Electrical or Head Gasket ???

[JPh 0]

Hi everyone,

I would like to share my story here, because at this stage I just forked out another 2k $ NZ on this car and I have a feeling my mechanic as made an incorrect diagnostic... I just drove home and the car still does not work... worse.

Here is the story.

I bought this car 18 month ago now at a bargain. 160,000km 1996 520i. It had problems with the cooling system. I took it to my mechanic, a very competent highly recommend guy (by friends). He found a head gasket fault, replaced it and 2,500 $ later - I enjoyed a happy 20,000 Km 18 month driving life. So far so good.

A week ago, I put the key in the ignition, the car coughs, looks like it's trying to spark, but no combustion. Not sure and not competent, I get it towed to my magic friend. 2-3 hours later I get a call. It's electrical, no worries we found it, we are doing the 10k service on your car and you can pick up tonight... 650 $ later I am happier and I turn up to pick up the car.

I drive away and suddenly I notice... no fan in the cabin, no heating, no cooling, no blowing, nothing... strange.... probably unrelated / or related (funny) I look at the heating gage of the engine.... it's over heating ! I slow down the gage reading goes up, I accelerate it returns to normal. Weird... Me suddenly worried.

I ring my friend. The car goes back into the workshop.

A while later, I ring to check up on the diagnostic. It may be the thermostat. We are checking and trying to fit a new one. As to the fan blowing thing we think the heater head is dead. You see there is a 320$ set of resistance in there that needs replacing. Ok fine I give my blessing to the new set of resistance... after all it's winter here, I don't need cooling but I need heating.

Day later, I ring again to check on the thermostat diagnostic. Actually nothing wrong with your thermostat ... we think it's the head gasket that's playing up again. Explanation we have found some air in the cooling system, the only way that can happen is if it enters from somewhere hence we are checking the head again... My nightmare is really starting.

My friend goes... look our advice frankly given the age of the car and its mileage... don't spend anymore on this... sell it. You officially own a lemon.

Right. I ask him to give me some time to think. and I will come back with instructions on my decision (repair or not). Suddenly I feel like I need a second opinion... I check car prices on the net and start making scenarios.

Couple of days later, I am decided to take the car out and get another workshop to give me an opinion. I turn up at my friend's workshop and surprise the car lays opened up no gasket.

I started he says with a smile. I figured out you need this repaired anyway right ?

See it's probably the head, I got it out and it's down the road to get machined, I will fit a new gasket set and you should be allright for another 18 month. Or 12, or 6. Actually you really should sell this car anyway because we don't know what's going to be next. Actually you know, it may be the block not the gasket... if it is the block then it is even less worth it because getting it out will cost you a day of labor... then we don't know. Anyway even if it is the block, with a new head and gasket set whatever leak as tiny as it is will get sealed because a fresh gasket is always harder and tighter... aluminium you see...

Now I am really upset / confused and doubtfull. My friend is not my friend and I am getting taken for a ride.

I feel I have no choice but to let him finish now anyway.... otherwise who knows what else... and I have no proof, there is a remote chance that he is telling the truth ... just does not sound right anymore.

Yesterday I picked up the car apparently finished.... Runs great he says with a smile I did a couple of test drives and it is all smooth.

I drive away into the city. 5 K later the heat gage starts swinging again and so does my heart. I drive around town looking for a park and we are firmly in the red my car and I.

I open the bonnet, touch the engine, touch the coolant reservoir... amazingly mild... no heat there. I am not that stupid ... this should be boiling hot.

Nice smell though... something is burning but it's not the engine.

I ring my ex-friend and get a voice mail. What do I do. I am away from home.

Hours later, we are back to cold again. I decide to drive home, confident that the engine is not going to cease on me. Along the way I get the following symptoms. The heat gage going up and down with no rational. Suddenly, I get the ABS sensor light and the Traction control light blinking... a little later it's the whole dial which is blinking... Now I really think this is electrical !!! what more proof do you need !

Then suddenly I loose it all.... no heat no speedometer no petrol no odometer... the whole dial is still lit up but no more readings... I am blind.

The car is still driving... and I park in front of the house, turn off the car. Somehow reassured that I have reached the port safe. I am puzzled by the thought that all along this could have just been computer / and electrics related... after all this was the initial fault / before I got it to the mechanic nothing was ever wrong with the engine itself.... why suddenly ? Law of murphy ? yeah right.

I wait 5 minutes... and try ignition again.... nothing this time. The dial is blinking frantically like in a short circuit fashion. I open the bonnet. Do I need to mention that the engine is cool, the reservoir for the coolant next to the radiator is cool ? no we all know the problem is not here. But that strong smell of burned rubber ? most probably some electric leads melted up somewhere... and what if my ex-friend had left some loose wire in there that touched a hot part and melted ?

Why is it that suddenly I am feeling absolutely no confidence / no trust. Maybe the guy was genuine and he made a genuine mistake - I suppose it happens. I just feel like I got taken for a ride... and 2,000 $ later again the car is still not working...

Thanks for reading my rant.... Feel free to give me your opinion... I really need some expert advice here. If someone can restore my confidence.

I am now looking for a decent & honest electrical workshop in Auckland NZ.

JP

Edited May 9, 2008 by JPh

[bmw.maniac 1]

Bin it.

Write it off as a bad experience.

A '96 520i with 160,000km can only be worth what? $5K?

You could easily spend that much fixing it.

Pull it to bits, and sell the good parts on TM.

[JPh 0]

Bin it.

Write it off as a bad experience.

A '96 520i with 160,000km can only be worth what? $5K?

You could easily spend that much fixing it.

Pull it to bits, and sell the good parts on TM.

A known evil is better than an unknown one.

For 5K I could indeed easily own another problem car.

Surely this is not rocket science.

[Creaver 55]

Where do you live? If in Auckland, perhaps take it to Glenn from Botany Motor Worx (forum sponsor), he will sort you out. He knows his stuff and will definitely not dick you around.

[tire 10]

He said hes in Auckland read the post.

[Creaver 55]

He said hes in Auckland read the post.

Whoops, sorry, tend to skim read .

[Silver Fox 43]

If you're anywhere near Botany, see Glenn at Botany motor works, on Te irirangi behind Shell. He'll see you right, or at least tell you what's wrong.

[bmw.maniac 1]

A known evil is better than an unknown one.

For 5K I could indeed easily own another problem car.

Surely this is not rocket science.

Yes, for $5K you could easily own another problem car, or you could fix an old unreliable BMW that will probably cost you double what it's worth over the rest of its life. Almost everything on e39s are expensive to fix, that car was worth $90,000 new so parts are never going to be cheap.

Oh, and just to satisfy my curiosity, was it imported from Singapore?

[jochen 4]

Sounds like a chaffing wiring loom in the wheel arch / engine bay.

Specifically as you have multiple systems being affect for no apparent logical reason.

Checking all fuses first - and carefully noting which if any fuses have blown - is a key step to diagnosing the problem.

Also, having a copy of the FULL wiring diagram for your vehicle is essential. Luckily, it is all available online here: http://wds.west.lv/release/en/index.htm

Don't even start to repair it if the repairer does not have the full WDS (Wiring Diagram System) and if he is not aware of how to use the WDS. Using the WDS will save a huge amount of time in tracking down the problem.

There are BMW service bulletins that discuss these problems and how to identify and rectify the fault - I remember reading it once. I just tried to find it in TIS but couldn't.

The repair is quite easy as long as the wiring loom is not too badly damaged.

What area of the engine bay did the smell come from?

When repairing it, take it to someone who knows the problems and has the service bulletins describing the fault, and access to the WDS. Otherwise they'll spend way too long looking for the problem without knowing where and what to look for.

ie: only go to a BMW shop

Either Botany Motor Works (Sth Akld) or BM Workshop (central Akld), both these places will have dealt with this problem before and they REALLY know there stuff.

When dealing with a high-tech specialised car like a BMW, don't use a generic local garage. Use the experts. Cheaper because they know their stuff and have seen all problems before.

[JPh 0]

Sounds like a chaffing wiring loom in the wheel arch / engine bay.

Specifically as you have multiple systems being affect for no apparent logical reason.

Checking all fuses first - and carefully noting which if any fuses have blown - is a key step to diagnosing the problem.

Also, having a copy of the FULL wiring diagram for your vehicle is essential. Luckily, it is all available online here: http://wds.west.lv/release/en/index.htm

Don't even start to repair it if the repairer does not have the full WDS (Wiring Diagram System) and if he is not aware of how to use the WDS. Using the WDS will save a huge amount of time in tracking down the problem.

There are BMW service bulletins that discuss these problems and how to identify and rectify the fault - I remember reading it once. I just tried to find it in TIS but couldn't.

The repair is quite easy as long as the wiring loom is not too badly damaged.

What area of the engine bay did the smell come from?

When repairing it, take it to someone who knows the problems and has the service bulletins describing the fault, and access to the WDS. Otherwise they'll spend way too long looking for the problem without knowing where and what to look for.

ie: only go to a BMW shop

Either Botany Motor Works (Sth Akld) or BM Workshop (central Akld), both these places will have dealt with this problem before and they REALLY know there stuff.

When dealing with a high-tech specialised car like a BMW, don't use a generic local garage. Use the experts. Cheaper because they know their stuff and have seen all problems before.

Thanks, that sounds about right.

The smell was from the right hand side of the engine (my guess). But I may be wrong.

Previous mechanic has played around with the fuses... so it sounds like a good idea to start there.

Could that also explain the heating gage behavior ?

What do you suggest I should do with my previous mechanic if future proves that it was nothing but electrical... after all I have a new headgasket for 2K... and I did not really need it...

I rang Glen yesterday and will follow up tomorrow. See what his opinion is when he's had a look at it.

JPh

[Mark 178]

Jochen sounds on the money with regards to this one... I had some crazy things going on with my instrument cluster too, but since I've replaced the battery these issues have gone away.... so also check your battery it could have something to do with it. Good luck.

BTW - It's not a Singapore import is it?

[JPh 0]

Jochen sounds on the money with regards to this one... I had some crazy things going on with my instrument cluster too, but since I've replaced the battery these issues have gone away.... so also check your battery it could have something to do with it. Good luck.

BTW - It's not a Singapore import is it?

No I think Japanese import but I am not sure.

[jochen 4]

Jochen sounds on the money with regards to this one... I had some crazy things going on with my instrument cluster too, but since I've replaced the battery these issues have gone away.... so also check your battery it could have something to do with it. Good luck.

The E39 does not have a rechargable battery in the instrument cluster like the E34 and E36 have.

So your problem due to failled instrument cluster battery is not related in any way whatsoever to the OPs problem.

Edited May 11, 2008 by jochen

[jochen 4]

Thanks, that sounds about right.

The smell was from the right hand side of the engine (my guess). But I may be wrong.

Previous mechanic has played around with the fuses... so it sounds like a good idea to start there.

Could that also explain the heating gage behavior ?

When the chaffing occurs various wires can touch the chassis and cause many unpredictable problems that appear to have no correlation whatsoever.

I recall clearly the service bulltin showed where the wiring loom went along the wheel arch (inside) and over a sharp piece of metal. Here was where the chaffing occured.

To inspect, remove wheel and wheel arch trim to reveal wiring loom.

Inspect carefully for damage. Repair damaged wires and also insulate and protect against further chaffing

But Glenn at Botany Motor Works will know about this.

I have also fixed chaffed wires on the rear parcel tray causing the speaker to short out to chassis, switching on the protection circuits of the radio, causing no radio sound on any speakers. So depending on the units affected, chaffing can have hugely differeing effects.

[jochen 4]

No I think Japanese import but I am not sure.

Easy to determine for sure.

1. Rear numberplate holder: wide euro-size, or narrow kiwi-numberplate size?

Narrow = Jap.

Wide = Singapore/NZ etc

2. Radio display on FM. Goes only to 90 or to 108?

90 = Japan

108 = Singapore, NZ, etc

3. Warning labels in engine bay

In a asian language (chinese, japanese?) = Japan

In English = Singapore, NZ, etc

[JPh 0]

Easy to determine for sure.

1. Rear numberplate holder: wide euro-size, or narrow kiwi-numberplate size?

Narrow = Jap.

Wide = Singapore/NZ etc

2. Radio display on FM. Goes only to 90 or to 108?

90 = Japan

108 = Singapore, NZ, etc

3. Warning labels in engine bay

In a asian language (chinese, japanese?) = Japan

In English = Singapore, NZ, etc

I'll check.

JPh

[Yuen 16]

Sorry to hear about your problems mate, you're right it does sound electrical. I would go back and tell your ex-mechanic to return your money - sounds like he's doing a 'trial and error' method at your expense. He should foot the bill in that case, that's what you're paying a mechanic for at the end of the day isn't it (unless agreed upon prior of course), otherwise you could just go in with no experience and fix it yourself by trial and error. A headgasket job isn't a cheap erratic diagnosis to make...

Hope you get her fixed soon. I think you should ask Glenn @ Botany Motorworx to have a look.

[elmarco 56]

Sorry to hear about your problems mate, you're right it does sound electrical. I would go back and tell your ex-mechanic to return your money - sounds like he's doing a 'trial and error' method at your expense. He should foot the bill in that case, that's what you're paying a mechanic for at the end of the day isn't it (unless agreed upon prior of course), otherwise you could just go in with no experience and fix it yourself by trial and error. A headgasket job isn't a cheap erratic diagnosis to make...

Hope you get her fixed soon. I think you should ask Glenn @ Botany Motorworx to have a look.

Hate to say it, but I reckon you have been stitched too mate. Dunno how much of a leg the mechanic has to stand on if they did the work without your approval to start. Was he MTA approved? I think they have rules that they are supposed to follow for things like that.

It does sound electrical gremlins - good luck sorting it.

[hotwire 352]

What sort of mechanic is this guy - surely it is either overheating or it's not? Not rocket science to confirm the problem being mechanical or electrical.

Sounds like he was having a bob each way on this

[*Glenn* 854]

I have the car here now at my workshop and its not looking good, unfortunately for JPh.

The burning smell was the auto trans cooler pipe cutting through on the power steering pulley ( hoses fitted incorrectly) this blew when the towy was putting it on the transporter.

The electrical (cluster) fault is the alternator not charging and incorrect battery.

I wont discuss anything more at this stage as it is not my position to disclose the other problems.

We have carried out an inspection and provided a report for JPh

I'm sure he will devulge all later, when he decides what to do.

Cheers

Glenn