Jun

I think you got most of it covered.  The wiring loom of the SMG is very delicate, we also put in a good amount of liquid electrical tape to hopefully prolong it (see photo).  This can't be bought separately, need the whole SMG to get one.  Someone used to refurb and resolder this but in 2020 he is not doing it anymore.  I also replaced some parts after the transmission, here is what I had on my post:

• Driveshaft flex joint, Driveshaft center support bearing, Driveshaft end bushing
• Transmission mounts
• Exhaust pipe gaskets, hex nuts, torx bolts

Sorry I wasn't able to graph the water temp over the weekend.  The car was already running more than 5 mins when I remembered, so likely the water will be close to 80C by then.  I did try to observe the oil temp, about 8-10 mins it's on the 75C (the first line).  Then by about 12-ish mins it's about 85-90C a little less than your photo above, rpm gauge on the full 8250 limit.  Then this slowly creeps just before 100C from 15-20 mins.  So it really goes up really fast, then the last 5-10C it's slowly gets there.  It would not go lower/colder once it is near the 100C, will only get hotter when you floor it then goes back quickly below 100C.  Ambient temp was about 13-16C outside, as a reference.  Good luck and let us know what eventually the root cause is.  I don't think something is totally broken, but there are definitely some symptoms of something is not working 100% correctly.

32 minutes ago, Twistee said:

Cheers, my experience until this started was pretty much as you describe. Warm up in 15 minutes to a stable solid temp and then the temp only ever increases when I get angry with it, it certainly doesn't move in the other direction. 

BMWorkshop did mention that the DME could be dying....... and that this and the random radiator fan action is just electrical gremlins as a result. 

Electrical gremlins are hard, in my case I am glad it turned out to be just a speed sensor.  It did take me a new battery, IBS and maybe more than a year of anxiety unable to know what is wrong as it would not consistently appear.  You might want to ask @promo about DME stuff.  I haven't read any DME issues, its likely an uncommon thing.  Maybe good to get a 2nd opinion?  I think M-Tech guy was looking to get a 2nd hand DME, but then I saw his video and the symptoms was similar and told him it just a speed sensor.   I am just speculating here, but I think the networking of these cars and later has gone so complicated and not resilient that corner cases makes the car do weird actions.

I had a quick look (fast forward and skipping some sections) at the 3 min video.  I really don't know if it's not normal or not.  My needle does move slightly, but from recollection it usually goes hotter, likely doesn't go colder.  However, since I don't really look at in detail, I would probably not be able look at it well if it goes cooler.  It definitely moves slower than yours... but perspective can be different when you zoom into the needle.  What is probably unusual or just different from our car, we are definitely up to normal oil temp in less than 15 mins.  From my data before it was 12 mins, which is just about right as this usually about the time I pass through a tunnel near our place.... that is why I know it's less than 15 mins.  Typical routine: Start M5, move other cars, takes about 2-3 mins.... do the usual commute I should hit the tunnel just around less than 10 mins... by that time the car has been running around 15 mins.... then it's GO time!  

Sorry to hear this.  Yes the water is supposed to be near 80C because the thermostat is opens on 79C.  Sorry no screen shots just my old memory recall when I had an expansion tank crack.  I monitored the water temp and oil (see my thread) at that time.  Here is some info I copied from the thread that might be relevant.  What you have described is correct the oil temp does go up 90c - ish in about 12 mins as per my notes.  It would sit there, can go up near 100C if you gun it but goes back in about a minute on idle.

If I get to run the car on the weekend I might try graph the water temp, so you can compare with a newly installed thermostat is like.  From what I recall it just really shoots up in the first 5 mins, then just bounces in the 80C area.... +/-5C I think... not sure.  My fan hardly runs, when it is hot it would turn on for a few secs then off.  I only heard the fan run for more than a minute when I had the electrical gremlins caused by wheel sensor...
 

Quote

- oil temp 75c after 10 mins, normal increase of temp 

- oil temp 85-90c 12 mins, still normal expected warm up

So I have to just wait for new expansion tank.  They also suggested to change the thermostat as sometimes it gets damaged on high temps.  I will do that, but I think the thermostat is fine.  During my drive home, I plug in a scanner.  On my phone I can see the temp go up to 80 C in 10 mins or so.  I also see the temp being stable at 80 C afterwards, so I think it is ok (my diagnosis, not Powerhaus).  I will replace the thermostat regardless.  They also advice to get the oil change as soon as practical, I will do that when we back from our trip.

Watch M Tech guy channel, his car and our car came from the same lot and batch.

(1) M Tech Guy - YouTube

You can see my pre-purchase thread here, might be useful in your pre-purchase

New here, seriously thinking about E60 M5 - New Member Introductions - bimmersport.co.nz

I still keep my thread updated now and then, if you want see how has it been with our ownership of our E60 M5

E60 M5 on its first 2 week and 2,500+ kms with us - Page 4 - Projects - bimmersport.co.nz

Went for a quick charge and stopover. Saw Brayden’s M50 I4 at a Tesla supercharger network, which is now open to other cars with CCS2 plugs. No M5 as it’s too costly for this trip, just the commuter black Model Y.

On 4/8/2024 at 5:42 AM, treone said:

Its a genuine question and sometimes it good to be reminded of these things.

I’d say, the ‘fact’ that they are wrong is more confusing than concerning. My guess is majority of drivers don’t actually realise their speedo is out and/or don’t give a hoot either - just observe the various driving styles/behaviours (slow, fast and dickhead) out in the wild 😁. 

At this stage of life, quite enjoy driving at the speed limit knowing that ‘I can’ if I ever wanted to 😎. Years gone past it was completely the opposite.

Now that I know (again), all that’s needed is to make the appropriate adjustment 😎 … Time to engage ‘Driving Miss Daisy’ mode haha 🤣

Here is the long answer https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/why-does-my-speedo-read-higher-than-road-side-speed-monitors/

it’s not an issue for cars I put bigger tires like Prado or Cayenne, taller tires will roll longer but you may over speed even if your speedometer is under speed limit. I find the Tesla to be 1 kmh under reporting only just comply w/ this weird rule.

Nothing really wrong with the car, but I already booked at Powerhaus because of the misfire. I was able to fix the misfire myself, since it takes a long time to queue in Powerhaus I decided to keep the booking. I still had some stash of parts that are just gathering dust for years. Finally replaced all 10 fuel injectors, thermostat and got fresh brake fluid. If anyone needs working injectors or thermostat (69k km mileage only) I can send them to you. DM me, I might keep 2 injectors just for quick diagnostics in the future. A few more parts still waiting to be used: upgraded throttle actuator gears and mosfet, fuel pump/filter… 

Got new keys cut by @promo yay! Finally no more crappy weak remote range because of old sealed batteries.

57 minutes ago, Twistee said:

Cars back at BMWorkshop as there is either a thermostat, temp sensor or some other electrical gremlin having a go at the radiator fan control. It's running significantly more than it should and overcooling, which is no good for fuel consumption, my cats etc. So while waiting for the fix I was glossing through the M5 technical training manual HERE and found out the real reason why you cant just manual your 7 speed Getrag - because this would be your shift pattern .

 

BTW if you need a working thermostat I have one. Just replace mine, nothing wrong with it but had a new one for a while since the 50th M-anniversary when car tried to kill itself. I replaced the expansion tank long ago but thermostat came in late so was only able to replace it yesterday.

Hello fellow rod bearer 🤣 Very unique interior. 

Actually the cooled and ventilated seats is one my favorite feature, which I thought of nothing initially until I first used it on a hot day.

Look for M-tech YouTube channel to see M5 maintenance and tips, you can also look at my thread here of what I have done so far.. We also started with a low k car, 54k kms. Stock and untouched. It’s got its pros, but cons. All of the big ticket items will be done in your ownership. Happy to help if you have any questions about some issues that you may encounter.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:39 AM, GorGasm said:

There's a lot more going on under the surface on the cyber truck.  Structural body panels, battery tech, steer by wire, etc. Euros are the cars crammed with gimmicks.  China knows what's up, make high commodity, affordable, practical, and efficient ev boxes on wheels.

Yes most people that criticize don’t see underneath the cyber truck. Definitely an engineering and manufacturing feat, different times.

On 1/25/2024 at 1:07 PM, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Less than an M5…😁

Would I buy one over an M5, probably not.

However, the more I drive fully electric vehicles, the more I am liking them! Will probably go electric for my next company car. I must be getting too old.

Same here, me and my wife actually thought we will not like our Tesla initially. We just got it as a spreadsheet decision, as our fuel bills was $1,000 - $1,200 a month. EVs are just different, also lots of engineering as well just different. The none car part is also great, I can sleep in it while waiting for my daughters archery, cabin is always preconditioned hot or cold, constantly getting upgraded with new useful functions as you own it. I do also enjoy more of the M5, coming from a silent EV the V10 and SMG does sound and move more brutal. It seems i5 edrive 40 touring will never come here? I did see an edrive 40 on the road, but only M60 is sold here?

We had ours from filthy dog for over a year. 3 of them seems still pretty good.

We have used Jon at Auto38 before for our M5. Since he has moved we have used Powehaus, we have our old Cayenne done there as well. I do some repair and maintenance myself. My tools and skills are limited. I have also used A1 auto electrical as Aaron is good for electrical issues. I have used C. Moore motors for our Skyline and Prado, he is good if you are not too dear with your car. Premiair for aircon is very good. All my batteries are done by Luke at Battery town in lower hutt. I have visited Mike Page once just to check our M5 after we purchased it, he is too far for me. There are good mechanics out there just need to find them, not all are perfect. Even the best has made mistakes, I either fix it, let them redo or occasionally get a 2nd opinion.

The M5 ownership has never a dull moment.  Last week I have another misfire, this time it’s the opposite symptoms.  Misfire on cold start, no misfire when the engine is proper temp.  Sure enough the other ionic current control unit was the issue.  I didn’t bother to swap the units anymore just bought the part and replaced it.  This is about $500 USD / $750 NZD each, well at least the labor was free.  This is easy to replace yourself if you are careful.  2 test drives today, no more misfires.  Ok I hope the rest of 2024 will be boring.

49 minutes ago, treone said:

Hmmm might have to investigate this - damn annoying misfires! Lol

like your work @Jun - are you and your technician avail for v10 coils and plugs replacement job?🤣🤣

If you have a persistent misfire that appears after car is warm (after 5 mins). This is an easier fix than coils and spark plugs but more expensive. Just remove top air box for room but if you have better tools you can just remove it directly. It’s just 4 bolts per unit per side. Easy to diagnose, swap units, run car for 5 minutes if misfire cylinders just swaps it’s likely the ionic current control unit. Just be careful with the wire harness and plug.

Coils and plugs near the firewalls from what I know is tricky, I got Jon to replace all 10 when 1 of them misfired. Get a real mechanic like Jon; I am an armchair mechanic, with a sprained finger and a daughter that cares about not straining my finger further 😇

I guess M5 ownership means something has to happen every year.  Got a misfire a few weeks ago, I just thought hmmm this is odd just got 10 new coils and 10 new spark plugs less than 10k kms.  Anyway, I read a little and I found a good potential culprit... Ionic Current Control unit.  Fancy pants distributor that BMW experimented on the S85.  I thought it doesn't seem to be hard to diagnose so I gave it a try.  Swap the left and right unit around, sure enough the misfire just went from cylinder 8 to 3.

The part wasn't cheap, but to reach it was relatively easy.  Just remove the airbox, it's cover and wire harness.   My daughter helped me a bit, as I have a finger injury.  We discussed it a bit, why I think my theory is correct and just order the part.  Ordered from FCP Euro with a kind discount from the CEO, about a week after it arrived along with some other parts.

Today my daughter helped me again, my finger is taking ages to heal.  Top part is the new one, bottom is the broken one.  The other working seems to have been replaced as well by previous owner.  I may order another one eventually, ordering 2 will definitely attract customs.  Test driven the car, that sorted out the misfire which will appear when car in on temp.  I hope the rest of the year will be boring... 

Spotted an AMG BMW 🤣

Finally fixed my electrical issues: abs, dsc, smg, trunk not opening, key, lights, etc... the culprit is an ABS front wheel sensor. Its seems the original is shorter as per Aaron at A1 auto electrical caused all the chaos, shipped 2 new ABS wheel speed sensors to replace it. Errors are gone, after it being persistent in the last few weeks instead of being intermittent over a year.  Revised part number is 34-52-7-853-583 about $145 USD each for original BMW.  Local dealer is around $500 NZD each. I still have the old pair if anybody wants it but will throw them away eventually. 

Saw a couple of Z3, Z4 and M2 yesterday at Heritage Park

Minor update, ever since taking that longer road trip to Mangatainoka the diff chatter is significantly better. I guess it only needed a real long drive to get diff oil in.  So far no electrical panic since changing the IBS as well, only discharge warning when it had to be left while we where out of town. I had never had this warning, so likely that old IBS is really busted. Aaron also couldn’t get any data out of past 2 days. I also just changed the wipers, so far 2023 has been a boring year… knock on wood 😅

Got also parts accumulating in the shelves and to do items. 10 injectors, fuel pump, thermostat, throttle body actuator gears, etc. I am looking to change our keys, the battery is probably super low now. I know you can replace the battery by soldering, but I might buy an aftermarket key and code that in case I break the original keys.

Looks like MAHLE is making improved bearings. Probably worth looking at, hopefully not a marketing deal.

On 7/17/2023 at 7:24 PM, Palazzo said:

https://www.hgperformance.co/blog/bmw-rod-bearings-their-maintenance/#:~:text=BMW Rod Bearing Maintenance&text=The original rod bearings should,for a high-performing vehicle.
Found the answer, a new bearing design from 2011 on and these guys reckon their solution is permanent.

No real hard data on this, Jon did ours after he did Pete’s car. Ours was 61k kms, insurance paid most of it (long story). I have only added 7k kms for 2 years. At this rate I will be too old before the next rod bearings. I think just do it in your ownership if you plan to keep it, as well as other items. It’s kinda part of the ownership as i would take it.

So the E60 M5 is a reliable car?!? 🤣 Although likely need a clutch at 10,000 miles with the launches it did.

BMW M5 Generations DRAG RACE - YouTube

If you need the clutch centering tool, I have one. I had to buy one as Jon didn’t have one when we did our flywheel and clutch.