Aftermarket Chips?

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

Well I was getting the bug again (to start playing with things) I remember when I purchased the car the guy I got it off mentioned it had been chipped. I did think the car went well. But didnt really take any notice of what he said, thought he was just spinning some crap. Any way I removed the ecu today, popped it aprt and hey presto look what I found. The chip is made by "Torque chips" hmmm, that does explain why the car has a good healthy kick after 4000rpm. But me wonders what this would be like coupled up to a decent exhaust and maybe pushing a littel more fuel into her.

[Grant 4]

I have read in a number of places, that performance chips are only really effective when the intake and headres/exhaust are modifies as well to provide better flow of air into the engine, and freer flowing exhaust.

However, you still should see some improvements with the chip alone.

Are Torque Performance Australian?

Cheers

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

Yes I agree, Im wondering what to do with the exhaust etc, any ideas would be much appreciated. I did look into a supersprint muffler BUT GODDAMN they are expensive to get down here. Im thinking of sticking with twin pipes all the way threw, remving the cat. Originally putting on a supersprint at the rear. But any thoughts?

The intake has a pod filter etc, (No cold air box) I was actually thinking of taking that off finding the original setup and just putting a decent element back in. Or making a good cold air box.

I believe torque chips are Aussie Im trying to source what exactly it is at the moment. Be interesting to see what this has on the dyno? I reckon its got a good 300 kw (LMAO) give or take a couple.

(Plz note the sarcasm)

[gmccormack 0]

CHIPPING=waste of time

[Grant 4]

Graeme,

Why is it a waste of time to add a performance chip?

I have read varying reports on whether it is worth it or not.

Cheers

[Gus 5]

graeme im not sure as to the definition of chipping....i know replacing the ECU with a Link or Motec Unit means you can get rid of the AFM.....removing a significant restriction on the intake system....one of the things i hope to be doing someday.....makes a car more effecient as well....better for the environment

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

CHIPPING=waste of time

Another one of those real handy posts. LOLOLOLOL

Grant, there are numerous different ways of going about this. I.E say I decided to use a Unichip. These chips are basically written and setup dynoed to your car. So know 2 chips are the same. So the guy with the free flowing exhaust and intake etc, will find his setting on his chip take advantage of this, he will gain more. When they dyno his car they find they can get that little bit more out of it. The 2nd customer is running completely stock, he finds he gains very little from it as when they dyno it they gain very little etc. So in these circumstances you will gain more if you have done more etc. Each time you make a change to the engine or intake/exhaust etc, you can take your car back and have it redynoed and the chip tuned to take advantage of these mods.

The other chips, are like the J/C, Dinan chips you see on the US sites etc. These are chips thats these companies etc have developed. They are a carbon copy of each other and not customised to your particular car etc. They have done all the testing on maybe one or two cars and (maybe more) decided right these settings work well. So you go and order one of these chips and in general they do perform better than the standard, but are not customised to your engine, car, enviroment, climate.

Then there are Link systems etc these are trully excellent, BUT cost more money still. These give you the ability of alot more control and flexabilty etc.

My recomendation would be to get a off the shelf chip from the UK, I believe someone at E30zone is burning them off. All going well you would pay alot less than buying a dinan or J/C chip. E-bay have knock offs as well.

Personally I find Link expensive and Unichip etc is also to expensive for my liking.

Im awaiting to hear back from torque chips to see what I actually have.

Personally I feel a chip will make a decent diference especially with other mods done.

Edited February 1, 2004 by tHrEEtWoFiVe

[Guest Andrew]

Another one of those real handy posts. LOLOLOLOL

Grant, there are numerous different ways of going about this. I.E say I decided to use a Unichip. These chips are basically written and setup dynoed to your car. So know 2 chips are the same. So the guy with the free flowing exhaust and intake etc, will find his setting on his chip take advantage of this, he will gain more. When they dyno his car they find they can get that little bit more out of it. The 2nd customer is running completely stock, he finds he gains very little from it as when they dyno it they gain very little etc. So in these circumstances you will gain more if you have done more etc. Each time you make a change to the engine or intake/exhaust etc, you can take your car back and have it redynoed and the chip tuned to take advantage of these mods.

The other chips, are like the J/C, Dinan chips you see on the US sites etc. These are chips thats these companies etc have developed. They are a carbon copy of each other and not customised to your particular car etc. They have done all the testing on maybe one or two cars and (maybe more) decided right these settings work well. So you go and order one of these chips and in general they do perform better than the standard, but are not customised to your engine, car, enviroment, climate.

Then there are Link systems etc these are trully excellent, BUT cost more money still. These give you the ability of alot more control and flexabilty etc.

My recomendation would be to get a off the shelf chip from the UK, I believe someone at E30zone is burning them off. All going well you would pay alot less than buying a dinan or J/C chip. E-bay have knock offs as well.

Personally I find Link expensive and Unichip etc is also to expensive for my liking.

Im awaiting to hear back from torque chips to see what I actually have.

Personally I feel a chip will make a decent diference especially with other mods done.

Link is hardly expensive.. $1000 for an ECU that will do all the things a $3000 ECU does.

E30 owners bear in mind you can only chip Motronic cars. There are no L-jet performance chips.

Gus: chipping usually means replacing the ecu with the same ecu that has aftermarket software on it. Chaning the whole ecu with another one is just called changing the whole engine management.

[Gus 5]

yeah thought that may be the case.....i spose there wouldnt be HEAPS of diff....threetwotfive...my 325 has a healthy kick after 3-4000 too....its good isnt it? i love 2nd and 3rd

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

Hmm Link must of come down in price, its been a while since I priced it. Chipping is NOT replacing the ECU. It is purely replacing or reprogramming the chip in the ECU.

Gus, Im guessing the gains are small, so I imagine the difference between yours and mine would be small.

If liink is trully around $1000, then that would be by far the best option.

Just had alooksee at the link site, Im interested hehehehehe.

But for anyone else looking and thinking a 1000 dollers and away. Bear in mind this is straight of the front page.

1. The purchase price of the management system.

2. The installation charge.

3. The setup and tuning time, including dyno / gas analysers etc.

Im not putting anyone off, back when I was a young lad (lololol it wasnt that long ago.) Link and othere similar systems were expensive and not simple to tune etc.

So the initial cost would be high with all the dyno work etc. In saying that Im now looking to see what I can get for what price lolol. I still say best bang for buck is getting a aftermarket chip from someone like Dinan etc or even better a knock off etc.

Edited February 2, 2004 by tHrEEtWoFiVe

[gmccormack 0]

Rechipping is the electronic equivolent of changing jets in a carb, you wouldnt expect huge power gains from rejetting unless there was a problem with the stock jets would you?? Alternatively replacing the ECU or Rechipping may be needed where the engine has been modified but the power gains come from the modifications ,the rechipping simply gets you back to the correct fuel mixture. eg Improving the intake or exhaust may cause a slightly lean mixture which rechipping may correct, but without dyno tuning you would never know if your mixture was lean, rich or correct.

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

I beg to differ. You will make gains from rechipping. The manufacturer cannot always establish the quality of fuel you are running or the climate etc, so as a blanket effect they will always detune (bad choice of word ) a car very slightly. A good chip will tune your car to a better state of running to the circumstances in which you are situated. This ussually ends up with a small gain in hp and torque. This will happin on a completed stock standard engine. Some manufacturers would tune there cars to a higher standard than others. I personally believe BMW generally have there vehicles pretty much on the money, hence only small gains can be made.

But you are correct in ther fact that a chip will enable you to take better advantage of modifications that have been done, especially one that is dynoed to suite.

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

I am now excited about link hehehehehehe. Ive just want to see how much I can buy just the unit for.

[Grant 4]

Andrew/ tHrEEtWoFiVe/ anyone?

Can you explain how/what is involved with changing the current ECU for a Link one?

It seems from all accounts that you get a lot of bang for your buck in doing this. Also, how much in involved in the installation/ tuning? What could you expect to pay for this?

Cheers

Edited February 3, 2004 by Grant

[Grant 4]

Also, I assume that a Link ECU is reprogrammable, should you modify your engine, is this something that you can modify yourself, or do you need to take it somewhere with Dyno access?

Cheers

[Gus 5]

grant...andrew will be more useful but the link is around a grand i think....with installation and tuning for your particular car costing around another grand....you can tune it yourself with a laptop but apparently its easy to mess it up and without a dyno you cant measure the gains you make....its going to be the first proper mod i do after ive paid off my car i think...i like the idea of it

[Guest Andrew]

The physical install of the unit is fairly cheap. However you can't tune it /get it running yourself (unless you know what your doing of course). Yes it can be tuned by PC (add on unit for 80 ish dollars) but you can't do anything again unless you know what your doing, you can munt up your motor by playing with things.

The prices i've got.

$2000 ish all up from Speedtech in Welly (Glenn got me that price)

$1500 from MC motorsport but not physically putting the unit in.

Possum borne motor sport was similar price.

[gmccormack 0]

Take your cars to the drags stock then take them back chipped then take the chip back for a refund . The clock doesnt lie - chip makers do.

[Guest Andrew]

Take your cars to the drags stock then take them back chipped then take the chip back for a refund . The clock doesnt lie - chip makers do.

Thats a bit unfair.. take it to the dyno. You may suck each time at drags. But i'm not much of a promotor for the JC or Dinan software offerings either, I just don't see the need.

You can't go wrong with a Link, removing the AFM is GOING to give you HP any way you look at it. I don't think its worth doing though unless your going to be doing a motor swap or turbo etc..

ThreeTwoFive: I was aware the ECU wasn't replaced, I'm just saying they merely replace your chip, with the same chip that has different software.

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

Gmccormack, Im sorry my car was never built with the intention of the strip. I dont believe any of the chips that were developed were developed with that in mind. I tend to agree with Andrew, there are two many varibles to really see what the difference is.

I also agree with regards to the Dinan and J/C chips, however if you can acquire a knock off of ones of these at a much less price then hey presto, give it a whirl. There are other options available, that are cheaper. If you know where to look.

Grant, Andrew is correct, the basic Link unit is $1190, + GST. (that is just the off the shelf price without shopping around etc) If you required them to install you would be looking at approx $1800 all up. The Link Plus is $1780 + GST, again install its is approx $2500 all up. For the M20 engine in mild form the basic link is more than sufficient. If you had a more race orientated engine the link plus would give you greater control. I believe that would require a hellish cam setup etc, as the specs of the basic Link seem pretty good. Its adjustability is nice.

I dont see it as been to diffcult to install, though I wouldnt recommend it for the novice. Tuning would require some knowledge of what you are doing. A dyno would be handy though not required. I am researching the pros and cons of this unit. One thing I should mention is the ability to remove the unit from your car and fit to your next vehicle. So though the cost on a poor old E30 would seem extreme you can always take it out and put on your next Bimmer as well.

I mean nothing by this but you notice how the price has really strarted moving up on the link, and you havent even purchased it yet. Its like all these things you start with a base price and just keep climbing.

Oh yes, fitting the link indeed leads to the ability to remove the AFM, which is a bonus, though I am suspect of how much of one?

I would recommend if your were to turbo one of these that a link system would be something on the top of the list.

Grant the basics of link or any similar system is this.

The map is pretty much a blank canvas, (the basic fuel and ignition map) The system picks up inputs that you have set as to which the firing order of the engine, match to the firing of the fuel system etc. From there you create (adjust your fuel ratio/timing etc, and the ignition timing etc. (Thats the basic version) If on a dyno you would have the ability to monitor using the dyno equipment the mixture etc. Using the different sensors that the Link plugs into you are able to compenstate for air flow , temperature etc.

If you did this on the open road you would go by the seat of your pants a little plus using a oxy sensor for mixture (lean/rich) setting. Though I believe a wideband oxy sensor would be more the go. I do believe there is a self learning system in Link, but I am unsure of exactly what it is capable of.

There is a lot more to it than just that, but that the very basics.

Edited February 3, 2004 by tHrEEtWoFiVe

[bimmer boy 21]

yes i want to get a dinan chip anyone know how good they are

any persoanl experiece with them?

Edited February 4, 2004 by bimmer boy

[Grant 4]

Andrew/ tHrEEtWoFiVe

Thanks for your excellent answers. These are the type of answers and explanations that help everyone learn, and I think that they are really great. This is a subject I knew very little about, and feel much more knowledgable now (but still realise I know only the tip of one very big iceberg).

tHrEEtWoFiVe, Any info/findings you get from your research into the pros and cons of the potential system, please post them here, I am very interested.

Cheers again

[Guest Andrew]

Oh yes, fitting the link indeed leads to the ability to remove the AFM, which is a bonus, though I am suspect of how much of one?

I would recommend if your were to turbo one of these that a link system would be something on the top of the list.

Grant the basics of link or any similar system is this.

The map is pretty much a blank canvas, (the basic fuel and ignition map) The system picks up inputs that you have set as to which the firing order of the engine, match to the firing of the fuel system etc. From there you create (adjust your fuel ratio/timing etc, and the ignition timing etc. (Thats the basic version) If on a dyno you would have the ability to monitor using the dyno equipment the mixture etc. Using the different sensors that the Link plugs into you are able to compenstate for air flow , temperature etc.

If you did this on the open road you would go by the seat of your pants a little plus using a oxy sensor for mixture (lean/rich) setting. Though I believe a wideband oxy sensor would be more the go. I do believe there is a self learning system in Link, but I am unsure of exactly what it is capable of.

There is a lot more to it than just that, but that the very basics.

I think your looking 20 ish hp for removing the AFM.

A lot of people down the link because it only has 500rpm tunable intervals. An ECU is only as good as its tuner and a good tuner can make the Link very smooth.

I think the Link can self adjust some what using closed loop lambda control, but don't quote me on that.

Grant: If you want to have a look how the tuning is done, head to the Link site and download PC Link.

[gmccormack 0]

Thats a bit unfair.. take it to the dyno. You may suck each time at drags. But i'm not much of a promotor for the JC or Dinan software offerings either, I just don't see the need.

You can't go wrong with a Link, removing the AFM is GOING to give you HP any way you look at it. I don't think its worth doing though unless your going to be doing a motor swap or turbo etc..

ThreeTwoFive: I was aware the ECU wasn't replaced, I'm just saying they merely replace your chip, with the same chip that has different software.

Link have a product that gets rid of the AFM & uses your factory ECU - much cheaper than an aftermarket ECU but gives almost the same affect

[tHrEEtWoFiVe 0]

Andrew I think your right on the self adjusting being closed loop lambda control. But Im not sure its to succesful. The 500 rpm thing I agree with you, in the hands of someone capable this is not a big thing.

Bimmerboy if you are wanting a chip let me know and Ill put in touch with a far cheaper option than Dinan.