Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 27, 2009 Alrighty so In my m20 e30, with a getrag 240 running a single mass e30 flywheel I have a "startermotor destroying" issue. So far since I traded my old singlemass flywheel to a guy that works at BMW dealer round here (straight swapped my standard flywheel for his lightened (he couldn't use in e30 race series)), My originally 6 month or so old "rebuilt" startermotor crapped out within not even a couple weeks of trying to start my car for the first time. Got a replacement last week, and again it has now claimed it's second victom. Both starters cranked Really loud and graunchy. Both ended up in grinding and free spinning. The old one is in much worse shape as it is wobbly etc, this replacement isn't too bad but has now developed the same sort of issue and will crank roughly, stop crank , stop etc. So what I need to know is: Are there different startermotors for singlemass e30 flywheels ?? What different ones are there, how do I know I have the right one if there is I don't wanna have to replace starters every week!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hotwire 352 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 M20 starters all the same. The earlier model - bigger Bosch unit & later (facelift car) Bosch reduction drive (smaller unit) - both interchange either way. Neither will have adverse effects either way. I think from memory I supplied you with a starter quite a while ago via TM - hope this is not the one that has failed - if it was - I would be most surprised if it did. Sounds like you may have an alighnment issue of some sort Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
323e30 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 hate to say it but i think your going to have to drop the box again and take a second look. first thing to try is to manually crank the engine , listen for grinding rubbing and feel how stiff it is, Generally its not that hard to manually crank a sweet motor so if your struggling to get it to move ild say you have a jam somewhere. Flywheel hitting something etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boost Junky 1 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 Im pretty damn sure there are more than one type of starter for the E30 M20... I ran into this problem where the starter gear wasnt meshing properly with the flywheel, this was due to there being something like 7 teeth on the gear where the others had 6 or 8 or so cant remember from the top of my head now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
323e30 0 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 Im pretty damn sure there are more than one type of starter for the E30 M20... I ran into this problem where the starter gear wasnt meshing properly with the flywheel, this was due to there being something like 7 teeth on the gear where the others had 6 or 8 or so cant remember from the top of my head now. M50 engines use different sizes for manual or auto, M20 use the same throughout im pretty sure, except older ones have a larger sized casing but teeth are same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boost Junky 1 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) M50 engines use different sizes for manual or auto, M20 use the same throughout im pretty sure, except older ones have a larger sized casing but teeth are same Im using M20 flywheel though... so maybe i had a couple of auto ones and a couple of manual ones or a mix of m20 and m50 i dunno? Edited July 27, 2009 by Boost Junky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 27, 2009 M20 starters all the same. The earlier model - bigger Bosch unit & later (facelift car) Bosch reduction drive (smaller unit) - both interchange either way. Neither will have adverse effects either way. I think from memory I supplied you with a starter quite a while ago via TM - hope this is not the one that has failed - if it was - I would be most surprised if it did. Sounds like you may have an alighnment issue of some sort yeah it actually was, made me mad because that was a perfectly fine one you sold me as "rebuilt" and it was awesome , cranked very strong and good. With this it seemed to have killed it. And the one I got from 323e30 too. Gearbox is out. No sign of any rub anywhere or anything, shim is on the bolt side, between bolts and flywheel. Will re-torque the flywheel tomorrow anyways. Not sure what else would be the issue here though? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c.robertson00 11 Report post Posted July 27, 2009 Maybe it would be an idea to put a standard flywheel back in to see if that fixes the problem. I had a similar problem on my race car and it turned out to be the starter solinoid, but i doubt that would be the case in your situation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 I pulled the clutch etc out, flywheel was bolted on tight as.. I pulled it off to count teeth and its got 137 , I think.. lol. hard to count so many teeth.. No idea what the issue could be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 Anyone able to count their flywheel teeth for me ? here is what mine looks like (was taken a couple months back when I first got it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hotwire 352 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 M50 engines use different sizes for manual or auto, M20 use the same throughout im pretty sure, except older ones have a larger sized casing but teeth are same Yes - M20's starters definitely interchange - early to late & vice versa. Same teeth etc, just that the late unit is a reduction drive & hense smaller housing. Also manual/auto - the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 Yeah I put the flywheel back in just before and the clutch, loctited all of the bolts etc. Gearbox will go back on tomorrow just roughly I wanna see if the starter will catch on properlly and hopefully it's not buggered. I put the starter teeth up to the flywheel teeth and they seem to mesh nicely so not sure what the issue was, maybe slight mis-alignment some how.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 So what is buggered on the starter? The teeth? Someone who can should count the teeth on the flywheel - its not impossible that you might have an M10 one (they have less teeth). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamez 2147483647 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 i got a m10 in the garage, i'll count the teeth when i got nothing to do in the afternoon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 I do as well, so will look this evening. A quick google suggests 138 teeth for M20 and 112 for M10, so doesn't sound like that's the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 I do as well, so will look this evening. A quick google suggests 138 teeth for M20 and 112 for M10, so doesn't sound like that's the problem. On the first starter, the teeth were sort of worn away and that gear and shaft it's on was wobbly as. Second one seems fine, just abit of wear on the teeth. Thats why I think maybe a slight mis-alignment.. I put the gearbox back in this morning before I went to course, I will put the starter on and see what happens when I get home. Also go to pickup the final piece to my build later on, the wastegate which is plumbed into the exhaust. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c.robertson00 11 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 I might have a spare starter if your still after one? $40 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 I'll see how I go later, mine looks fine but yeah. Won't know til I test it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*Glenn* 854 Report post Posted July 28, 2009 Have you checked to make sure you havent got a faulty ignition switch and the switch keeps the starter engaged all the time while the engine is running.. I've had that occur several times. You might not hear it if the car is noisey. If it stays in mesh, it'll get destroyed. The ratio means engine 2000rpm = 30,000 starter rpm with no lubrication Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 28, 2009 How would I check that Glenn? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*Glenn* 854 Report post Posted July 29, 2009 How would I check that Glenn? Use a test light on the starter and check if you have voltage at the trigger wire on the solenoid when it is still running Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tire 10 Report post Posted August 9, 2009 How did you sort this in the end man? I'm having a similar issue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datkiwi 11 Report post Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) Towards the end of e30 production there was a significant change to the ring gear tooth profile ............ WE HAVE BOTH TYPES! ............ Different countries got the upgrade at different times but generally around 1988-89. Also many cars have since been fitted the wrong replacement starters. (cheap aftermarket starters are generally late model version) Using the wrong starter causes a lot of very harsh noise, excessive tooth wear and eventual stripping of the ring gear teeth. There is only one way to tell the difference and that is to count the teeth. Early version FW has 137t Late version FW has 116t. This change is only relevant to the starter!!... ALL other fitment and clutch details are exactly the same, so please choose the correct one Edited July 1, 2019 by Datkiwi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
