Is there any chance of having

[martyyn 2]

a discussion in here without the thread being locked ?

Have I got it right that this section if called 'off topic' where 'anything goes' ?

Can someone please explain to me why two threads which have very slighty scratched the surface regarding a membership have been locked with no explaination ?

I can totally understand if the topic has been thrashed to death, but Ive been around a year now and Ive not seen anything about it other than Andrew's sticky telling everyone they can make a voluntary deposit.

To the Admin, I respect your decisions on how you want to run this, but how are we supposed to drum up support if we cant talk about these issues ?

Whats so bad about suggesting to members that they put their hands in their pockets to help out a little ?

Cheers

Martyn

[Grant 4]

Martyn

I'll think you'll find that they are locked because we can see them turning into stupid pointless debates, where the discussion is far from constructive (We, the moderators, have seen this happen time and time again, and it really degrades the whole forum).

These would be left open if the responses were going to be constuctive, but unfortunately there is an element of this forum who don't have the grey matter or ability to post opinions constructively or have reasoned and educated debates.

The 'Anything Goes' is within reason, sure, in an ideal world it would really be 'Anything Goes' but unfotunately we have only limited control about what gets posted on here so we do have to stamp down on potential 'troublesome' threads before mountains are made out of molehills.

For this issue, I suggest that periodically Andrew post a reminder that financial support of the running of this site would be appreciated (as it is a donation), hopefully that might spur a few people into action and cough up with some money.

Andrew et al, your thoughts?

Cheers

[bravo 35]

Third to last post in this thread

[Grant 4]

Third to last post in this thread

Bravo, you have some excellent points in your previous thread, and most of them we have looked into previously, here is my reaponse (bear in mind that this is not necessarily the view of the other mods, and I hope that they contribute as well, and I'm sure that they will).

What you have proposed means a lot of extra work for the admins etc, we have looked into this in the past. The admins are all busy people and can only give amall amounts of time to the administration of this site. The addition of sponsors etc is just another addition that would involve more time and more formal management(we have looked into this in the past, and may again in the future).

Also, we know that when push comes to shove and we try and enforce the payment of membership fees, the actual active members would reduce a lot. While everyone will say "Yeah I'm happy to pay" at the end of the day it will be like getting blood from a stone.

As a national committee member of the BMWCC (as is Andrew) we have discussed a partnership between (and even amalgamating) this foum and the car club website, however this will not proceed, as this is pretty unregulated and the BMWCC has to be very careful with what it is linked too because ofthe required support of BMW NZ and the International Council.

At present Bimmersprt has an excellent relationship with the BMWCC and it is the best interests of both to still operate independently (with people like Andrew and I that cross over into both). This is not only in the Auckland region, but also in the Wellington Region where the likes of Tim (Bumpstop325) and Carl a really actively involved in both, and infact I see they are holding joint events (like the upcoming Bimmersport v BMW CC v Porsche CC Show N Shine).

Cheers

[martyyn 2]

Andrew et al, your thoughts?

Cheers

Grant (and all the mods of the site for that matter),

Please dont take my posts as any sort of criticism. I have nothing but respect for what you guys do. I would just like to have an open discussion on something I feel quite strongly about.

What I was trying to achieve in my posts was to get people to think about what they get out of this forum and hopefully make them aware that it does take alot of time and money to run.

With that in mind, making a voluntary payment (being whatever people can afford - I remember living on 25 dollars a week as a student) for me would be a simple jesture to show my appreciation.

I respect that there are people who would be willing to turn the discussion into a meaningless ramble, but a blanket ban on such subjects may also deter people from speaking up with valid viewpoints and suggestions.

Like I said you guys make the decisions and Im happy to abide by them. Ive paid my money and would like to think others will do the same.

PS. I wholeheartedly agree on not making the site a 'pay-only' site. The guys I were with in the UK have just done that and its torn the members to pieces.

Several of the 'major' players have refused to pay and the site as a whole has suffered greatly to the point where questions are being asked as to whether it will continue.

Cheers

Martyn

Edited February 14, 2005 by martyyn

[Grant 4]

Please dont take my posts as any sort of criticism.

Martyn

I certainly don't see your post as criticism at all, and I think that you have made some really good and valid points.

Cheers

[bravo 35]

Grant, my post was more for martyn to know that it HAS been brought up before and recently, but thankyou for your reply as it gave me some answers to some of the questions I had.

I never really thought about the probs re: merging with BMWCC, I have a feeling the loose rules of conduct, and freedom to openly criticise BMW, and swear, and be moderately discriminatory would all have to disappear to allow a merger to happen, and that is just the surface. My only hope is that if bimmersport ever got to the stage where it was find funding or close, the members would be informed well in advance in order to give them a chance to save the site.

While writing this I have thought of another idea, perhaps (if the software allows) members could be limited in their ability to have a signature or avatar until they have paid. This does not stop the site from functioning (esp. as I view it with them all turned off so it loads faster), but means that those who have paid can "advertise" the fact as they are the only ones with sigs or avatars, and as altruistic as people say they are, a little bit of credit is always desired.

Just an idea.

Otherwise, thanks to all the mods, and is the voluntary sub supposed to be yearly? If it is, I'll have to remember to pay again in a few months.

[shadowninja 0]

I share some of Martyns sentiments here about threads being locked prematurely.

Even if a post deviates from its initial purpose, people obviously still care enough about the topic to keep coming back, checking on other peoples thoughts & post their opinions. Even if things outside of BMWs (and Hondas) are discussed...

Thats what we're here for afterall!

[edited to remove comment regarding BMW sponsorship after reading Andrew's post regarding this on a different thread]

Edited February 14, 2005 by shadowninja

[Guest Andrew]

In regard to the payment issue, at this stage I can handle it on my own and don't mind doing so. Voluntary donations are wonderful though - it does show you're support. I know 25 ish dollars isn't a lot of money. If the site ever did come to a point where I couldn't support it/didn't have funds to manage it - I would offer it to someone else to manage, and with the strong support base it has now the site no longer depends on me entirely. I basically work 3 jobs, I have my day job until uni starts. Web design and I also do contract work also. This doesn't leave me massive amounts of time to spend on bimmersport and all the features you guys would like. I have a list of things I would like done but can't do.

I don't particularly want to introduce differences the forum rights which paying and non-paying members have.

1.) The front page is sh*t and was a 2 hour job which Dave and I did a year and a half a go when the site started. A fresh look on the front page would be great.

2.) A members gallery.

3.) More active events - i.e monthly meetings like BMWCC.

4.) More of you to be BMWCC members as it helps the BMW community more.

If anyone could help with these things - get in touch. .

I never really thought about the probs re: merging with BMWCC, I have a feeling the loose rules of conduct, and freedom to openly criticise BMW, and swear, and be moderately discriminatory would all have to disappear to allow a merger to happen, and that is just the surface. My only hope is that if bimmersport ever got to the stage where it was find funding or close, the members would be informed well in advance in order to give them a chance to save the site.

This is essentially the reason why there can't be any merging of the two clubs and why the bmwclub.org.nz website (which I am doing also) cannot have a forum. BMW NZ are tied in with the official BMW Club. However there are a number of BMW Club members which are now bimmersport members (Grant for example was orginally BMW Club before we told him about bimmersport ages ago) and vice versa. Which is good for both groups. In reality there is no segregation between the clubs.

In regard to the mangement of bimmersport. The current mods are good, but I am looking at adding two more. On the top of my list right now is Carl. It really needs to be someone who can realistically read every thread (which at the end of each day I can't be bothered doing all the time, nor replying to emails and PMs). I would rather admins delete topics rather than lock them and then PM the person/s in error. I am also considering taking away admin rights to edit people posts - as it can get annoying.

Didn't read any of this twice so if something doesn't make sense, mah bad.

[bimmer boy 21]

post whore right here read evey post lol

nah if i really really wanted to b a mod i would hav bribed u a long time ago lol

yea i can understand how mods lock threads even if some are prematurely

because of people going completly off topic and if it wernt 'policed' all topics would end up like this and that wouldnt be cool if your some one who has a genuine intrest in the actual topic

[cage 0]

Hey Andrew

If you need help in the web desgin stuff iam more then happy to help just let me know what i can do

[bravo 35]

I also have some web skillz (done a few basic pages myself, but all in html and using css style sheets - no flash coding skillz). I would be willing to be involved in the updating of the main page on a regular basis as I know what a chore that can be, so as the mods have more time to mod. So, if you want a donkey to do that kind of thing from time to time, I'm down wit dat.