My german plates are f****** illegal now ...

[joshnz 2]

Just got a letter from the LTSA -

It has been bought to our attention your euro style plates affixed to your car are illegal and may not have been purchased from PPlates limited ...

Blah blah, I need to affix the original plates immediately or get fined $200, f**king ******

Anyone else had this sh*t yet? Yes my plates are "german plates" but holy hell how stupid.

/rant

[kiwi535 538]

any idea how you were "found out".Had any parking or speed camera tickets lately?There are other german plate owners here too!

[nz320i 0]

there are soo many people with those plates cos ltsa plates are bullshit! ive never had trouble?

[joshnz 2]

Would not have a clue how they found out ... never had a ticket, parking or otherwise, hardly ever park my car in town either. The letter is personally signed though not computer generated ... x1000

[bravo 34]

Ask them to show you the legislation that proves you have to have LTSA plates - AFAIK it has never actually been proven by LTS, they just took the liberty of stating that is the case and it has never been proven in court.

[cainchapman 0]

They have always been illegal. This has been stated many times on the site.

The sale and marketing of personalised registration plates is contracted to Personalised Plates Limited.

The line above is from the LTSA website.

[bravo 34]

Cain - it has never been tested in law - Personalised plates say it is illegal hence why it is often said on this site, but there is no law that says you have to display a plate made by them.

There are a couple of laws - 1 is the Transport (Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Notice 1995 which says:

Form of registration plates (other than personalised registration plates or trade plates)

(1)This clause applies to a registration plate other than a personalised registration plate or trade plate.

(2)The distinguishing marks on a registration plate shall be—

(a)Embossed, and coloured aluminium on a black background; or

(b)Embossed, and coloured black against a reflective background consisting of white retro-reflective sheeting,—

and the base material of a registration plate shall be aluminium.

(3)The distinguishing marks for a registration plate shall be,—

(a)In the case of plates for motor cycles, mopeds, and tractors,—

(i)A series of numerals from 1 to 99999 (both numbers inclusive); or

(ii)A series of numerals from 1 to 999 (both numbers inclusive) followed by any combination of 2 or 3 letters; or

(iii)A series of numerals from 1 to 99 (both numbers inclusive) above any combination of 3 letters[; or]

[(iv)a letter, followed by a numeral from 1 to 9 (both numbers inclusive), followed by any combination of 3 letters; or]

[(v)a letter, followed by a numeral from 1 to 9 (both numbers inclusive), above any combination of 3 letters:]

(b)In the case of plates for trailers,—

(i)A series of numerals from 1 to 99999 (both numbers inclusive); or

(ii)A series of numerals from 1 to 9999 (both numbers inclusive) preceded or followed by a letter; or

(iii)A series of numerals from 1 to 999 (both numbers inclusive) followed by any combination of 2 or 3 letters[; or]

[(iv)a series of numerals from 1 to 999 (both numbers inclusive) preceded and followed by a letter:]

[©In the case of plates for any motor vehicle not referred to in paragraph (a) or paragraph (,—

(i)Any combination of 2 letters, followed by any of the numbers from 1 to 9999 (inclusive), or

(ii)Any combination of 3 letters, followed by any of the numbers from 1 to 999 (inclusive).]

(4)No combination of letters and numerals shall be used on any registration plate under subclause (3) of this clause if that combination of letters or numerals appears or is to appear on—

(a)A personalised registration plate; or

(B)A trade plate.

[(5)To avoid doubt, nothing in subclause (3)(a) or ( permits distinguishing marks on a registration plate to be assigned (whether in the same or a in different format) to more than 1 vehicle.

and :

3Form of personalised registration plates

(1)The distinguishing marks on a personalised registration plate shall be embossed, and coloured black or red or blue, as the case may be, against a reflective background consisting of white retro-reflective sheeting.

(2)Any subsidiary characters, messages, symbols, or slogans that have been approved by the Registrar for display on a personalised registration plate under section 9E(2)(a) of the Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986, may be of any colour.

(3)The base material of a personalised registration plate shall be aluminium.

There is an amendment in 1999 which does not affect the above except allows for the newer 3 letter 3 number plates and another in 2006 which does a similar amendment for motorcycles, mopeds and trailers.

Also read the Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986

It does not specify who must supply the plates although it does say the registrar may force you to surrender any plates not afficed to a vehicle (hence you old ones after you buy German Plates.

All law pertaining to what is allowed regarding registration plates is published by the Minister for Transport in the NZ Gaztte - this is prescribed in statute (below)- show me where it forces personalised plates only to supply plates and I'll eat my words.

Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986

14Form of registration plates and licences

(1)The Minister may from time to time, by notice in the Gazette,—

(a)Prescribe the form and colour of registration plates and licences, the size, shape, and character of the letters, numbers, or distinguishing marks to be shown on them, and the means to be adopted to make the plates and licences easily visible:

(b)Prescribe the number of registration plates to be displayed and the position or positions in which registration plates and licences are to be displayed.

(2)The Minister may, under subsection (1) of this section, prescribe specific types of or distinguishing marks for registration plates and licences to be issued for use on vehicles operated or regularly used by persons holding specified offices or persons, governments, or organisations having specified status, immunities, or privileges, and specific types of or distinguishing marks for plates and licences to be issued for use on vehicles of specified classes.

(3)The Minister may from time to time, by notice in the Gazette, prescribe various fees payable in respect of the issue of registration plates and licences to cover the cost of production and issue of the plates and licences; and may if the costs so warrant it, prescribe higher fees in respect of the production and issue of personalised registration plates.

Edited April 21, 2007 by bravo

[bravo 34]

Found this:

very person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500 who—

(e)Uses any motor vehicle which has affixed to it any registration plate or licence which is not authorised by or under this Act to be affixed to that vehicle or any other item which in either case is likely to be mistaken for any authorised registration plate or licence; or

would need to be tested in court as to what is a plate not authorised - as authorised plates, as far as I have so far discovered, are not prescribed as being made by any particluar entity, it is just regulated as to the form the plates must take (aluminium, white background, blah blah).

Edited April 21, 2007 by bravo

[bravo 34]

The law does say that the

[(6)The Secretary may authorise any person (whether or not employed in the Ministry of Transport) to issue registration plates and certificates of registration under this section, and any such authorisation may—

(a)Include within the authorisation any employees or agents of the person principally authorised:

(b)Specify the manner in which the authority is to be exercised:

©Also be expressed to apply for the purposes of issuing substitute registration plates and duplicates of certificates of registration and duplicate personalised plates under section 15.]

but it still doesn't preclude you from displaying your own plates that conform to the requirements.

[318Touring 40]

I received the same letter on my E39. However I just ignored it, what were they gonna do? Come over to my house and ask to inspect the car? Wait somewhere in town in case I drive by? Put my details with the tax collector .. oops sorry police, and ask them to keep an eye for my car?

Note though my euro plates were NZ replica, so they were harder to distinguish.

BTW, I had the same discussion with martyyn and we agreed that the plates are illegal...

[bravo 34]

I'm no lawyer, but the legislation is not clear. I'd fight it if you have the time and $ to do so.

[cainchapman 0]

I'm sure that the German plates do conform to the form factor of the law. However, the licence in NZ for manufacturing personalised plates is with that company. And would therefore be grounds for them not being Authorised. Parallel imports of everything are rife, so I'd bet you have a case there too.

However, NZ Customs have let them in....so, yes. If they tried to enforce it, I'd take it to court too.

[joshnz 2]

Far out, there is alot of underlying bs here ... I might just leave them on for the time being and see what happens, surely they won't put a broadast out on my car ... they better not lol.

[Guest Denny Crane]

Far out, there is alot of underlying bs here ... I might just leave them on for the time being and see what happens, surely they won't put a broadast out on my car ... they better not lol.

You might get lucky and they'll focus on stopping some real crime... or not

[M325is 0]

I'd say you have been spotted by a personalised plate employee driving with that plate and they have put you forward to the police or LTSA. Bonus for the employee, 0 for you.

[M325is 0]

If you want a german plate, buy a euro plate from personalised plates then get me to send you german decals to stick over the top. If you get caught out like so, just remove decals for awhile.

[martyyn 2]

Bravo, Ive seen the statutes and my lawyer wife has read them from top to bottom. It clearly states that only plates made by authorised agents are legal.

German plates are illegal....END OF STORY.

If you want to take it to court you can have my wifes number, we could do with the money

As for how you got found out....three years ago it was mentioned that the LTSA were trialling plate reading cameras. They are obviously being used now !

If youve been sent the letter it will have been noted and if you get another one you will have no defense should you be fined.

Edited April 21, 2007 by Penrod 'Penry' Pooch

[m_power 0]

I was just going to put my german plates on as well, and the ltsa checked some data base and said "i dont know were you got these plates from as they havent been manuafactured by pp" and they sent me out the door.

[bravo 34]

Interesting - do a search on the companies register for personilised plates limited - 50/50 shareholding by some couple in Beachlands?

Edited April 21, 2007 by bravo

[cainchapman 0]

Well, I'll need to check with NZ Customs next week.

But I have just read their list of illegal import items and there are only 2 points which they could stop them on. Trademark and Copyright. Having checked the trademark and copyrights list recognised by them. Personalised Plates are not on either.

On another note, PP don't manufacture the plates (read their FAQ sheets)

https://www40.ssldomain.com/licensys-ebusin...tureRequest.asp

So, can you get your plates remanufactured as a Europlate for $32.50 + courier fee of $9 directly?

[joshnz 2]

Lucky I still have my original nz euro plates, too bad they look like sh*t, I might just order the standard white/black lettered plates - they look better than our NZ ones.

[m_power 0]

Well, I'll need to check with NZ Customs next week.

But I have just read their list of illegal import items and there are only 2 points which they could stop them on. Trademark and Copyright. Having checked the trademark and copyrights list recognised by them. Personalised Plates are not on either.

On another note, PP don't manufacture the plates (read their FAQ sheets)

https://www40.ssldomain.com/licensys-ebusin...tureRequest.asp

So, can you get your plates remanufactured as a Europlate for $32.50 + courier fee of $9 directly?

So can you get a personalised plate manuafacture by them and it will work? or is that just anyother option of getting a cheap euro plate?

[Guest Denny Crane]

So, can you get your plates remanufactured as a Europlate for $32.50 + courier fee of $9 directly?

Thats what I was quoted to get my blue euros upgraded to black ones.

With regards to the plate reading camera - it is why the font was changed - to make it easier for the camera to read.

[cainchapman 0]

No, they won't manufacture a plate unless you own it here in NZ. Hence the form to fill out.

Ours is a personlised plate, and we are the owners of it. But it is an original plate (black on white), so could I get it re-manufactured as a Europlate, was my question. Or in your case, get TI2003 as a Europlate (it is registered to your car).

Rather than pay the extortionate $400 (or whatever PP want) for me to upgrade my existing PP to a PP Europlate.

Yes, the font was changed to be easier to read via camera software.

Ah, Denny (the legal god), you already had a legal Europlate. Quoted by whom?

Edited April 21, 2007 by Cain

[ThreeOneEight 0]

I want one of these instead of Europlates, where do you get them?