clutch in your e36 not great? long and heavy?

[edhardley 0]

Iv'e done a fair few mods on my e36, but have always found the manual gearbox and clutch lag behind whats under the bonnet. Anyway I knew to check there was no CDV (clutch delay valve), which for some reason bmw decided to include on some models, causing slow and jerky gear changes- also adding wear to the clutch, good for novice drivers, but not for anyone looking for quick gearchanges- if you don't no about this do some research, your manual skills may be better than your bimmer shows, some people claim there car felt totaly different, and the hold in acceleration through gear changes unbelievable... this mod costs you nothing, you just have to find the CDV and unbolt it, this is more a problem on m3's and e46's as opposed to e36 though its worth looking into.

After checking there was no CDV, the second step was to get a shortshifter, compared to my mates sub-standard jap cars, the throw on the e36 was still almost twice aslong. Now instead of throwing my whole arm to make a simple gearchange, it can almost be done with a flick of the wrist. (don't spend $100's of dollars, the one I got from trademe for $80 is perfect- its a piece of metal with a shorter pivot length at the bottom... no need for some piece of gold with a brandname under that gearknob.) But whats the point of having a fast gearknob movement, when the bimmer clutches are stupidly long and slow...

Now to the main point, and what got me doing this write-up... A CLUTCH STOPPER. If you have a manual e36 or find the same problem Im about to describe in your bimmer, get one. The clutch in the e36 is incrediably long, if you havn't realised this you probaly havn't driven another decent or the matter any other manual car before. For some reason BMW went backwards and made the push almost twice aslong as that in the e30. There is nothing wrong with the standard clutch, infact they are quite good, and similar to aftermarket performace parts in feel (well on 328's and m3's atleast). The reason for this unnessary push-in of the clutch to change gear, is the fact that the clutch goes well beyond engagement before bieng stopped by an almost non-existant clutch stop. So after reading about other people saying this is the best performance upgrade ever for there e36 (I did'nt believe them at the time either), I decided to fabricate a longer clutch stop. It does the same job, same if not better quality(metal not plastic), the only difference is it about five times the length, reducing the pushing and releasing of the clutch by half, and therefore halving the time it takes to change gears... seriously. Go for a drive and see how short you can push the clutch in to change gear, then you'll realise how the clutch assembly is poorley designed, with uneesary range of motion and why gearchanges arn't to quick.

If you didn't know, a clutch stop in the piece of rubber (in the shape of a coin) that screws in right up and behind where the clutch is pushed, to stop you hitting the floor-boards/ carpet. You should be easily able to find it and unscrew it in seconds. You coud make a larger clutch stop yourself or buy one off ebay for about $20 US, but then add shipping and exchange rate- it's not cheap, I'd still say worth it tho.

I seriously believe this is the best performance uprade I've ever done( value for money it's impossible to beat), the car seems totaly different to drive, it may seem riduculous how something so small can make such a difference, but on a manual car you can not overlook the importance of quick gearchanges, with even slightly laged (and uneccessary) gearchanges not only do you loose that time where the car is for all intensive purposesses in neutral, but because you've given a few more split-seconds for the engine reves to drop, the perfect transition between gears is lost, and rather than been thrown back in your seat, you are left feeling your car is unsatsfying.

Anway don't mean to go on, but after having done this myself, after all the other major mods I've done (like the manifold swop people seem to rant over alot here and so on) I realised theres little point in getting slight increases in power and spending lots of hard earn't dollars if all is then lost on a not quite perfect gearchange. For the best part of $10 I couldn't think of a better upgrade... (you don't have to have a shortshifter or CDV removal to notice the differecnce) If you have a little bit of skill and time its not hard to make one your-self, but whilst doing mine a made a few extras, because it seemed silly making only one for all the effort of making and finding the right parts, so if your interested pm or email me and I can hook you up for not much more than the cost of a big-mac.

cheers,

Ed

[steve R 0]

Welcom,

Have you got any more info on your car? pictures? mods done? dyno sheets? would be interested to see

[Greg111 13]

The CDV is only on evo E36s and e46s, highly doubt your 328 had one. I'm guessing the clutch stopper doesn't let the clutch come back up so high? Mines basically ingaged about 10mm off the floor but as the clutch wears you would need to remove the stopper to get the most out of the clutch before replacement...right?

[edhardley 0]

Hey there, yea you're right, in general e36's dont have them, but there are a few esspicialy 97 onwards that you may find have them, these cars also require the clutch to be depressed when starting, not sure why these changes were made, its prety easy to tell, you'll feel like the clutch is kinda slipping, and particulary the gear change from 1st to second is notorious for not bieng smooth, its not hard to jack of the front wheels and have a look. The clutch stop won't have aything to do with how far the clutch comes back out, its totaly seperate and tuked up behind the clutch pedal. All cars will have a clutch stop of some sort, just to stop the clutch hitting the floor if people do push it right in. The bottom line is, if when your driving you find your pushing the clutch further in than nessasry to change gear(i.e. engaged), you could definatly benifit by having a longer clutch stop. People have done it on m3's too, not sure bout urs but i don't see why the clutch pedal would be any different from other e36's (ofcourse the clutch itself and so on is). I've driven some jap cars before so when I drive the bimmer(which I do like alot more tho) i found the clutch incredibaly long and heavy, heavy because the futher you puch it the harder it is to compress, and long because the clutch stop in short. Anyway I seriosuly found a huge difference in gearchanges after installing it, they are literaly twice as quick and it feels great not having to extend my whole leg to get the clutch in(slight exageration).

[edhardley 0]

Hey man, yea I'm just getting use to the site, I'll try take some picks, I've got it looking just the way I want it so ill post up some picks sometime soon. Apart from all the basic upgrades, like wheels, clutch, suspension and so on, I've had the m50 manifold and throttle body converion, CIA simota (taking air from bottom air-vent, would definatly recommend this mod, can explain in detail why over others), Exhaust(straight through pipe muffler, without resonators), and in the process of m3 cams and remap, at which point I will stop hopefully (possibly LSD to come), otherwise you miteaswell by the m3 except for insurane purposes after a right off haha. There are lots of mods out there, but from experience and other peoples experience these are the ones to go for if your looking for max power gains, and suprisingly cheaper than other mods, such as headers and exhaust that don't yield the results those 'accurate' dynos may show. After I completed this stuff I'll definatly get some dynos to show for it, but at the end of the day you gotta drive it and compare to the same car stock ey.

cheers

[Greg111 13]

I like having a heavier clutch pedal, feels more controlable than than a sloppy one.

[edhardley 0]

No I agree any good clutch will be heavy, the clutch in a porshe track car or similar is extremely heavy and obviously purosefuly so, but it is also short, to allow for quick gear changes. A clutch stop won't change the 'feel' of the clutch interms of weight ans so on at all, as described it's totaly seperate, but because it eliminates the uneccassary push past engagement (that is heavy and therfore requires time and effort to compress) it is much quicker. Anyway its the cheapest mod I've seen and it takes 30 seconds to change, I personaly will be leaving mine in and loving the smooth and fast throws.

[steve R 0]

Im guessing you sourced the cams from a US M3? i would be very interested to see the results of all your mods as i doubt many other people in New Zealand have gone to the same level.

[edhardley 0]

Yup thats rights, the US m3's have alot more incommon with the m52 engine, every now and then they pop up on ebay, ur looking round $800.00 nz shipped if you get a good deal, and instillation is fairly straight fowrd, easier than the manifold I had done which requires some fabrication or finding of various bits and pieces. Yes i'll definatly get some dynos when i get a remap, want to wait till i finished everything, even without it tho the car is noticeable faster witht he mods so far, it is true with the manifold you loose some low end torque but the gain and endless pulling at upper reves outdoes the loss, sounds nice too, and people ask well how often do you drive past 3000rpm, me personaly... enough to notice (and I'm guessing so do most people looking through the performance section of this website). I've done a few personal tests (hard to explain) but proves my car has a noticably faster 0-100 time than when stock. Anyway I'll send you through some pics of the car later. cheers

[Greg111 13]

Well i might be interested in one of these clutch stops then, can always just try it out if they're cheap enough, what kind of simota setup do you run?

[edhardley 0]

Yea there not to hard to make up one yourself if you pm me I can send one to you, if you don't like it just send it back, its also adjustable, because its a screw fit you screw it in exactly how far you want it ( you can go for a drive and adjust it to how it best suits) and then a small bolt secures it at that position. \

Its got the best simota filtercone available, which is connected to the throtle body hose via a custom silicon tube that takes the filter below and behind the passenger head light, I then cut a flap in the brake air intake pipe at the bottom of the body kit and direct straight cold air right to the centre of the cone. The silicon pipe never gets hot unlike alot of metal ones people use, (which do a perfect job og heating up the air as it comes through haha), and not only is it far away from the hot engine, and getting direct air to it, as it is sitting near the ground there is an abundance of cold(or coldest air available anyway), as 3rd form physics teaches you, hot air rises(cold/ dense air falls), so for all those people with pod filters at the top of the engine bay, I would consider putting in the old concealed BMW airbox.

[Greg111 13]

Yeah ok I wouldn't mind trying one out, post some pics of the engine bay up, the kit sounds nice!

[edhardley 0]

Yea it's the best in my opinion, I'll take some and post em up but because of the setup you wont see much just the pipe leading to the bottom of the car haha. I got it from an American website that makes custom kits for e36's, it was about $300 nz from memory, but with the exchange rate a bit dearer now, ill find the website and post it up. I didn't notice a huge difference by itslef, but definatly lets through more air when you need, espicialy when your doing mods that require the extra intake to get those topend hp's (the standard airbox has its limits), the sound is beautiful, and kicks in at higher reves which is nice.

[Izako 0]

I drive a '98 6-sp M3 (4-dr made in S Africa) and the clutch feels very hard and also engages by just wriggling your toes! I don't have a clutch stopper but can the clutch be adjusted to come out a bit further before engage? There is also too much play on the shift when in gear or neutral; Does it mean new clutch/shift or could the links just be worn. Last question: Why does the Vanos system rattle when cars been driven hard?

Cheers

[Greg111 13]

I drive a '98 6-sp M3 (4-dr made in S Africa) and the clutch feels very hard and also engages by just wriggling your toes! I don't have a clutch stopper but can the clutch be adjusted to come out a bit further before engage? There is also too much play on the shift when in gear or neutral; Does it mean new clutch/shift or could the links just be worn. Last question: Why does the Vanos system rattle when cars been driven hard?

Cheers

Clutch is run on a hydrolic system so unable for adjustment, if you mean too much play on the gear shifter itself, this is how they seem to be, mines the same, when in gear it still moves freely.

You might want to get the Vanos issue checked out with someone professional in your area, sounds like it might be a faulty unit? Better to get an opinion by a BMW technician.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Greg.

[edhardley 0]

Heres some pics of the clutch stopper dissconected, and one with the new one installed. The longer one is obviously the new clutch stopper.

[edhardley 0]

Welcom,

Have you got any more info on your car? pictures? mods done? dyno sheets? would be interested to see

Here are some pics of the car, and engine bay for you. Ill put a couple others up showing the CIA

[edhardley 0]

Yeah ok I wouldn't mind trying one out, post some pics of the engine bay up, the kit sounds nice!

Heres some pics of the CIA, can't see much (the whole idea its tuked away at the bottom behind that air intake), you can see in the pic of that air intake on the body,kit, how a flap is cut and held down diverting air to the filter, have to look hard. Also included some interior pics for that other guy interested.

[greenday-rulz21 6]

Car looks great mate.

You coming to the Anniversary Cruise tomorrow?

[edhardley 0]

Cheers man, yea got her looking prety tidy. Yea may do, just have to check with my mate who introduced me to this forum.

[Greg111 13]

Car looks good, the induction setups great, well done.

Now that i've seen the clutch stopper i can understand where it sits, if my clutch isn't pressed to the floor it often won't go into gear hence this may make it difficult?

[edhardley 0]

thanks for that. Yea, if thats right then this may not work in your case, although I'd be surprised if it only engages when almost hitting the floor, because you can adjust the hieght, any distance shortened improves pedal speed and therefore gear changes. Anway you could chnage them round within 30seconds, depress the clutch and see if you are able to change gear, if so great, if not nothings lost...

cheers

[Greg111 13]

thanks for that. Yea, if thats right then this may not work in your case, although I'd be surprised if it only engages when almost hitting the floor, because you can adjust the hieght, any distance shortened improves pedal speed and therefore gear changes. Anway you could chnage them round within 30seconds, depress the clutch and see if you are able to change gear, if so great, if not nothings lost...

cheers

Well that's true, i could always try one out.

[3 SERIES 93]

Interesting plate you have there!

[edhardley 0]

Yea cheers, I've been pulled up for them once, so usually resort to the plain german ones haha, but they look nice on a dark car.