Racing Fuel

[*bM** 0]

Last friday night i took my car down to mere mere to drag race it, just interested to see what it does before and after my modifications. I purchase 15liters of racing fuel and took that down with me. I ran my tank to near on dry (maybe 3-5 litres) by the time i got there so the race fuel would be as close to stright as i could get it. Unfortuntly 250 cars were there before me so i wasnt allowed to race :banghead: I wanted to test my are on racing fuel any way so, i chucked in my 15litres and ahead back after 1hr of watching the races. The power improvement was noticed as soon as i put my foot down on SH1. Heaps more power thoughout the rev range. I had a fantasic hassle free 220km in parts drive back to auckland with no problems.

I hear people always saying you will F your O2 sensors and sh*t but i personaly have never had a problem and used it in at lease 6 of my cars. The M3 as the most noticeable power gain tho.

What do you guys think of the stuff? At $2.50 a litre its getting up there with normal fuel costs and those of use with weekend cars could nearly run our cars soely on it....

Just after everyones thoughts?

[Guest Andrew]

What do you guys think of the stuff? At $2.50 a litre its getting up there with normal fuel costs and those of use with weekend cars could nearly run our cars soely on it....

aside from the fact its ilegal to use - its a dollar a litre more - and for a stock ecu/motor i'm sure its all pseudo horsepower

[*bM** 0]

Im telling you its noticable in my m3, was noticable in all the cars i run it on. Do you notice a diffrence when you run your car on 91 and 98, well its the same thing. The less performance orientated your engine is the less you will notice it, id say. Its not illegal to run your car on - just illegal to pump it in to your car. You have to pump it in to a carry away tank.

[conrod 1]

From memory the engine management system in the M3 adjusts to whatever fuel you are using, via the knock sensor. Using leaded fuel continously in your car will contaminate the lambda sensor, I think you will get about 5 or 6 hours running from a Bosch sensor before they are knackered,but entirely likely you will feel an improvement.

[Chris_guy 0]

it does make a difference ive used it in a few cars some carby some injected but it is actually illegal to use in a road car as u dont pay govt road tax thingy and we cant have that now can we

[smokenbaby 0]

O2 sensor will fail over time of continued use. The fuel is lead based and all modern cars have an O2 sensor that are not lead friendly. But as you said, there is performance to be gained. Any fuel that you can't buy from a service station out of their pump is illegal to use on public roads. Rally cars get away with it due to them being competition car, normally driven on public roads solely on touring stages. AVgas is also illegal to use on public roads. The sure fire give away for a cop other then the smell is the grey/white exhaust.

[Carl 3]

I've run 91, 96, 98, and used octane booster on the 98 and haven't notice a bloody difference between any of them for power. The 98 certainly gives better milage and the 91 runs like sh*t on a cold morning. I just use the ultimate cause it's just plain better even if I can't notice a power difference.

E: In summary, what's the point in using the racing fuel if you can't notice a diff between 91 and 98.

Edited November 9, 2005 by ///Carl

[Gus 5]

BECAUSE

e30s dont adjust to varying octanes. e36s do. pretty simple huh?

so its not suprising brendon noticed a increase in power in the m3, and that you didnt notice sh*t. but as it f**ks O2 sensors, its not really worthwhile

[smokenbaby 0]

You can replace the o2 sensor with a lead rated Bosch one. Cost is huge but if that is the way you want to go then so be it.

[Munkvy 0]

O2 sensor will fail over time of continued use. The fuel is lead based and all modern cars have an O2 sensor that are not lead friendly. But as you said, there is performance to be gained. Any fuel that you can't buy from a service station out of their pump is illegal to use on public roads. Rally cars get away with it due to them being competition car, normally driven on public roads solely on touring stages. AVgas is also illegal to use on public roads. The sure fire give away for a cop other then the smell is the grey/white exhaust.

if its illegal to use, why are you able to buy it at Mobil in Feilding? I realise its right next to the entrance to manfield, but they have it on pump there.... so that would mean anyone can go buy it?

[Gus 5]

from what i can gather, avgas is illegal to use on the road as it is not subject to road taxes. ie the govt is not receiving any $$ from you driving along the road, using gas like they do with normal petrol.

correct me if im wrong, but it makes sense

[conrod 1]

if its illegal to use, why are you able to buy it at Mobil in Feilding? I realise its right next to the entrance to manfield, but they have it on pump there.... so that would mean anyone can go buy it?

You are supposed to show your racing licence when you buy the stuff here, and it is intended to be for your race car to use at Manfield, they used to enforce this, not sure if they still do.

[E34-535ti 5]

You can't use it on the road if it has lead in it, which is illegal in NZ. Not sure what the story is with the lead free race fuels??

Manfield won't let you pump it into a car you have to put it in containers, also last time I got it you had to sign a form saying it would not be used on public roads etc.

[rxsumo 33]

When you buy the Race Gas at Mobil Manfeild you sign a release on the intended usage....ie you are not using it on the road. Hence you can fill a trailered car or jerry cans but not a car you have just driven into the gas station.

Since the removal of lead from the pump gas, it has been made illegal to drive any vehicle on the road or a leaded fuel.

Its unlikely that the cop will do too much about it, because I would guess it actually comes under some MSD, MED law or perhaps under the resource management Act, and would be fairly hard to prove without impounding the car, and having the exhaust emissions analysed....I'm guessing you would have seriously pissed the cop off before it gets to this....

Rally Cars get around the law, due to a loophole brought about for Motorsport NZ, which allows for trace elements of lead to be present in the exhaust emissions of competition cars coming off closed road special stages. It's implied that a Rally car would use pump gas while on a touring stage, and race gas while on the special stage.

[rxsumo 33]

Not sure what the story is with the lead free race fuels??

Are any available here yet?

It available overseas, as through Europe most Race Series Cars now run Cat's.

Generally "Race Gas" is aged AVGAS, AVGAS has a shelf life in the Airport tanks, and once the tanks are passed their use by dates the AVGAS is brought back and repackaged as Race Gas

[conrod 1]

Not sure what the story is with the lead free race fuels??

Are any available here yet?

It available overseas, as through Europe most Race Series Cars now run Cat's.

Generally "Race Gas" is aged AVGAS, AVGAS has a shelf life in the Airport tanks, and once the tanks are passed their use by dates the AVGAS is brought back and repackaged as Race Gas

spot on about your comments on race gas/avgas. Race gas is imported into NZ, a couple of examples are ELF WRF and VP fuels(various blends such as C14 and C16) and it is lead free. But at around $8 a litre, you wouldn't put it in your road car!

[cainchapman 0]

Anyway, back to one of the first comments. Post your 1/4 time when you get one. Fastest so far is a 14.41 in the wet by an E36 M3, that I know of. Our car next at 14.75.

Waiting for Andrew to finish his car and knock me down another level.

[*bM** 0]

avgas and race gas are completely diffrent, avgas is .60cents a litre from a airport (well it was 6months ago) and race fuel is $2.50 a litre both are imported both are much cleaner burning slighty lead based. race fuel is 100 - 102 octane, avgas is always constant 102 octane all around the world. I dont belive that race fuel is stale avgas, considering stale fuel is only brought about if the standerd fuel is left to get warm with oxygen causing it to decompose and lose a significant lose in octane. Airports dont store fuel like that, they store it in highly controlled conditions.

Its $102 US per sensor for my car, i need 4 haha damit. Ill stick to drag/track days. Ive got a company gas but i cant find a f'n mobile that sells race fuel haha allthough i can order it from MOBILE NZ for a good price so i might look in to buying it in 50 litre drums (or 2 galon what eva they have)

[conrod 1]

Normally known as "Racing No.1", the fuel you are paying 2.50 for IS just aged avgas, which by the way, will cost you a LOT more than .60 per litre (it hasn't been that price for a LONG time!) Proper race fuel such as ELF WRF, VP Fuels, Optimax, etc. cost $6 to $8 per litre, these are lead free fuels, unlike avgas/No.1 which has a decent lead content.

Edited November 10, 2005 by conrod

[rxsumo 33]

avgas and race gas are completely diffrent, avgas is .60cents a litre from a airport (well it was 6months ago) and race fuel is $2.50 a litre both are imported both are much cleaner burning slighty lead based. race fuel is 100 - 102 octane, avgas is always constant 102 octane all around the world. I dont belive that race fuel is stale avgas, considering stale fuel is only brought about if the standerd fuel is left to get warm with oxygen causing it to decompose and lose a significant lose in octane. Airports dont store fuel like that, they store it in highly controlled conditions.

Its $102 US per sensor for my car, i need 4 haha damit. Ill stick to drag/track days. Ive got a company gas but i cant find a f'n mobile that sells race fuel haha allthough i can order it from MOBILE NZ for a good price so i might look in to buying it in 50 litre drums (or 2 galon what eva they have)

Race Gas and AVGAS dont have a conventional RON octane rating.

I cant remember exactly where the RON scale ends, its just over the 100 mark.

If you could apply the RON scale to these fuels AVGAS would be around 132 and Racegas is typically in a range 110-120.

All fuels have a shelf life, for Petrol fuels it probably has more to do with seasonal changes more than anything. In winter you have a "lighter" fuel to promote easier starting, and in summer this fuel would evaporate off easier.

The reason AVGAS probably has a shelf life is that the fuel is hydroscopic....try leaving AVGAS in the tank over the off season.....and everything goes rusty!

The fuel is stored in underground tanks....these will condensate and get water through the fuel....when I worked in Gas Stations typically in our 35000 litre tanks there would be around 500-1000 litres of water at the bottom. It didnt really matter because the pumps never drew off the bottom of the tanks, and to have to empty the tanks on an operational service station probably is best left until major refit time.

Its a bit different with AVGAS as it will "pick up" the water and, water is the last thing you want in aviation fuel...at altitude it freezes!

Edited November 10, 2005 by rxsumo

[rev 0]

Last friday night i took my car down to mere mere to drag race it, just interested to see what it does before and after my modifications. I purchase 15liters of racing fuel and took that down with me. I ran my tank to near on dry (maybe 3-5 litres) by the time i got there so the race fuel would be as close to stright as i could get it. Unfortuntly 250 cars were there before me so i wasnt allowed to race :banghead: I wanted to test my are on racing fuel any way so, i chucked in my 15litres and ahead back after 1hr of watching the races. The power improvement was noticed as soon as i put my foot down on SH1. Heaps more power thoughout the rev range. I had a fantasic hassle free 220km in parts drive back to auckland with no problems.

I hear people always saying you will F your O2 sensors and sh*t but i personaly have never had a problem and used it in at lease 6 of my cars. The M3 as the most noticeable power gain tho.

What do you guys think of the stuff? At $2.50 a litre its getting up there with normal fuel costs and those of use with weekend cars could nearly run our cars soely on it....

Just after everyones thoughts?

[rev 0]

Last friday night i took my car down to mere mere to drag race it, just interested to see what it does before and after my modifications. I purchase 15liters of racing fuel and took that down with me. I ran my tank to near on dry (maybe 3-5 litres) by the time i got there so the race fuel would be as close to stright as i could get it. Unfortuntly 250 cars were there before me so i wasnt allowed to race :banghead: I wanted to test my are on racing fuel any way so, i chucked in my 15litres and ahead back after 1hr of watching the races. The power improvement was noticed as soon as i put my foot down on SH1. Heaps more power thoughout the rev range. I had a fantasic hassle free 220km in parts drive back to auckland with no problems.

I hear people always saying you will F your O2 sensors and sh*t but i personaly have never had a problem and used it in at lease 6 of my cars. The M3 as the most noticeable power gain tho.

What do you guys think of the stuff? At $2.50 a litre its getting up there with normal fuel costs and those of use with weekend cars could nearly run our cars soely on it....

Just after everyones thoughts?