a sort of underbody ground affect tunnel.

You'll need to run some pretty badass skirts to keep all the airflow under the car, and maybe a rear body diffuser (E36 M3 style).

I'm musing out loud here, and the regs your building the car to might not allow these sorts of things, but its a start.

[conrod 1]

Great stuff, thanks for that and I'll take all of that on board! No, not an ex F1 engineer, but I have worked in motorsport for about 15 years now, circuit and rally cars mainly, here and overseas, and always learning! I am not building my car to any set of rules, so it will be whatever I want it to be. I would like to use it in tarmac rallies, possibly Targa, the endurance series (circuit) and circuit racing (plenty of classes that I can run a "hotrod" in) It will have to be road legal to compete in tarmac rallies, and any external mods must be in keeping with the overall look and period of the car (my rule!) Emphasis will be on light weight, good suspension and big brakes. I will run the engine basically standard to start with,(321hp should be a good start!) and once the rest of the car is sorted will look at developing it further. Should have my wheels in a few weeks, some nice 18"magnesium OZ supertourer wheels, I'll post pics when I get them, they look pretty cool! cheers conrod :thumb:

[Guest Andrew]

M-tec 2 rear actually creates downforce (run a waterblaster over it to simulate a windtunnel)

nothing like the waterblaster windtunnel - yeah it does look to create a lot of downforce. Looks like a pretty smooth flow through there though so probably shitloads of drag also.

[conrod 1]

Just got my wheels today, nothing like a few spares!..........

[conrod 1]

E30 Supertourer look?

[conrod 1]

and another......

[Guest Spargo]

Yea, those are rediculously hot! Centrelock conversion? Thats another 5KUS to the project then?

[Gus 5]

Centrelock

badass...love the look

maybe an iS lip with splitter for the front? and fibreglass replica mtech2 wing? or mtech 1 wing (would look badass, not great for downforce though i imagine)

[conrod 1]

Not sure whether I will go centrelock or not. Probably drill 5 holes in each wheel and bolt them on. Definitely not as cool looking, but a lot less hassle to change wheels, and much cheaper to do. Believe it or not I am trying to be sensible on what I spend on building this, and these wheels were a bargain! Not sure about spoilers yet, might try to find an M3 front bumper and take a mould off the whole bumper/spoiler so I can make a lightweight one out of carbon, and rear I dunno yet.

[smokenbaby 0]

From Turner Motorsport

http://www.turnermotorsport.com

Evolution II Front Spoiler (E30 M3)

Part #: 51712238178

Applications: 1988 - 1991 M3 (E30)

As the competition heated up in touring car racing in the late 80's, BMW Motorsport created different evolutions of the E30 M3 to stay competitive. This Evolution II front spoiler lip is an example of the aerodynamic evolution of this car. This lip bolts on to the bottom of your existing front spoiler. Factory BMW Motorsport part. Comes primed and includes mounting hardware.

Price: $369.95

Sale Price: $299.00

Savings: $70.95

Keep the wheels center lock.

You can still buy from BMW new M3 front guards and rear quarter panels. Do the conversion.

I plan on doing it for my future project.

[conrod 1]

To be honest this is one of the things I have struggled with most about this build- M3 or not? I initially started looking for an M3 to use as a donor car, and then decided to go the normal E30 route for the following reasons. Firstly,think E30 M3 race car and immediately the Group A car comes to mind, with anything else tends to be a diluted version of one. I discounted buying a Group A on the basis of being too expensive to run, and requiring many people to do so- I wanted something I could take to the track on my own and run, and not have to rebuild it every few meetings or so,also it had to be reasonably fast as well as reliable. I wasn't super comfortable with putting a six cylinder into an M3, its been done a few times I know, but to me it just isn't "right" As far as bodykitting an E30 to look like an M3, well it may work out slightly cheaper than starting off with an M3 but I am back to the same issues about building a "lookalike" I wanted something unique, that would give a Group A car a run for its money without necessarily trying to imitate one- at 320 hp and 260lbs.ft it should be off to a good start. So maybe an M3 front spoiler, because they work well, but I won't be bodykitting it!

[E30-323ti 66]

Good call conrod.

Besides there aren't any real advantages to the M3 body (unless you get down to the aerodynamic's about the rear window/boot lid), unless it were "M3 look" guards that are actually wider as per the 1000hp Kilander Turbo S38 325/M3 monster.

The stock E30 guards can accomodate tyres that are more than big enough for it's weight/power potenial.

FWIW, I have 245/40's on the front & rear, there is still ~15mm to the guards (rolled lips) which is plently for a 240/625 slick (V8 tourer tyres).

The front you are limited by the chassis rails in terms of steering lock and the foot well if you go for a tyre taller than 630mm (which requires a bit of persuasion (sp?) with a hammer anyway).

Wheel width & offset are a factor also.

Edited March 21, 2006 by E30-323ti

[Guest Spargo]

http://www.m3-e30.de/teilemarkt.htm

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...me=STRK:MEWA:IT

Edited March 22, 2006 by Spargo