e30 suspension setup- feels worse?

[Tomo 0]

Ive had this problem for a while but have pretty much been ignoring it- i have had H&R shocks *springs in my 318i for maybe 10 months now, once they went in the handling was sweet as, great feel and turn in, really planted at the front. Awhile back i got Bilstein shocks fitted and at the same time they did a wheel alignment on it. I vaguely remember glancing the sheet and seeing they removed a bit of camber and toe out. Ever since it has felt a bit looser at the front, more likely to understeer (which is not exactly confidence inspiring) and a bit lighter steering (i don't have power steering but like the challenge ).

So to cut to the chase basically what i am asking is firstly am i right in thinking this is entirely the fault of the wheel alignment being done, and secondly can i have another alignment done to restore it to my preferred setup? Im not totally clued up in this department so any input on safety aspects, other contributing factors would be greatly appreciated. If the alignment setup is purely for tyre saving like getting an extra 1000k's from the rubber then id rather have the added fun.

Cheers

Tom

Edited September 3, 2008 by Tomo

[bravo 35]

Hey Tom,

I assume you mean H&R springs, not shoicks.

Wheel alignment can certainly affect the handling.

Camber is not adjustable on e30's without aftermarket strut-tops or bushes, so the change in camber is probably small, as unless they changed the aprings too, I wouldn't expect it to change.

The toe is the culprit. What have they set it at?? They were probably n00bs and tried to pull it back to factory spec even with the lowered height. I'm no expert on what it should be, but from memory your after a wee bit of toe-in to help with the turn in and understeer. Someone else will know - where's 3pedals when you need him?

[kiwi535 538]

i know a bit of toe in makes the car feel great to turn in but it does make slightly less positive in the straight ahead..The "sports suspension settings" on teh e 34 has more toe in than stock..also means the outside edges of the front tyres will wear out

[Tomo 0]

thanks for the quick replies guys.. yeah i meant springs not shocks, long day...

I seem to remember ollie reviewing albany tyreworx and saying they knew their stuff, may have to go down there and discuss it.. i will definitely post up the results of adjustment.

I know its a bit of a guessing game considering i dont have the figures but any input in regards to what it should be at would be appreciated. The H&R's are 35mm lowering springs btw.

Cheers

Tom

[Tomo 0]

Just had an either brilliant or stupid idea (its most likely bordering either extreme) im going to go play some gran turismo 4 in order to try and understand the effects of adjustment (because if you go for aftermarket suspension in the game you can adjust all that, right?) and the simulation seems accurate enough?? Real life experience still welcome!!!

[Tomo 0]

This lets you adjust the toe angle of the front and rear tyres. If the front tyres are set to a slight toe out, the steering response will be slightly reduced but the tendancy to lose grip after changing the steering direction is also reduced. Toe in at the rear wheels increases the straight line stability of the car. If the rear wheels are set to toe out it will be easier to change direction, however in almost all cases it introduces oversteer that makes the car harder to drive. You could say the rear toe angle has much greater effect on the characteristics of the car than the front.

[Tomo 0]

If the front tyres are set to a slight toe out, the steering response will be slightly reduced but the tendancy to lose grip after changing the steering direction is also reduced.

Is this what i should be going for?

[antony 0]

Do you still have the sheet from the wheel alignment? Will be easier/cheaper to get advice from the other alignment guys with it.

Maybe your just going around the corners to fast hehe.

[Tomo 0]

no, i didnt actually get it done myself so dont have the sheet- and i dont think my garage keeps that kinda thing on file they're usually lucky to the invoice with the month!

I kinda need to carry speed thru corners, its only a 318i! it may take forever to get back on boil!

Edited September 3, 2008 by Tomo

[JiB 2]

Ernst at Bavarian recommended 1 degree total toe in in front. (0.5 each side).

Provides better turn in...mind you this is with the E30 series suspension.

[williams 0]

rear wheel drive cars normaly have toe-in as the car gets pushed from the rear they tend to open up-front wheel drives are toe-out as the front wheels pull in when u accelerate,the main reason when a car is lowered the camber becomes more is due to SAI and KPI ''has to remain the same''-not good for tyre life but good for cornering, example-e36 with 17inch wheels and lowered suspension=excessive tyre wear on inside,all bmw's have a ''standard ride height'' for the spec given by bmw

[tibbs.james 1]

I'm About to be in he same boat here, my car had its wheel alignment before i fitted lowering springs and after the lowing springs it still felt fantastic.

However i will need an alignment after i do my tie rods and fit a new steering rack.

what would be a recommended wheel alignment With 1" lowering springs, I'm sure this must be a popular setup and somebody must have their settings handy ?