M50 EWS + E30 Swap info

[Surge 1]

Just picked up an M50 out of an E36 325i (Vin - FA75096, According to real OEM Produced in 11/94) to go into my pre-fl 318is.

My car has a 318is complete wiring loom (every wire in the car, even door wiring etc..) with 325i running gear (beefier diff etc..)

It has the 413 DME (which apparantly means it has EWS - Security) albeit, there are apparantly 2 versions of EWS, EWS and EWS II - the later being more of a problem.. I've also heard stories of people having no problems getting the motors running out of a 94 E36, but only the later 95+ E36's. Can anyone clarify the differences between EWS I, and EWS II and if it does have a problematic security system that prevents starting can I use a different non EWS ECU to run my (assumeably) EWS Motor on? (Confusing?)

Also in terms of mounting the engine in the car the standard option is to use E36 motor arms, with e28 535i mounts with an e21 320i booster. On E30.de they are able to accomplish the swap without the use of a different booster, but lift one side of the engine up to gain some clearance - possible?

The engine has 3 pipes going to the heatercore on the E36, E30 has two - it passes through what looks to be a sensor (this splits it to 3) is this required for the operation of the engine? Hoses can be seen in this pic:

Any knowledgeable replies would be greatly recieved! Cheers, James.

[Guest Spargo]

First: Stop reading US based swap info - alot of it doesn't apply to Euro motors. Its good to a point, but E30Zone is much more helpful to us.

the 506DME is the only US M3 DME with no security - 95MY M3 for reference. (red label)

It only takes 5 wires to get EWS running. You still need matching DME / EWS + keys though. Also you need connector for EWS unit and the small transmit / receive unit that the EWS antenna plugs into.

It's up the the ECU whether or not it has EWS. Since you have a silver label 413, you will need to eliminate the EWS in order to start the car.

It pays to check though, as there have been cases where the 413 didn't have EWS - you won't know till you try to crank for the first time. As far as i'm aware, this is a red label 413, so check whether you've got silver or red.

Brown label 403 is for Non vanos motors, not very useful for Post 92 vanos motors.

Turner motorsport do a chip for this purpose - the chip is programmed to delete EWS.

Both EWS 1 and 2 cut off fuel and spark when the key doesn't match the DME.

Don't you dare do the swap without changing boosters! How god damn ghetto is it to have your engine resting against the booster - answer is alot, seeing as engines move around in the engine bay. Aim for at least an inch clearance. Also, don't space the mounts - just do it properly and use E28 series motor mounts - either M5 or 535i will be fine.

When doing the heater pipes - you shouldn't need to bend them when you join them to the car, but if you need to, insert some copper up there to keep the pipe diamter and GO SLOWLY - breaking them off sucks.

[drifty325i 0]

Cool carbon cam cover!

[Surge 1]

Thanks for the info Spargo, Very helpful - the DME has a silver sticker, I too have heard of EWS not necessarily being on the a silver 413, Just have to try and sort it later - easy enough to do.

Just having problems locating a booster at this stage, not many E21 320i Brake boosters around... Know of where I could obtain one?

Yeah, the US swap info is only of so much use, bearing in mind the US motors suck compared to our superior Euro ones

I have the E36 arms off the motor, Have the rubber mounts off a e28 535i - so mountings not a problem.

Drifty325i, Yes, the carbon cover is indeed mint - few scratches, but I'll buff them off

I'm using a Getrag260, Planning on using the flywheel clutch combo thats with the engine now - or, even better swapping the flywheel and using the starter and clutch off an E30 (single mass, not dual - and lighten it further = rev happy m50 = the win) Only need to tap 2 bolt holes correct, to mate the 260 to the m50?

[318isCoupe 0]

Whatever you do.. try and get rid of that dual mass!

And yes, rev happy M50 = the win.

[Guest Spargo]

I'm using a Getrag260, Planning on using the flywheel clutch combo thats with the engine now - or, even better swapping the flywheel and using the starter and clutch off an E30 (single mass, not dual - and lighten it further = rev happy m50 = the win) Only need to tap 2 bolt holes correct, to mate the 260 to the m50?

Whatever gearbox you use, you have to use that specific hardware... for example if you were to use a 260, you'd need the E30 starter, E30 flywheel, and an E30 clutch setup. You can't mix and match.

[TronSpec 0]

Thanks for the info Spargo, Very helpful - the DME has a silver sticker, I too have heard of EWS not necessarily being on the a silver 413, Just have to try and sort it later - easy enough to do.

Just having problems locating a booster at this stage, not many E21 320i Brake boosters around... Know of where I could obtain one?

Yeah, the US swap info is only of so much use, bearing in mind the US motors suck compared to our superior Euro ones

Yeah I had the same problem finding a e21 booster. There's heaps around just nobody keeps them or throw's them out. I found mine from spotting a old e21 sitting in a padock up north here. I approched the owner and she said that I could help myself. I had to get it recondtioned though.

Also US swap info is based around the left hand drive e30... Exhaust manifold clearance issues

Plus you are gonna need the flywheel starter and clutch setup from the 260 box and cut and weld the shift selector rod 10 degrees.

I have't heard you talk about sorting a e34 oil sump etc as you won't be able to sit the e36 motor in your e30 cause of crossmember clearences.

Yeah I had the same problem finding a e21 booster. There's heaps around just nobody keeps them or throw's them out. I found mine from spotting a old e21 sitting in a padock up north here. I approched the owner and she said that I could help myself. I had to get it recondtioned though.

Also US swap info is based around the left hand drive e30... Exhaust manifold clearance issues

Plus you are gonna need the flywheel starter and clutch setup from the 260 box and cut and weld the shift selector rod 10 degrees and modiy or make up gearbox crossmember.

I have't heard you talk about sorting a e34 oil sump etc as you won't be able to sit the e36 motor in your e30 cause of crossmember clearences.

[Surge 1]

Yeah got the e34 pan sorted and the oilpump pickup. Got a 260 box, with clutch flywheel etc.... So yeah thats all sorted and I'm aware of the selector modification. Can anyone confirm that an E30 320i gearbox mount is the one to use with this conversion?

Cheers for the help!

[TronSpec 0]

Yeah got the e34 pan sorted and the oilpump pickup. Got a 260 box, with clutch flywheel etc.... So yeah thats all sorted and I'm aware of the selector modification. Can anyone confirm that an E30 320i gearbox mount is the one to use with this conversion?

Cheers for the help!

Yeah man that's all I used . And they are only like $40 each from bnt

[Surge 1]

Yeah man that's all I used . And they are only like $40 each from bnt

Sorted out an e21 brake booster, out of a 320i/323i... Now we're rocking... Engine hopefully floating above my engine bay tommorow...

[Guest Spargo]

Hit me up if you've got more questions, I disected the entire r3v article, and took all the main points from it. I seriously reckon if you've got all the parts ready, its a swap that could be done in a weekend using 2 competent people.

(minus wiring of course )

[Surge 1]

Yeah in terms of having all the componants ready for the swap I too could see it being done over one weekend of solid work.

I've tried to pull as much useful information out of the internet as possible also re: the swap, a lot of useless crap on there to get through.

Wiring is fairly self explanatory, easy enough to test. Need to tap a turbo return line into the sump as well.......

[mops 4]

Yeah in terms of having all the componants ready for the swap I too could see it being done over one weekend of solid work.

I've tried to pull as much useful information out of the internet as possible also re: the swap, a lot of useless crap on there to get through.

Wiring is fairly self explanatory, easy enough to test. Need to tap a turbo return line into the sump as well.......

alot of resources on that conversion can be found on www.r3vlimited.net

keep us updated.

i didnt know that e28 535 engine mounts can be used for e30 m50 conversion. that is such a discovery for me... it makes the conversion so much easier... because in that case m50 engine is pretty much a bolt on, right ? can somebody confirm 100% seen it done ?

[Guest Spargo]

Dude, the M50 swap IS bolt on.

The bore spacing in the M50 is the same as the M20 - basically a DOHC M20.

[mops 4]

alot of resources on that conversion can be found on www.r3vlimited.net

keep us updated.

i didnt know that e28 535 engine mounts can be used for e30 m50 conversion. that is such a discovery for me... it makes the conversion so much easier... because in that case m50 engine is pretty much a bolt on, right ? can somebody confirm 100% seen it done ?

yes, i do realize that. it is even possibly to swap cranks from m20 to m50 and vice versa with minimal mods.

but i never considered m50 swap because of the need of fabricating custom engine mounts, i have no idea how come i missed that part of crucial information...

and which gearbox will bolt into m50 ? gertag 260/265 ?

i'd have to have a look myself on one before attmepting such swap myself....

[Guest Spargo]

Even if you missed that bit of info, the ability to use E36 engine arms, rather than custom ones ala M30 means that al you'd need to do is have some custom urethane mounts made up.

You understand we're talking about the bits that mount the motor arms to the front subframe, rather than anything that bolts to the actual block?

Getrag 260 will bolt up, need to tap the bottom 4 holes though and shave some oil pan down, 265 will work also.

ZF 5spd from E36 works too.

[mops 4]

Even if you missed that bit of info, the ability to use E36 engine arms, rather than custom ones ala M30 means that al you'd need to do is have some custom urethane mounts made up.

You understand we're talking about the bits that mount the motor arms to the front subframe, rather than anything that bolts to the actual block?

Getrag 260 will bolt up, need to tap the bottom 4 holes though and shave some oil pan down, 265 will work also.

ZF 5spd from E36 works too.

so even when using those m30 bits (not engine mounts ?) there's still some fabrication required of engine mounts ?

[Guest Spargo]

No, there is NO custom work. All off the shelf parts - E36 arms, E28 mounts. Got it?

I was just saying that if you swap to an M30, you have to custom build the arms.

The ONLY piece of custom work in the engine E30 M5x swap is a transmission bracket if you are using the E30 5spd (getrag 260) or the M3 Evo 6spd. Once all bolted up, the tranny leans to the right, so you must make a custom bracket as there will be a gap if you use the E30 one. The reason for this is that the increased angle of the M50 (explained below) sees the 260 sitting at an angle.

You can shim the E30 bracket, but its not exactly difficult to fab one up - I smell a group buy.

Another thing, the M50 is designed to run at 30degrees, and the M20 at 20 degress, so your shifter will sit 10degrees out - either bend or cut and weld your selector rod to make up that 10 degrees.

[Surge 1]

Also helps in terms of getting the motor certed when you're using oem arms, mounts and mounting positions.

That and I also picked up an e21 brake booster from GAC, Going to get it tested, re-cond if need be - and chromed (it's rusty and sh*t looking at the moment and apparantly the price of getting it chromed will be about as much as if I were to buy 3 cans of spraypaint and do it black) Can the E30 rod not be swapped into this booster to fit?

[mops 4]

Also helps in terms of getting the motor certed when you're using oem arms, mounts and mounting positions.

That and I also picked up an e21 brake booster from GAC, Going to get it tested, re-cond if need be - and chromed (it's rusty and sh*t looking at the moment and apparantly the price of getting it chromed will be about as much as if I were to buy 3 cans of spraypaint and do it black) Can the E30 rod not be swapped into this booster to fit?

ok, ok

that sounds interesting....

so e28 m30 engine mounts, ok, no problem there...

e21 brake booster, no problem there either... but if i wanted to recondition one... you can fix the rust and stuff, what about the rubber diaphgarm inside... wouldnt it be cranked and stuff (cos it's old) ?

e36 arms... which arms are you talking about ? front steering arms or what ? (sorry, not too knowledgable in the suspension department)

and the tranny mount, or better yet e36 tranny - that would be a straight fir, right ?

sounds too easy....

[Guest Spargo]

e36 arms... which arms are you talking about ? front steering arms or what ? (sorry, not too knowledgable in the suspension department

the engine mounting arms - nothing to so with suspension.

[Surge 1]

Alrighty, Got the E34 pan on today along with the E34 oil pickup - One less thing to do... The Getrag 260 will be in it by next Friday if all goes according to plan, and then the motor and box in over the weekend.

[Surge 1]

Where would be the best place to tap an oil feed for a turbo on this engine?

[318isCoupe 0]

Where would be the best place to tap an oil feed for a turbo on this engine?

Do a remote oil filter and take the oil feed from that line... on the clean side of the filter.