Politics

[CamB 48]

I actually quite like MMP - we have comparatively centralist governments. I see the advantage in compromise since no party is able to implement sweeping change / controversial policies.

For anyone considering whinging in response to this such as "what about the [insert controversial bill here] bill", (a) they were all storms in a teacup driven by interest groups on both sides and (b ) if the sponsoring party had had a majority they would just be made law at high speed with very little debate, and you should recognise that this would be worse...

Finally "time for a change" is a crappy reason to vote someone out. It should be policy and leadership focused.

Edited May 28, 2008 by CamB

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

Now Ollie has a good point...

What's stopping a Labour/National coalition, too many big egos and wanting to be the biggest fish?

[325_driver 422]

Now Ollie has a good point...

What's stopping a Labour/National coalition, too many big egos and wanting to be the biggest fish?

bring back dictatorship, so that it either goes horribly right, or horribly wrong

but atleast we wont be stuck in mediocrity, and influential uncertainty lol

[Nic325i 0]

Now Ollie has a good point...

What's stopping a Labour/National coalition, too many big egos and wanting to be the biggest fish?

Would only last one term if organised - next time around there would be far fewer votes for either national or labour, and someone else would become a big(gish) fish

[BMW POWER 2]

Haha, political "discussion" - oh yeah.

I wish people were more informed so they could make valid comments instead of simply saying "whoever gives biggest taxcuts" - thats a bit misguided to be honest. Without tax we would be sh*t... sure cut petrol tax... income tax you cant afford to cut a hell of alot.

I think Labour have done an "ok" job.

A LOT of their social policies are absolute bullshit. I see the social welfare has increased etc, providing no incentive to get them off their ass. They gap between unemployment and social benefit (of course I am referrring to those who are plain lazy, not in genuine hardship) could be minimised if they got out and DID SOME WORK.

Not only would it aid our current productivity issues, it would make us more productiviley efficient, with as much unexcused labour being fully employed.

Furthermore, those people who are doing well finanically, and actually work hard for their money, have no finanical incentive, due to them copping the highest tax rates. And yes I know the thresholds have shifted by 4.5k, 10k and 20k respectively, yet for high income earners this has provided minimal releif.

I have read the Budget and 75% of it is excellent. The investment in human capital is truely commendable - $182 million to invest in teachers (better pay.. finally justice for what they do) and $180 million for Police.

The move towards business efficiency and (perhaps, depending on what they do with it) with buying back Toll and spending on broadband. The 162 million is great to strengthen our presence overseas - as seen with the Free Trade Agreement in China... other countries are following suit and (for once) NZ is setting a presedence.

Theres more to mention.... thats just from an Economic point of veiw. Thats why Cullen is good. But hey I'm missing the News..

Edited June 9, 2008 by BMW Power

[jimbo01 0]

Anyone who forgets what National did the last time they were in power is a fool. Im as disappointed as anyone with Labours policies but the alternatives are just unthinkable.

I just dont see National losing this though. Key hasnnt discussed a single National policy but he doesnt have to. Labour just wont stop digging the whole that has already swallowed them.

I honestly have no idea what Im going to do this time. The last one was Labours last chance, but life for me and my family is getting harder and harder and yet I'm paying more and more tax with none of it benefitting me.

And it seems you have a short memory (perhaps too young); don't forget who bought in Rogernomics - Labour!

Cullen seems like a most unlikable peice of work, condesending, sarcastic, very smug - he makes my skin crawl.

Helen's ethic are really low, who leave cops to hang out to dry?, paintergate etc?

The redistribution weath to those who don't earn it, in a way that makes the effective marginal tax rate even higher is a complete dis-incentive to be more productive and earn more. At the same time they worry about deceased productivity - serriously - is there anyone at home? Have more kids?, get more in the way of schooling health etc, and as a bonus have some of someone elses hard earned money.

Apparently labour have visions of a knowledge economy - where? - certainly not here, not with their policies.

The ineffective and inefficent duplication in the health system, health boards, separate IT etc. What a wank - we are a country with a population the size of bloody Melborne - why have we got all this inefective and expensive management? We are a small country down the arse end of the world - we need to be efficient, we need to be smart. This elected health board nonsense is just a facard to make us think we have a say. Get some effective world class management in and sack the lot.

Education - don't get me started - the schools have to raise more and more of their operating budget - and if you are in a higher decile area (where incomes are typically higher and there the tax rape is way higher they fund less, and so this is just even more tax burden.

These dickwacks (labour ) don't like privately run prisons - even if they were doing a better job. Private schools are evil. Well put it this way - Heretaunga Colledge and Upper Hutt Colledge have about 35% sucess in NCEA, whereas Hutt International Boys has abnout 96%, and even St Pats in Silver Stream has about 85%. So is the tax payer getting value from these public schools?. Their results are pathetic.

Bloated public service - too right. My wife works for one of the government departments - they have perfromance appraisals, and all this sort of polically correct shite. And what happend when the stas provie that hard working wife is doing about 2x the work of the next best employee - they reluctantant agree shes exceeded expectations - and give her the same riase as everyone else. Yes we will see increased productivity in such an environment - pretoct the lazy, reward everone equally, for inequal input.

This crap dodn't work for the USSR, it doesn't work for Borth Korea, it bloody well won't work here either.

And isn't ironic that those farmers that the labour government have always treated like crap are basically keeping our country afloat. And all us so called professional selling services to each other are basically doing sweet FA for the economy.

So no - I'm not voting for labour.

[jimbo01 0]

On the tax nonsense.

Lets not forget the fact we pay tax as individuals in a two income home - but if one of you gets made reducndant do you get anything - no way?

A company now onl pays 30% - we the workers have to pay 39%. Apprently if they didn't lower company tax the companies would go overseas. What about the workers faced with higher tax? DO these moron forget that we too can leave, and are leaving. So much for that vision of a knowlede economy!. Turns out with my job I could earn A$30,000 to A$50,000 more a year in Australia. Now I love NZ, but at some point you have to get pragmatic - and Melbourne isn't too bad.

Why do they still tax your kiwi saver contributions - they could have been made contributions tax free.

The reserve bank act and using the interest rates to control inflation - this only works if the inflation is internal demand driven. The inflation we are experencing is mainly extermal generated. Putting up interest rates in NZ only makes the problem worse. And people think Cullen is on to it? This is basic stuff. So now kiwis are loosing their homes, unable to afford the new interest rates. Yep onto it allright.

Why did they allow banks to offer 100% loans - if someone can't afford to save any deposit, at a time when it's way cheaper to rent, how the hell were they goijng to afford a morgage. While you can sey it's people own stupidity, or that the banks are gready (and they are), what about regulation to protect kiwis from their own stupidity or banks greed?

[jimbo01 0]

Winston for PM - WTF????

Never happen, he said that he doesn't want morons voting for him. This may have disucoraged most of his voter base which seemed to be made up of morons and racists (although if they are morons they won't get it -damn!)

[BMW POWER 2]

Jimbo - Are you an economist/businessman of sorts?

Heres a bit on the Education sector seeing as I'm still at high school (public - Otago Girls)

I can understand it from a stduent and with a bit of thinking, economic/managerial point of veiw.

Probably not the fairest comment saying we get shitty returns from public schols - the ones you mentioned are particularly poorly resourced/managed. My school for instance has 87.5% passrates. Comparable to intergrated schools in Otago they are gaining 91% , we missed out on beating Columba, one of NZ's most known academic schools by one scholarship, and bet all other schools in Otago, inlcuding intergrated schools.

You mentioned deciles so obviously you know how they are calculated.

High decile (like my school) = LOW government funding, as they see the socio-economic ratio is high, therfore parents are more likely to have more disposable income (IE, not tied up in struggling to pay for necessities) than low income families and consequently are more willing and able to contribute funds to the operation of their childs school. So, the government contributes less cos they are tight ass mothers of sheepshit.

Low decile = HIGH government funding due to exactly the opposite of what I said for high decile funding.

As a result of level of funding, this determines quality and quantity of resources available for schools.

For example, computers. I'm doing a Statistics exam at the moment. The school has four computer labs, two very high-tech ones and two not so good ones (due to funding). We have to book these rooms to use them. Often they are booked for other people, hence decreasing our practice time on computers and therefore less time to learn how to do things. This shows in grades attained - under-resourcing of public high schools lead to not-as-good marks.

Whereas you look at private schools. Almost fully funded by parents. This pays for MANY excellent resources. Therefore learning is more accessable and easier to do. With parents pouring in this amount of money, they expect excellent marks, so that is what the school strives for. These parents most likely got great marks themselves, so push for that. So the only thing these private school kids know is high marks is what is expected. Nothing less.

This is why quite often in frustration I say "Bloody under-resourced public school!!".

Investing in schools in investment in human capital. If Helen put more money into Education, she would find that youth crime would decrease, productivity and therefore productive efficiency would increase due to better knowledge etc etc.

Teachers are blerry invaluble resources - no one has any idea how much they put in for such little pay. The good ones can define a teenagers future - thats something you can't put a monetray value on.

I can't wait till I get to work for Ministry of Education - hopefully thinss will change goddammit.

Jimbo - interest rates can effect cost push inflation (supply side).

Rent/mortgages are a cost of production for companies right, and so the interest they pay on these mortgages is a cost. If the OCR increases, interest rates increase, mortgage repayments rise, so cost of production rises, quantity supply decreases or prices increase to compensate.

I laugh at Economic assumptions sometimes - "assuming consumers are rational"

a) Don't ever ssume... you make an ass of u and me.

b )Consumers = Rational?

Helen Clark -rational What a joke!

+1 For Rogernomics by the way - great initiative by Mr Douglas!

Edited June 11, 2008 by BMW Power

[Five Star 0]

Gotta love that stupidly high pass rate due to NCEA.

That school which gave out NCEA credits for picking up rubbish?

NCEA is a joke, it better be changed asap...

[Jeddy 0]

+1 For Rogernomics by the way - great initiative by Mr Douglas!

However there's no way i'm voting for act.

In theory his ideas are good in reality he's cuckoo and his plans will never fly.

I think applause is due on your argument above tho.

Gotta love that stupidly high pass rate due to NCEA.

You think they should bring back scaling with 50% pass so by the end of NCEA or equivalent at max 12% of students will be left?

NCEA is not perfect but it's a work in progress.

All these people feeling so bitter about Labour...I can't help to think that although there's going to be a change in govt i doubt little will change under a new govt.

[325_driver 422]

Gotta love that stupidly high pass rate due to NCEA.

That school which gave out NCEA credits for picking up rubbish?

NCEA is a joke, it better be changed asap...

NCEA is a load of sh*t, not that i actually give a crap about my school marks cause im doing fine with out how i achieved in school, but speaking on the behalf of some of the initial guinea pigs for ncea, me and 5 other class mates were sitting at the top 5 in the class for chemistry physics and calculus before ncea, with grade averages over 90, now dont get me wrong, i can see what they are trying to do with ncea, but that marking schedule is BULL sh*t !

After the introduction of the new marking and grading system, all of our grade averages dropped to 60 even as low as 40, We all wanted to know why. Got our papers marked by a few independent examiners out of curiousity, to have the same paper that scored NA remarked, and scoring Acheived, MERIT, and even EXCELLENCE ! Taking this further because it just didnt make sense that papers could get marked, and then get marked by other people scoring tremendous varied results, and nothing seemed to be constant. Taking this paper to a independant professor i know, who looked over our papers, saying that with the new NCEA marking system, there was LE-WAY for a marker to be prejudice on how an answer is worded to an extent to mark it right or wrong depending on how theyre feeling, and with he marking system, if some questions are marked wrong a paper scoring excellence can score as low as Achieved and some times Fail. E.g. all of our papers had 90 % of the questions answered correctly, but because of the marking system fell back to achieved, or even fail.

This is an interesting thought, and was going to take it further, Because to be honest im worried in general for the next generation of people going through ncea system, that are getting unfairly marked, the marks they should have got, or even an accurate level of what their marks are !

[topcat 11]

So many opinions/ideas/takes of our current situation and all have truth to them

I have seen/heard a lot of things that make me shudder.but what are we going to do about it?

I too am in bussiness,probably the most uncurtain market of all-local and export veges.

every time any Goverment makes a change to our climate,be it finacial or political,i hold my breath.

I dont have kids,but the crap that gets taught at school these days,i wouldnt want them there.

the health system-dnt bother,get good insurance and spent the $50 odd a year for a physical,atleast you have an idea whats happening.

As for taxs,i see both sides of the fence,as it were,but i dont see a reason or way tax can go down, in the long term,as long as this nations goverments run/treat this country as a charity and not a bussines.

especialy the last 9 yrs or so.the budget for social spending and the goverments own opporational (mp wages,admin,perks that i can only dream of,advisory costs,leflets telling us who to vote for and how awesome where doing, etc) cost seem to double every 5 years or so.stange as the population has not doubled.Also this current goverement seem quite keen to be the first in alot of areas of interest,

anti smacking,climate change,dont get me started,free trade with a leading communist country etc.What worries me is are we getting any results?Do we really need to lead the world in everything?I do know our country is the place where alot of things are 'tested',eftpos,micosoft products,cut of subsidies,womans vote-better stop there lol

I guess things are better in Aussi,folks there are proud of who they are and how far they have come, and that additude will carry them alot further then that of their poor in spirit cousins

We do live in a nappy state and we all 'roll over' as it were.maybe the folks in france have it right, shut the country down till the people change the minds of the powers above them-i dont know.

Lots of questions and no real answers

what i do know is this-

1.the many support the few 2.and the people get the goverment they deserve

edit; Wow what a disjointed piece of writing,wonder how NCEA would mark this??

guess it boils down to this=

1. we earn the money

2.they spend our money

3.in practice they,the goverment,works for us.

4.what are you going to do about it,share holder?? better stop writing,they maybe reading this

Edited June 11, 2008 by topcat

[325_driver 422]

So many opinions/ideas/takes of our current situation and all have truth to them

I have seen/heard a lot of things that make me shudder.but what are we going to do about it?

I too am in bussiness,probably the most uncurtain market of all-local and export veges.

every time any Goverment makes a change to our climate,be it finacial or political,i hold my breath.

I dont have kids,but the crap that gets taught at school these days,i wouldnt want them there.

the health system-dnt bother,get good insurance and spent the $50 odd a year for a physical,atleast you have an idea whats happening.

As for taxs,i see both sides of the fence,as it were,but i dont see a reason or way tax can go down, in the long term,as long as this nations goverments run/treat this country as a charity and not a bussines.

especialy the last 9 yrs or so.the budget for social spending and the goverments own opporational (mp wages,admin,perks that i can only dream of,advisory costs,leflets telling us who to vote for and how awesome where doing, etc) cost seem to double every 5 years or so.stange as the population has not doubled.Also this current goverement seem quite keen to be the first in alot of areas of interest,

anti smacking,climate change,dont get me started,free trade with a leading communist country etc.What worries me is are we getting any results?Do we really need to lead the world in everything?I do know our country is the place where alot of things are 'tested',eftpos,micosoft products,cut of subsidies,womans vote-better stop there lol

I guess things are better in Aussi,folks there are proud of who they are and how far they have come, and that additude will carry them alot further then that of their poor in spirit cousins

We do live in a nappy state and we all 'roll over' as it were.maybe the folks in france have it right, shut the country down till the people change the minds of the powers above them-i dont know.

Lots of questions and no real answers

what i do know is this-

1.the many support the few 2.and the people get the goverment they deserve

edit; Wow what a disjointed piece of writing,wonder how NCEA would mark this??

guess it boils down to this=

1. we earn the money

2.they spend our money

3.in practice they,the goverment,works for us.

4.what are you going to do about it,share holder?? better stop writing,they maybe reading this

The lord has spoken, true that too, if i had kids, they wouldnt be getting raised in this country, not cause its bad, but just not my piece if fish.

out

[jimbo01 0]

Jimbo - Are you an economist/businessman of sorts?

I work in IT as an Enterprise Architect

My wife works for the good old Ministry of Education (and you would not beleive the stories she comes home with). In the past few years she has works for IRD, Internal Affairs, Dairy Board>Fontera>EDS, Ministry of Education so I've got relaible 2nd hand knowledge of how Govt departments work verses priviate companies.

You make interesting points.

My point on the decile system and funding is that it is effectively taxing those with high disposable incomes again - so not only is the government taking moeny in the form of tax and redistributing it to lower income familys as "working for families", it's then providing less funding to the higher decile schools, so the parents with all this disposbale income are forced to pay more (this is just a hidden tax).

There are good public schools - and very few of them are in income challenged areas, depsite the better funding those areas receive. So it's not working. A lot of the achivement of the kids in the higher decile schoos is that culterally the familys are more focuded on sucess and achievement, there tend to be better family role modles.

The Upper Hutt schools have been the victem of yet more gross mismanagement - no capital expenditure for about 5 years as the government thought they could move 3000 students into the old CIT campus and form a super school. I know teachers who work there - it's not very nice! They have now canned this idea. Of course the CIT, a perfectly good facility, with a train station across the road, heaps of parking sits decaying with the Government spending 80 million of so trying to make the facilites in Petone of a similar standard.

[BMW POWER 2]

My wife works for the MoE

Really - if you don't mind me asking what does she do there? I'm interested in working for the MoE when I want to shift from teaching to something else.

My point on the decile system and funding is that it is effectively taxing those with high disposable incomes again - so not only is the government taking moeny in the form of tax and redistributing it to lower income familys as "working for families", it's then providing less funding to the higher decile schools, so the parents with all this disposbale income are forced to pay more (this is just a hidden tax).

That is a really good point - so so very true! Complete and utter dis-incentive to be in a higher income bracket/family. The distribution of incomes in New Zealand is grossly unfair.

There are good public schools - and very few of them are in income challenged areas, depsite the better funding those areas receive. So it's not working. A lot of the achivement of the kids in the higher decile schoos is that culterally the familys are more focuded on sucess and achievement, there tend to be better family role modles.

Woop yeah like OG's

Exactly my point. Perhaps this extra funding for low decile schools is to provide them with resources they need in order to overcome that motivation aspect that lacks in some family situations..cut off the vicious cycle.

The Upper Hutt schools have been the victem of yet more gross mismanagement - no capital expenditure for about 5 years as the government thought they could move 3000 students into the old CIT campus and form a super school. I know teachers who work there - it's not very nice! They have now canned this idea. Of course the CIT, a perfectly good facility, with a train station across the road, heaps of parking sits decaying with the Government spending 80 million of so trying to make the facilites in Petone of a similar standard.

That is outrageous. Why don't they spend x amount of dollras inasessing that complex and determine its suitability for a school rather than leaving it to deteriorate? What the HELL is going on with that...

[ThreeOneEight 0]

I work in IT as an Enterprise Architect

Can I just tell you off for that job title! I'm an architecture student and we're sick of our esteemed(we hope!) and hard fought future profession being used with gay abandon in IT job titles. Technically, it's illegal to use the word 'architect' if you are not registered with the NZIA- I realise you don't invent the names, it's the work of those god-awful women who seem to proliferate in recruitment agencies but yea- get your own word! You can't very well call yourself an Enterprise Doctor or a Justice of Logistic Management(I hope no one in recruitment is reading this, I can just see those being used in the jobs section next week).

Haha, that rant aside, my mum is a reading recovery teacher. She reckons they are outnumbered 2-1 by ministry officials, who do nothing but get a lot of catering. Seems every second person you bump into in Wellington works in government. Not sure if this is the case in capital cities worldwide, but the job titles you see advertised for Public Service roles get more and more trivial, and more often than not they are listed as 'newly created roles'. Obviously there's a bit of excess going on here. Maybe Roger Douglas is onto something. I reckon if Canberra want our public servants, they can have them!

[Avenged.SSE 0]

Welll... I work part time for a government department, and I would just like to add in a few things, I don't think this dole bludger problem is as big as most people conceive it to be, sure there are people out there on the dole who should be working, is it likely that such people will be productive if you force them... probably not, is the dole viable at all ($10-15k per year says no, I earn more than this as a university student - so clearly they're not as big of a burden on the system as say - smokers, or bad drivers).

Everyone complains, for various reasons. Some, like myself are never happy and always want more, which is accompanied by always complaining about not having enough, others - many others, that I deal with everyday think that complaining will equate to getting what they want - irrational really. There's an obvious reason why the higher income brackets are taxed more and it's all to do with equity. If you want to assess how good a country is, look at the difference between the rich and the poor. Obviously.. Bigger the gap, the worse a country's overall status is.

Taxes ARE important. If you want to live in a sh*t hole which has streets brimming with rubbish, non-existent parks, beat down neighborhoods, and no support for those who really need it, then there are many other countries that fit this criteria, I thank God that NZ can provide us with all these things that we take for granted. Just remember that the taxes you're paying are not going into the pockets of some despot - they're partly contributing to how good this country is - and trust me, it's good - I've seen what other places are like!

One point worth mentioning is that secondary employment is actually taxed more than primary employment, I think this should be changed, as there's no real incentive to get more work! On the other hand, a lot of government help is based on how much you work, hence incentive to do more work. For example, working for families tax credits entitles you to an extra $60 if you work for 20+ hours a week which = incentive.

Regarding redundancy payments (Which I remember skimming as I read the topic - there is a redundancy rebate, which might interest you!). MMP = good, even though I do agree that some parties = stupidity personified, it is still more REPRESENTATIVE, which = good, representation of all groups in society is supplementary to democracy.

Just one final point to reiterate that people often take what they have for granted. I laugh at anyone who considers any of the NZs governments tyrannical, it only reflects your cultural insensitivity, once you've lived somewhere else - ruled by a dictator, then you'll begin to value how good NZ is.

[Avenged.SSE 0]

Can I just tell you off for that job title! I'm an architecture student and we're sick of our esteemed(we hope!) and hard fought future profession being used with gay abandon in IT job titles. Technically, it's illegal to use the word 'architect' if you are not registered with the NZIA- I realise you don't invent the names, it's the work of those god-awful women who seem to proliferate in recruitment agencies but yea- get your own word! You can't very well call yourself an Enterprise Doctor or a Justice of Logistic Management(I hope no one in recruitment is reading this, I can just see those being used in the jobs section next week).

Haha, that rant aside, my mum is a reading recovery teacher. She reckons they are outnumbered 2-1 by ministry officials, who do nothing but get a lot of catering. Seems every second person you bump into in Wellington works in government. Not sure if this is the case in capital cities worldwide, but the job titles you see advertised for Public Service roles get more and more trivial, and more often than not they are listed as 'newly created roles'. Obviously there's a bit of excess going on here. Maybe Roger Douglas is onto something. I reckon if Canberra want our public servants, they can have them!

Lol @ enterprise doctor!