SIR E30 68 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 Ok so I'm a complete n00b when it comes to HID lights. All I know is that I want that bluey/white colour in my headlights! So I'm really hoping someone will be able to help me out here. What is the difference between HID and normal bulbs? Why is it bad to run HID bulbs in normal headlights? What does it take to convert normal headlights to HID headlights? Ive seen the HID conversion kits on trademe, is that all you need? Will these kits work with the normal headlight lenses? Are the trademe kits any good? Aside from the different colour do HIDs have any advantage on normal bulbs? Is it really worth doing the conversion? Oh, these are for a facelift E30 if that makes any difference. Thanks people! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmarco 56 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 Ok so I'm a complete n00b when it comes to HID lights. All I know is that I want that bluey/white colour in my headlights! So I'm really hoping someone will be able to help me out here. What is the difference between HID and normal bulbs? Why is it bad to run HID bulbs in normal headlights? What does it take to convert normal headlights to HID headlights? Ive seen the HID conversion kits on trademe, is that all you need? Will these kits work with the normal headlight lenses? Are the trademe kits any good? Aside from the different colour do HIDs have any advantage on normal bulbs? Is it really worth doing the conversion? Oh, these are for a facelift E30 if that makes any difference. Thanks people! Hot topic.... Why does everyone want their headlamps to look like HID??? There have been plenty of discussions on this already - HID conversion kits are not legal in NZ. HID (also called xenon, GDL, discharge lighting) uses an arc between 2 high voltage electrodes to generate the light. The arc itself is the same idea as an arc welder and needs a special ballast to run. Normal halogen lamps use a tungsten filament which is heated by electric current producing light. HID produces a very intense output (much more so than halogen) and is commonly viewed as 'whiter' than halogen. You can buy halogen bulbs that are whiter in colour (sometimes called cool blue) - but make sure they have an "E" mark. You need to have an entire lamp specifically designed to use HID. You cannot simply replace a bulb with an HID burner - it is illegal, dangerous and irresponsible. The reflector and lens are designed to control the light pattern and rely on a very specific filament position - which is completely different between filament bulbs and the arc position of HID burners. The legal requirements for HID also require self levelling of the lamps and a washer system in order not to blind other drivers. http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/vehicles/...ghts-right.html If you must convert to HID, use a fully legal module from Hella - but be prepared as they are pricey. There is a reason that HID is an optional extra - $$$$. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 HID is HID,xenon is a variation of a "normal" halogen bulb.The halogen bulbs are sold in various shades of blue to try to emulate tha hid look/colour.True HID systems have very very high light output,hence why incorrect fittings can cause problems for other road users Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuen 16 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 Ok so I'm a complete n00b when it comes to HID lights. All I know is that I want that bluey/white colour in my headlights! So I'm really hoping someone will be able to help me out here. The blue/purple tinge from HID headlights come from the cutoff of HID projectors. That's why if you see a car with HIDs coming towards you, you occasionally get a flicker of blue/purple when the cutoff hits your eyes. The rest of the light is white - if you take a HID bulb by itself it puts out pure white light. OEM light temperature (measured in Kelvin) is around 4300K. In an attempt to imitate the blue/purple flicker, aftermarket HID kits come with bulbs of higher colour temperatures ie: 8000K, 10000K, 12000K. The driver ends up seeing the road in blue or purple and this easily causes fatigue. If you drive a car with factory HIDs (~4300K), it's easier on your eyes than halogen because 4300K is close to the colour temperature of sunlight. What is the difference between HID and normal bulbs? What elmarco said. Why is it bad to run HID bulbs in normal headlights? Normal (halogen) bulbs come in different bases (H1, H3, H7 etc) to HID bulbs (D2S, D2R...). So you actually can't put a HID bulb into a halogen headlight, and vice versa. However HID 'kits' have made that possible, by putting HID bulbs on to halogen bases. Rebased kits are aftermarket - and not 'proper'. Hella, Osram, Philips do not do rebased kits. It's bad to run HID bulbs in normal headlights because the headlights were not designed for them. They were designed for halogen which puts out much less light (measured in lumens). Drive a car with factory HIDs and you'll see that the light is spread very evenly, while halogen has more light in the more important areas. I suspect because halogen has lower output, the lights are designed to put more light where it matters... while HID puts out so much more light that it can afford to distribute the light evenly, and at the same time it is important that no stray light is cast in the direction of oncoming traffic - it results in much more glare than halogen. If you see say, an E46 with a HID kit in its reflector headlights, you'll see two very bright beams that almost look like cannons on the road in the line of the headlights, and not much elsewhere. That's not how it's supposed to be, even if some think it looks cool. What does it take to convert normal headlights to HID headlights? You can't convert a halogen headlight to a HID headlight. You need to change the whole headlight. Technically, you only need to change the projector or reflector. But in NZ I believe you may need headlamp washers and autolevelling (check the legislation). Unfortunately I don't think anyone made proper HID headlights for the E30. Hella makes one for the E36. Ive seen the HID conversion kits on trademe, is that all you need? Yes, technically that is all you need to get the output of HIDs in your halogen headlights. But remember it isn't going to be distributed properly. Will these kits work with the normal headlight lenses? Yes they will, because they use rebased bulbs. Are the trademe kits any good? All HID kits are aftermarket. They will never be as good as factory HIDs. The bulb may not sit properly in your headlight due to the rebasing, which will affect the beam. I have my doubts about their quality control. Aside from the different colour do HIDs have any advantage on normal bulbs? Yes. HIDs put out way more light than normal halogen bulbs, last longer, and use less power (factory HIDs are usually 35w). A disadvantage - they cannot be used for 'flashing' as they will die quickly. Is it really worth doing the conversion? Depends on each individual. You will definitely get more light. But are you willing to do it at the expense of other road users? Glare can blind other drivers which can cause accidents. People are happy with kits because they see more, but most don't think about the people coming the other way. Oh, these are for a facelift E30 if that makes any difference. Member 'driftit' mentioned in the other thread that certain E30 headlamps are better for HID kits than others. Some halogen headlamps will have a better beam pattern than others. But one thing is for sure... a HID headlamp will always have a better beam pattern than a halogen one because it was designed for HIDs from the start. HID is HID,xenon is a variation of a "normal" halogen bulb.The halogen bulbs are sold in various shades of blue to try to emulate tha hid look/colour.True HID systems have very very high light output,hence why incorrect fittings can cause problems for other road users Technically you're right Paul... after all xenon is just the gas. But 'HID' and 'xenon' are usually used interchangeably. I think the halogen bulbs filled with xenon came out after HIDs made it on to the market? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moktar 7 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 HID may not be legal here in nz but just go for a drive at night and look at how many cars have them installed. My bro has a piece of s**t mitsi mirage and he installed HID in low and high beams and fogs and passes warrents at ANY VTNZ with no problems. If your e30 has projectors itll be fine. As nike say Just do it. its my mission for next week 3x HID kits on the way as we speak! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SIR E30 68 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks everyone, I understand now! Ive come to the conclusion that I wont be having HIDs! Ive tried the bulbs with filaments that claim to be the same as HID. They were CRAP, yes they had a whitey blue colour but they put out absolutely no light, they were useless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex 693 Report post Posted August 5, 2008 They are becoming quite common as standard fitment so yes there are more and more out there. Just because a retro fitted car passes a WOF doesn’t make it legal, I have seen cars pass WOF’s with cut springs and illegal tints, doesn’t make it legal. IMO anyone who retrofits them to a non compliant enclosure is a selfish wanker. My main reason for hating them is due to my missus being blinded and nearly run off the road one morning on our way through Maraetai. I suppose as long as they look cool though eh. I converted my old IS200 to HID using IS300 enclosures and washers and it set me back over 2k using second hand parts so I would hate to think what it is worth in new parts! I can recommend Philips Cristal vision bulbs as a safe substitute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 They are becoming quite common as standard fitment so yes there are more and more out there. Just because a retro fitted car passes a WOF doesn’t make it legal, I have seen cars pass WOF’s with cut springs and illegal tints, doesn’t make it legal. IMO anyone who retrofits them to a non compliant enclosure is a selfish wanker. My main reason for hating them is due to my missus being blinded and nearly run off the road one morning on our way through Maraetai. I suppose as long as they look cool though eh. I converted my old IS200 to HID using IS300 enclosures and washers and it set me back over 2k using second hand parts so I would hate to think what it is worth in new parts! I can recommend Philips Cristal vision bulbs as a safe substitute. yes i have recently fitted new philips Plus 30 definetly a whiter light and a bit brigghter/ better visibilty too.The new bulbs have a slight blue tinge but the light looks white..no hint of blue/purple when looking at the headlights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
camera doctor 25 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 IMO anyone who retrofits them to a non compliant enclosure is a selfish wanker. +1 While we are on that, I hate those who drive with their foglights on all the time too! Blinds other drivers. The LTSA website clearly says they can only be used in bad weather, and when NOT to blind other road users. Can't understand why they changed the rules re the wiring - I can remember having spots on my old RX2 in the eighties, and having to wire them to dip with the cars dip switch. Rant over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 +1 While we are on that, I hate those who drive with their foglights on all the time too! Blinds other drivers. The LTSA website clearly says they can only be used in bad weather, and when NOT to blind other road users. Can't understand why they changed the rules re the wiring - I can remember having spots on my old RX2 in the eighties, and having to wire them to dip with the cars dip switch. Rant over proper FOG lights WONT blind you,they are a dipped spread beam,unlike the so called fog lights on Falcons and commodes.....actually driving lights i think Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle 1662 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 proper FOG lights WONT blind you,they are a dipped spread beam,unlike the so called fog lights on Falcons and commodes.....actually driving lights i think Yeah ive never been blinded by any BMW fogs or other euros, always been some bloody jap, rav4's come to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moktar 7 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 Fog lights on standard day or night! unless one has blowen like i found out today Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apex 693 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 The E30 ones are actually quite bright, well compared to the Driving lights on the E60. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmarco 56 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 HID is HID,xenon is a variation of a "normal" halogen bulb.The halogen bulbs are sold in various shades of blue to try to emulate tha hid look/colour.True HID systems have very very high light output,hence why incorrect fittings can cause problems for other road users Xenon is actually the brand name that Hella give their HID lamp kits - which is why I lumped it in with the others.... +1 While we are on that, I hate those who drive with their foglights on all the time too! Blinds other drivers. The LTSA website clearly says they can only be used in bad weather, and when NOT to blind other road users. Can't understand why they changed the rules re the wiring - I can remember having spots on my old RX2 in the eighties, and having to wire them to dip with the cars dip switch. Rant over Yeah - that REALLY bugs me too. proper FOG lights WONT blind you,they are a dipped spread beam,unlike the so called fog lights on Falcons and commodes.....actually driving lights i think They can't be driving lights as they would only work on high beam (unless modified of course...). You are only allowed one set of low beams, 2x sets of high beams and 1 set of front fogs. As they are on with low beams (well the ones I've seen anyway) I have to assume they are front fogs (without having seen the E marks on them - this will always tell their type approved function). Daytime running lights are different again but have to switch off when the headlamps are switched on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hotwire 352 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 +1 While we are on that, I hate those who drive with their foglights on all the time too! Blinds other drivers. The LTSA website clearly says they can only be used in bad weather, and when NOT to blind other road users. Can't understand why they changed the rules re the wiring - I can remember having spots on my old RX2 in the eighties, and having to wire them to dip with the cars dip switch. Rant over +2 Fog lights. As already stated - when set CORRECTLY they will NOT dazzle oncoming vehicles. They are a permanantly dipped light casting a flat horizontal beam & when set correctly the glare ouput on a beamsetter is no higher than dip headlight beam. Problems arise when WOF's don't check setting properly or inconsiderate people fit driving/spot beams in these spoiler holes where they are an uncontrolled light output. In all my years in the trade I have seen several fog light rule changes. Early eighties - when fog lights came on you had to lose all other headlights (dip included) but retain park lights. Then after 87 & the mass flood of Jap imports fitted with factory fogs & operating independently of headlights - saw the powers that be change the rules to allow these cars to comply. However when retrofitting fog lights - the old rule still applied. Nowdays a vehicle can have a pair of fog lights independently switchable, along with dip beam headlights & 4 high beam lights (this can be 2 factory H/B & two driving/spot) + 2 daytime running lights if desired Their ruling does state fogs to be used only in adverse conditions - very grey area I reacon - what defines the cutoff for judgment of adverse conditions? Love to challenge that in court:- Surely the more light visable the better (assuming non dazzling) - more concentration should be aimed at consistant enforcement of lamp types & correct setting of in the WOF inspections Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiwi535 538 Report post Posted August 6, 2008 Xenon is actually the brand name that Hella give their HID lamp kits - which is why I lumped it in with the others.... Yeah - that REALLY bugs me too. They can't be driving lights as they would only work on high beam (unless modified of course...). You are only allowed one set of low beams, 2x sets of high beams and 1 set of front fogs. As they are on with low beams (well the ones I've seen anyway) I have to assume they are front fogs (without having seen the E marks on them - this will always tell their type approved function). Daytime running lights are different again but have to switch off when the headlamps are switched on. you are right,but commodores ,falcons esp have very bright and glary (sp?) "fog lights",then there are the 4wd with mid grill bar mounted yellow fog (read driving lights),just about rear vision mirror height it seems Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
