E39 540i - cut out after start, turns over but wont start!

[tangalife 1]

Hi team,

Had a problem this morning. Started the car up, but 10 seconds later it dropped revs and then cut out. It wouldn't start after that, I would turn the key and it would just keep turning over and not fire up.

I've had the car about 6 months now, ever since i've had it I would get a rough/lumpy/shaky idle for the first few mins of driving. So i'd pull up to traffic lights and it would do it, but eventually go away (almost like its warmed up). Usually worse on colder mornings.

The prev owner said he had done the CCV/CVV and also replaced spark plugs, so that could maybe rule them out the spark plugs still? Maybe I should check the plugs anyway. What about coils???

I also cleaned the MAF and ICV earlier in the year trying to solve my idle problem so those should be sweet.

Edited August 25, 2013 by tangalife

[M5V8 337]

get it scanned and start there.

[tangalife 1]

get it scanned and start there.

How much are these or does anyone know someone mobile?

[Phil-540i 166]

I think I've fallen for Darren's 'signature picture'............like its kinda weird but kooool at all sorts of levels........cracks me up every-time I see it.......

[yng_750 247]

where in the country are you.

all bmw workshops and dealers can scan.

if not then most euro friendly workshops usually have a scan tool

if not then some auto sparkys might,

i had a similar failure on my 740i

was the cam position sensor.

I manually tested sensors until i found that but only because i couldn't get to a scanner, would have been much faster that way

[M5V8 337]

I think I've fallen for Darren's 'signature picture'............like its kinda weird but kooool at all sorts of levels........cracks me up every-time I see it.......

he he he....

as far as scans go, any BMW dealer can do for around $60 last time i checked.

or find someone with a scanner local to you. where abouts are you?

[tangalife 1]

he he he....

as far as scans go, any BMW dealer can do for around $60 last time i checked.

or find someone with a scanner local to you. where abouts are you?

The trouble is just getting the car to a shop/scanner. Car is in Browns Bay (North Shore) at the moment.

Sorry when I ment how much are they, as in buying one and doing it myself??? Unless its complicated/expensive, ill stay away from that lol.

[hybrid 1043]

Give Ray at HellBM a call. 0212hellbm

[yng_750 247]

you can buy a scanner.

Peake seem to make a good one. (beware cheap ones on trademe, most wont work with an e39 and even if they do they dont read all the data)

Peake version will cost around $350 out of the US.

proper shop scanners that cost thousands will always do a better job IMO

[tangalife 1]

Would love after seeing a video of using a peake reader, $350 pretty pricey and yeah dont seem easily available over here. Mind you probably has some re-sale value if I ever just want to flick it off.

After a bit of internet research it does sound like it could be faulty CPS, but TBH there are alot of other potential things this could be

Edited August 26, 2013 by tangalife

[yng_750 247]

mine was the sensor on the left hand hand head looking at the engine from front to rear, just behind the MAF

take top cover off and you can trace the lead back to the wiring loom above the injectors and unplug it there.

if you unplug it there should be three wires.

test resistance between two ( i believe it is the two end wires) you should get a reading of between 500- 600 ohms on a multi meter. im not sure what wires they are so try all three combinations, should have that 500-600 on one and either 0 or infinite on the other two.

it unbolts from the block with one allen head bolt.

all the help i can give, as thats what mine did, so if your bored maybe try that should be same procedure for crank sensor.

could be heaps of things but mine did the same thing, started chugged stopped and that was it. i got a used one from brent for about $80 if i recall but that was a while ago i could be wrong. put it in and started first pop.

[Allanw 1071]

You should be able to use BMW Scanner to easily check the codes.

I use Version 1.4.0, X-car 360, but I have the later 16 pin OBD2 connector. You'd need to buy the adapter as well. Looking today, it's US$32 shipped, plus you'll need the adapter. or you can use the earlier 1.3.6 version, which comes with the adapter (less features though, I think).

It's easier to set up than the proper BMW software, and does all the basic stuff, plus allows programming of features etc.

There was some guy on trademe selling them for about NZ$120!

Certainly easy for reading faults, you can read individual modules, or the whole lot at once, plus reset them.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Allanw

[tangalife 1]

You should be able to use BMW Scanner to easily check the codes.

I use Version 1.4.0, X-car 360, but I have the later 16 pin OBD2 connector. You'd need to buy the adapter as well. Looking today, it's US$32 shipped, plus you'll need the adapter. or you can use the earlier 1.3.6 version, which comes with the adapter (less features though, I think).

It's easier to set up than the proper BMW software, and does all the basic stuff, plus allows programming of features etc.

There was some guy on trademe selling them for about NZ$120!

Certainly easy for reading faults, you can read individual modules, or the whole lot at once, plus reset them.

Might for that seeing how cheap it is, is the software easy to install/navigate (i.e plug in and gives you the code easily enough)?

What about something like this, $125 off trademe

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-...n-628985204.htm

[gadgetman 0]

Might for that seeing how cheap it is, is the software easy to install/navigate (i.e plug in and gives you the code easily enough)?

What about something like this, $125 off trademe

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-...n-628985204.htm

I'm in Browns Bay and have a scanner for the e39 5 series, with both OBDC connectors.

PM me if you want a hand.

[tangalife 1]

Thanks to Richard (Gadgetguy) who came around today to chuck his scanner on.

Came up with a few results, but then we found the battery was flat (noticed when I was trying to start it back up yesterday the cranking was running out of juice so was half expecting a flat or flat-ish battery). So the results are inconclusive or untrustworthy as this stage. Hoping that with a charge, the car will at least start so I can take it for a proper diagnosis.

The results we did get, were problems with the o2 sensors but again, perhaos untrustworthy at this stage perhaps.

[M5V8 337]

you legend Richard.

02 sensor failure wouldn't cause your issues as described. Complete failure of the 02 sensor system puts the car into limp mode. If the 02 sensor was reading wrong it could make the car run badly.

You really need to clear the codes, charge the battery, take for a drive until it does it again & then check the codes that came up.

depending on when you last cleared the codes they could have been in there for ages!

If 02 comes up again, check which bank. Swap the sensors clear the codes and go again. if the opp code then comes up you have confirmed the issue.

diagnosing issues like this it pays to have your own scanner, or at least access to one. it will save you $ in the long run.

Edited August 27, 2013 by M5V8

[tangalife 1]

you legend Richard.

02 sensor failure wouldn't cause your issues as described. Complete failure of the 02 sensor system puts the car into limp mode. If the 02 sensor was reading wrong it could make the car run badly.

You really need to clear the codes, charge the battery, take for a drive until it does it again & then check the codes that came up.

depending on when you last cleared the codes they could have been in there for ages!

If 02 comes up again, check which bank. Swap the sensors clear the codes and go again. if the opp code then comes up you have confirmed the issue.

diagnosing issues like this it pays to have your own scanner, or at least access to one. it will save you $ in the long run.

Yeah think ill get my own one, seem like a good investment (as discussed with Rich today).

Battery on charge now. Fingers crossed she starts tommorow.

[tangalife 1]

Charged the battery, problem still there, wont start. Still no CEL light. Looks like the Service Light is on the last orange bar and INSPECTION shows up but figure it would still start with those on.

While I wait for a scanner tool, looks like I will need to take some time to check the obvious things first, spark, fuel, etc

Anyway, here is a video I took last night of it trying to start.

[M5V8 337]

scanner tool def will help. Sounds like it's just not firing.... no spark, low or no fuel pressure

but yeah, basic's time. Fuel , spark......

start with the easy stuff ...

[yng_750 247]

if its something like a CPS it wont spark as it doesnt know the engine is moving, be careful with coils, if you run them with no ground or no plug in them they can fry.

i believe you can sit your head under the car behind the left wheel and click ignition to the on position you should be able to hear the fuel pump hum for a few seconds.

not sure about this though?

have a sniff of the exhaust after its been cranking, if no spark you should smell fuel.

[tangalife 1]

if its something like a CPS it wont spark as it doesnt know the engine is moving, be careful with coils, if you run them with no ground or no plug in them they can fry.

i believe you can sit your head under the car behind the left wheel and click ignition to the on position you should be able to hear the fuel pump hum for a few seconds.

not sure about this though?

have a sniff of the exhaust after its been cranking, if no spark you should smell fuel.

yeah I was trying to listen for the fuel pump last night, there are all kinds of buzzes so I assumed it was it (I went to the boot to listen too). I assume you mean left rear wheel, so I will give that ago.

Funny you say about fuel, last night when I tried to start it again, I could smell fuel clearly from inside and outside the car.

Last thing to add before I start some testing (when I get some time, at work this whole week hence me on the forum trying to solve it lol) - is i cant see ANY lights on my battery's sight glass making me wonder if its stuffed which could explain the dead battery's and maybe the hard time starting? Although that still wouldnt explain the rough idling and it shouldnt have cut out after initially starting on Monday morning?

[yng_750 247]

the "light" is a hydrometer which measures acid density.

they work roughly but only test one cell and even then arent accurate.

once its going get a proper battery test at supercheap or similar

[Etwenty1 45]

i believe you can sit your head under the car behind the left wheel and click ignition to the on position you should be able to hear the fuel pump hum for a few seconds.

not sure about this though?

have a sniff of the exhaust after its been cranking, if no spark you should smell fuel.

Good basic test but i've had 2 cars where the pump would liven up, hum and dispense fuel breifly (enough to pass the sniff test) but would not run for long or maintain the required pressure. To fully rule out fuel you need to check pressure and flow, at the rail and the FPR which unless you have a high pressure gauge and some nous (not saying i have any ) its best checked by a professional.

My E34 540 i would start fine from cold then start coughing as it warmed up and would not start again. There was fuel in the cylinders but i changed the pump on a gut feel and that was it. A hint was both filters were very blocked.

[yng_750 247]

its worth have a poke around to get an idea of whats happening but might as well wait for code reader

[tangalife 1]

Let's just hope that I dont have a 1000 diff codes sitting there already as they've probably not been cleared for dont know how long (Ive had the car about 7 months now).

If I did, theoretically could I clear them, and when I go to start the car again and it fails it should then give me the code I need to see for my starting problem?