Egypt + John key

[Docile 64]

For all those that suspected National are not so hot on democracy, this morning Key issued proof by publicly announcing his support for Egyptian dictator Mubarak on Breakfast. Stumbling and seemingly unable to pronounce the Iranian President Ahmadinejad's name, Key went on to discuss how important freedom and democracy were in New Zealand, a sentiment he clearly does not extend to other countries.

The journalism in New Zealand has been nothing short of appalling, which is perhaps one reason why Key seems so confused (once again) on international politics. Call me a news snob, but I really don't care how Frank Bunce felt or, in what has to be one of the worst stories of all time, Anne Penketh's completely devoid of context piece on how frightened she was trying to get to the hotel. At least it's not as bad as the standard of journalism where - if this slide is to be believed - Fox News appear to have renamed Iraq as Egypt on the world map.

One sign that Key is seriously off the mark in his comments on Egypt is that even US politicians are speaking more delicately than him. Obama's administration has pledged their support for Mubarak, but stated that he needs to deal with the protesters democratically. Key is right that the Egyptian protests will upset Israel, but has made no mention of the oppressive dictatorship that has characterized Egyptian politics for the last 30 years. In Key's mind, he would rather they stayed that way.

Kragen Sitaker summarizes the issues that have led Egyptian youth to the streets well in the piece below:

Why Egypt's popular rebellion is the most important historical event in a decade, and how Obama missed the boat

For readers who don’t know much about Egypt, like most Americans, here’s my attempt to sum up a country of 80 million people in three minutes.

Egypt is not a republic, any more than the People’s Republic of China is. Egypt is a brutal dictatorship, governed by the same dictator since 1981, 29 of those years under state-of-emergency regulations. That dictator, Hosni Mubarak, was the vice-president of the previous dictator, Anwar Sadat, who in turn was the vice-president of the dictator before him, Gamal Abdel Nasser, who had held absolute power since 1956. Egypt has been under one-party rule since 1952, and although the ruling party has changed its name several times, it has never yielded its power.

Egypt has gradually declined in influence and quality of life throughout Mubarak’s reign.

The protesters are by and large not violent; this is a myth being propagated by western media coverage. They were led by young people inspired by the events in Tunisia. As the photo that begins this post demonstrates, one of the forms of resistance that is repeatedly coming out in photos from the region is that protesters have been kissing riot police. In the face of a strong Government response that has included shutting down Twitter, Facebook, cellphones, kicking out Al Jazeera, and reportedly cutting landlines soon, the struggle continues. These are ordinary people on the streets; the protest is not being led by the Muslim brotherhood as some news sources are insinuating. Sure some protesters have taken up stones, but eyewitness accounts converge in saying that this is a later development in response to the American tear gas that has been repeatedly fired at them. With at least 100 dead, thousands injured and reports coming out of tortured corpses being dropped on the street by those suspected to be Government, Mubarak could do the people of his country a massive reduction in violence by kissing his undemocratic rule goodbye. Instead he has deployed F16 fighter jets, a move that our Prime Minister clearly supports.

Soumaya Ghannoushi writes a great piece for Al Jazeera on why such complete misconceptions on the region circulate so widely, called The Propagation of Neo-Orientalism, a piece that references influential cultural studies scholar Edward Said's most influential work. Ghannoushi points to some frightening impacts that these heavily spun news reports are having on people's general knowledge (most notably, only 9% of BBC and ITN viewers knew that when the phrase 'occupied territories' was used it referred to the Israelis as occupier, most thought that the Palestinians were extending their settlements into Israeli territory).

The spin in the US media is currently that the protesters are violent and undemocratic, as covered by Phillip Weiss in this piece. Obama is avoiding using the 'D' word (and I mean democracy) as the US begins to worry about what the impact of having movements towards Arab democracy will mean to their arms exports.

While Key's idiocy might pay tribute to his lack of knowledge on North African politics, one has to wonder if he gets any foreign policy advice before he shoots his mouth off. The reason why even Hillary Clinton is cagey is that the current events in this region threaten the current power balance of the US's economic interests in this region.

The US has been pretty keen to support dictatorships in this region in the past, despite their loud cries of bringing democracy and freedom to the Arab world. One thing that looks certain if Mubarak goes (and he is likely to) is that the country will sever their economic ties with the US, who currently supply all the weapons that are being used on the people of his nation. The US also curiously just committed to a US$50 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia despite it being the home of Wahhabism. Such deals might be increasingly under the scrutiny of the populous, which is hardly a bad thing in the face of countries that disguise their lucrative arms trades under the guise of pretty public relations. The revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia which have prompted demonstrations in Yemen, Lebanon and Algeria show the significance of this movement. The fact that they are being fueled by the release of the Palestine Papers on Al Jazeera and The Guardian that reveal Palestinians weak in the face of Israeli and US pressure signals a potential shift in the geopolitics in the region. If Obama and Clinton can recognize this, why can't Key?

UPDATE: US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has now said that she expects democratic elections will come out of the uprising for Egypt. So why does Key support Mubarak and say that the protesters are causing unrest?

from:http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2011/01/breaking-news-john-key-supports.html

Edited February 4, 2011 by Docile

[briancol 3]

Spoken like a true Labour supporter, so why are you bringing politics into a car forum?

[$toffz 0]

Your link doesn't work for me? page can not be found.

I would like to read more on exactly what Key had said, anyone got a link to the original?

[*Glenn* 855]

Bimmersport is a dictatorship as well ... it's privately owned. If this thread turns to sh*t it will be deleted.

[Docile 64]

Spoken like a true Labour supporter, so why are you bringing politics into a car forum?

that's why its in the off topic section

quite good to know what is going on around the world. you dont have to read it.

Your link doesn't work for me? page can not be found.

I would like to read more on exactly what Key had said, anyone got a link to the original?

link works for me.. i just clicked it. probably blocked by work net?

[Grant 4]

Spoken like a true Labour supporter, so why are you bringing politics into a car forum?

Brian, this is an off topic section of the forum, which would in itself lend this area to discuss exactly this type of topic.

I also think that providing people can contribute with respect of others, then this could be interesting.

The off topic is useful for more than just recycled jokes.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Grant

[kingkarl 136]

So you're taking a left wing opinion story and presenting it as fact. Solid foundation for a debate.

You think Phil can do you a better job? Haha, let's see where that gets us.

And you're realising only now the (NZ) media is full of sh*t?

Far Goff.

[Grant 4]

So you're taking a left wing opinion story and presenting it as fact. Solid foundation for a debate.

You think Phil can do you a better job? Haha, let's see where that gets us.

And you're realising only now the (NZ) media is full of sh*t?

Far Goff.

And here's the problem if anyone dares start a thread about a serious topic, you get idiotic uneducated responses like this.

Karl, you seem like a bright guy, try acting like it, and not a smart assed idiot.

[nath 134]

I feel that while Key may e a little strong sounding with his support, I would need to be more educated on the background of this uprising and Egypt's place on the world stage to comment properly.

What I do think is that much like In Afghanistan etc, the revolt is not so much against the leadership as it is a deliberate attempt to create general unrest for whatever reason and facilitate a newer equally brutal leadership by a group lurking in the shadows.

[tcbaurpower 5]

I really couldnt care where Frank Bunce is or why near forgotten sports players keep getting to comment on such news. Also why do they search around for a new zealanders point of view on local issues??? Idiots they dont need to travel halfway across the world to do that.

However on the story itself.... I find it interesting to see the unfolding events of people over throwing a system that to them isnt all they expected it would be. As for a democratic new zealander to judge their government, it is pointless. They are bigger and can do as they please.. which I guess they arent, more power to the people!!

On the subject of key... Anyone else wondering when we will get a great leader that will actually change New Zealand not just one of these place holders on party strings. I predict never, at least we can vote in a new one in less than 30 years.

[kingkarl 136]

And here's the problem if anyone dares start a thread about a serious topic, you get idiotic uneducated responses like this.

Karl, you seem like a bright guy, try acting like it, and not a smart assed idiot.

Grant I'm not pretending to know anything about the situation in Egypt.

My gripe is having a blog article seemingly presented as the truth. If there's going to be a debate, can we base it around solid journalism?

I didn't see breakfast this morning and have no idea what John key said, and in what context it was in. Anyone have a link to the interview? Because until we see it, this article has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[$toffz 0]

The conversation on breakfast as such, just the part people are focusing on;

'Key: The New Zealand Government wants a peaceful outcome to this. In the end, whoever governs your country is a matter for the citizens. And in the case of Mubarak he’s been there for a long time, 30-odd years. We respect the fact that he has done his very best to lead a country which has recognised Israel and, therefore, has wanted to make sure the position in Middle East has been a peaceful one. It’s not easy, it’s very complex, and there’s a lot of emotion.

Dann: Are you calling for him to go?

Key: No

Dann: I guess the concern is the Muslim Brotherhood. The potential for an Islamist movement to come in and fill that vacuum. Is that the concern?

Key: Well, the concern is that there are some nations that simply do not recognise Israel. And, taken to the extreme, in Iran Ahmadinejad has said he basically wants to see Israel wiped off the face of the Earth. So, it’s a very serious situation. Egypt’s provided stability and leadership and calmness. Obviously, the hope always being that that position would spread across the Middle East, that it would be possible to broker a two-state solution, with recognition of Palestine as well but this certainly looks like it’s taking things, potentially, in the wrong direction.'

While I'm sure some read that as support of Mubarak, Key seems to be taking a more pragmatic approach to the entire region rather than just Egypt.

Still as Key supporter i would have preferred to hear something about Mubarak being replaced with an democratically elected Head of State/President/What ever who would look to champion the average Egyptian, rather than some group just waiting to slot in immediately, similar to what Nath was saying.

I havent heard of any interim person/group who cold run things while a President was democratically elected?

The current vice?

[tcbaurpower 5]

I havent heard of any interim person/group who cold run things while a President was democratically elected?

The current vice?

The current president has said he will stay on until voting has taken place and will not run for office again. The protestors didntt seem pleased with this.

[kingkarl 136]

'Key: The New Zealand Government wants a peaceful outcome to this. In the end, whoever governs your country is a matter for the citizens. And in the case of Mubarak he’s been there for a long time, 30-odd years. We respect the fact that he has done his very best to lead a country which has recognised Israel and, therefore, has wanted to make sure the position in Middle East has been a peaceful one. It’s not easy, it’s very complex, and there’s a lot of emotion.

Dann: Are you calling for him to go?

Key: No

Hardly sounds like Key's in support of Mubarak to me.

[$toffz 0]

So if Mubarak was removed right now, who and what would take his place? and how can we be sure that who ever replaces him is actually what Egypt wants?

[Grant 4]

Hardly sounds like Key's in support of Mubarak to me.

That's the impression I got as well.

[deane30 30]

That's the impression I got as well.

+2

[Nobimmer 694]

OT as hell, and CBF reading the article.

But had a BBQ with John Key. Was a real GC.

Have nothing else to offer.

[twisted 45]

Hardly sounds like Key's in support of Mubarak to me.

Correct. The quoted Blog Post was written by Martyn 'Bomber' Bradbury who as one of the staunchest left wing bloggers around will take any opportunity at all to discredit the John Key lead National Government.

Usually however (as in this case) All his posts do is serve to highlight how f**kin lame his spin is on any given situation.

His politics are questionable at best.