E65 745i

[michhod 26]

E65 745i seem to be outstanding value for the amount of car you get these days, any opinions as to why that might be...

egg sample...http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-740946684.htm

My mate who has driven older S series Mercs is keen on the E65 due to value, and asked me my thoughts, I said to be honest I wasn't sure but understood people aren't keen on them due to being a very complex (electronically) machine..thoughts and opinions please. thanks

[yng_750 247]

Same old story. Good car but high maintanence. Scares off most buyers so drops price.

First of model means more issues.

Nothing to different from a s class.

[hotwire 352]

They are great bang for buck now BUT - potentially a can of worms too. It is nearly 15 yrs old now - hence the pricing.

They are a very complex car, & as such - plenty to go wrong & things often do. The purchase price is one thing, maintaining the car is another & with these - needs to be factored in.

I have seen this so many times at work where a car like this has been purchased using all available funds, then something goes wrong & they can't afford the fix.

There was one purchased recently by Clinton on here for about 1/2 the amount of this one too - that was real outstanding value. He will probably chime in soon

[Cheyne 17]

7 series have always been cheaper on the used market than the equivalent 5 series (V12s excepted). The e65 shape seems to be suffering much more rapid depreciation than previous editions. This probably stems from the fact that they weren't originally popular when new, the last of the e38s were selling for a premium as people avoided the e65 initially. Then you add in the reputation for the temperamental nature of the early e65s (electrical problems, gearbox failures, clunky iDrive etc) which has carried over onto the used market.

Having said that, if you know what you are looking at and are willing to put up with the maintenance costs (after all you're still maintaining a $200k car) then the e65s are a screaming bargain. Although the one in the OP is overpriced at $13k for a 2002, you should be closer to $10k. Personally I'd be looking at 2004+ as they seem to better sorted or hold out for one of the 2001/2 models that pop up occasionally for sub $10k.

[rowans17 19]

I recommend you buy one Michael so you can sell me your 6speed 540

[deeveus 81]

He will probably chime in soon

DING DONG...

My advice if you're keen on one and paying top dollar; get it checked out and stay away from imports, especially Singapore imports and I mean avoid them like a fanny full of cold snow, advise given to me by a guy I went to school with who's a BMW franchise mechanic. Also don't bother with a 735i they're cheaper but a lot less power and use an UN-noticeable amount of fuel less..

I paid half that price for mine, NZ New with virtually every option. I'm more than pleased with it, in-fact I wished I'd had one years ago, it is the MOST comfortable car I've ever been in and the heated massaging seats are farkin brilliant, it will happily burble about all day very quietly and comfortably and when you're feeling a bit bogan it really does get off it's ass when you give it the jandal, mine has the optional EDC and sport mode. I'm yet to have an issue with mine, but with most cars you can sorta tell whether or not it's been looked after & mine having a full dealership history ticked that box. I guess I'm just lucky so far, but at 6k if it goes bang I'll just throw it away, probably get a few grand back if I parted it. Don't get me wrong, I took a huge gamble on mine, it had no WOF, an airbag issue a front bumper that looked as if it had been dragged 100km down a gravel road.. wheels had to be machined and repainted. To get a WOF all it needed was two front tyres. The fault code was reset before the WOF and it never came back and still hasn't (owner said it came on when kids were jumping up and down on the back seats) - urgh.. So it owes me around 9k now I guess by the time you factor in flights and travel and pissing around.

Here's a picture of mine after everything had been done..

Edited June 25, 2014 by The Diesel Guy

[kingkarl 136]

pretty cheap to look pretty important these days

[deeveus 81]

pretty cheap to look pretty important these days

Agreed. There's a guy that uses the same small supermarket here in Roslyn, he's got a 2011 760i which he paid over 350k for & tbh there isn't a 340k difference mine parked beside his wise.. only real advantage I seen him having was the reversing cameras and radar cruise control, oh and a few more ponies I guess lol.

[deeveus 81]

Here's one if your fella is still looking for one.. it's an import though & I just hate it how the number plates never fit on the back of these!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/bmw/auction-747548393.htm

[qube 3568]

Can those wheels be any smaller? Lol.

That boot can only fit those new slimline plates.. (which r stupid btw)

[kulgan 1042]

I might be biased but I still think the E38 was the last good looking 7 series.

And as for value for money you couldn't get better.

If you put a E65 and a E38 side by side at the same price I'd still choose the E38.

[tobytoblerone 3]

I've owned E65's & E66 (E65 = short wheel base, E66 = long wheel base) for the last 4 years now & must say they are a lot of vehicle for the money but it is getting harder & harder to find a good one on the used market (almost impossible for an E38 now). I have owned a 2002 & 2005 model, the later model year is much better as the computers that drive the cars main systems are noticeably faster, especially when using iDrive.

The main reason why the 7 Series fails to hold their values on the used market compared to a say a 5 or 1 series is simply due to the lack of demand. Most people simply do not want a large luxury european sedan that guzzles fuel (same applies for the flagships from Mercedes & Audi, the S-class fares worse in depreciation). The 7 series has always had lower sales numbers and dare I say is much a rarer vehicle as there is small demand for them new especially in NZ, I recently spoke to Team McMillan & they advised me that they sell fewer than 10 7 Series vehicles per year, they don't even have a demo vehicle anymore. This is also why most of the 7 Series out there on the market are used imports. My advice to anyone that decides to purchase an E65/E66 7 Series is to get the vehicle checked & only buy one if your going to keep it for a long time & are prepared to spend money on it, parts are expensive and you'll often need to import them yourself (have had to do this so many times!) as the dealers charge way too much. Be prepared to either pay a dealer or for you to start an electrical engineering degree, jokes. But almost!

It is astonishing to realise how much the 7 Series depreciates from new but it's just the life cycle of a large high end luxury vehicle. Once a 7 series hits the used market, the price plummets to meet the affordability of the general population & continues to drop as the vehicle goes from one owner to the next. Also $6k - $10k is very low for a 2002 E65/E66 7 Series & definitely does not reflect overall used market value for a 2002 E65/E66. The price structure for a used E65/E66 would look like this: $8k for a basket case (no service history, 3-4 owners & may require substantial mechanical/electrical work) & then $20k+ for a prime dealer-maintained example that has been checked (market value taken from 7 classifieds on TM), but in saying that you can sell anything at any price you like, doesn't necessarily represent market value (however we must stick to the rule of working out an average). The one mentioned above is in rough shape with high KM's & most likely is a basket case, the owner has stained the beige carpets which speaks volumes to how they must maintain the vehicle itself. The alloys are also not OEM ( those are replica an 18" replica of the OEM 19" E65 'Style 95' alloys). Here's how the cycle of luxury car depreciation works, lets take a used 2002 7 series as an example such as the one above. So we can assume the first owner of that 7 Series is going to be wealthy, the car from new is maintained to a very high standard by the dealer. The first owner then flicks the vehicle off to the second owner that is going to pay roughly 50% of it's original price say 3 years later, we can assume this person has a good amount of money behind them & they will make an informed decision as to their purchase meaning they will know what a 7 Series is, most if not all of it's features & have rough idea as to the costs to maintain/repair. Now 3 - 5 years later the vehicle is now 6-8 years old & this owner then flicks the vehicle off to the third owner at a price that will meet the general market. At this point the vehicle would be now worth 20 - 30% of it's original value. Now the third owner most likely won't make an informed purchase & not know anything about a 7 Series besides the fact that it's big, looks good & has the BMW badge then spend all of their money buying the vehicle with nothing left over to maintain and or repair it (which at this stage of it's life, will require a lot of maintenance. This is why a lot of large luxury european sedans start to die off & end up on TradeMe for $7k on auction! it's quite sad to see this happen but everything has to end up in the bin eventually & this happens to all luxury cars. At least then only the good ones shall remain as future classics!

Also in regards to the Singapore comment, there's nothing wrong with a Singapore imported 7 Series. I owned a Singapore E65 in 2010 & had not a single issue with it, mechanical maybe (to be expected) but never electrical! The electrical wiring disintegrating myth was only an issue on older 90's european vehicles. In fact the E65/E66 systems communicate over a fiber optic cable that runs in a loop between all of the vehicle's systems. There are still many technical innovations in these cars that continue to surpass any new vehicle from almost any japanese car manufacturer. I will say though costs to repair & maintain aren't that bad but certain things are expensive to replace eg. suspension components, transmission (air suspension, standard in long wheel base E66). Any and all E65/E66 owners out there get at me! I know this vehicle inside & out, I need to post more mods I've done to my 7 I just don't have the time like I used to.

My conclusion on the E65/E66 is that it will make a phenomenal classic in the future, awesome forward thinking design for it's time (still looks futuristic inside & out!) & the quality is actually surprisingly very good. I like the yacht like interior layout & the use of more wood trim, especially the wood trim on the rear parcel tray (yes BMW wood trims are real wood!).

My actual fully loaded long wheel base 7 Series, so many 7 Series owners have no idea what this truly means!

Edited July 3, 2014 by tobytoblerone

[kulgan 1042]

I've owned E65's & E66 (E65 = short wheel base, E66 = long wheel base) for the last 4 years now & must say they are a lot of vehicle for the money but it is getting harder & harder to find a good one on the used market (almost impossible for an E38 now).

I strongly disagree. If you look around there a a lot of very good E38's for sale. There was a few weeks ago a Silver E38 740i with 70,000km for sale on trademe at about $5k. Good ones come up for sale all the time.

I've had mine for almost 2 years now and all I've had to do to it was a oil change.

[qube 3568]

A friends dad bought a 7er brand new on a 1/3 1/3 1/3 paymenr plan which was 100k each year. Paid 100k upfront got the car. Next year had to pay another 100k as second installment, and car was now worth 100k. The year after, paid another 100k and car was worth 20.

Now go figure.

[deeveus 81]

A friends dad bought a 7er brand new on a 1/3 1/3 1/3 paymenr plan which was 100k each year. Paid 100k upfront got the car. Next year had to pay another 100k as second installment, and car was now worth 100k. The year after, paid another 100k and car was worth 20.

Now go figure.

You'd only buy a new one if it was under a company so that devaluation can be semi claimed, or you're just bad at maths and like loosing 100k a year on a car, in-fact if you bought a brand new 760li for 350k I can guarantee you it would be worth less than 150k the following 12 months. The house always wins, don't pass go, surrender 200k please.

[tobytoblerone 3]

A friends dad bought a 7er brand new on a 1/3 1/3 1/3 paymenr plan which was 100k each year. Paid 100k upfront got the car. Next year had to pay another 100k as second installment, and car was now worth 100k. The year after, paid another 100k and car was worth 20.

Now go figure.

The used value of a 7 Series has nothing to do with the quality, it's simply due to the demand. Google depreciation of a 7 Series and/or flagship luxury vehicles, it's well documented. It simply comes down to the demand for the type of vehicle, there is none. Read my post above, I have owned many flagship luxury vehicles.

[tobytoblerone 3]

An E36 M3 suggests a used value of $15k - $20k for a good one. A good 745i 2002 - 2005 on TradeMe still sells for $15k - $25k, that's not half if my math is correct when using averages on TradeMe and not a $7k basket case as a comparison.

[kingkarl 136]

An E36 M3 suggests a used value of $15k - $20k for a good one. A good 745i 2002 - 2005 on TradeMe still sells for $15k - $25k, that's not half if my math is correct when using averages on TradeMe and not a $7k basket case as a comparison.

As a function of the purchase price it is.

But hey, why worry about depreciation when Mummy and Daddy cover it right! Right!? LOL

Tool.

[deeveus 81]

It would have to be a bloody good 02-05 E65 for 15-20k - Mine has 195kms but luckily it turned out to be ok and I paid 6k for it, NZ New with FSH, could have gone the other way but at 6k it would be at least worth half that in parts.

[qube 3568]

Never said or intended they were depreciating in quality along with price. I understand what they are and i appreciate it. Would i own one? No. Only because i dont think i can afford to spend money on it and keep it as well maintained as it deserves.

I think 6k for your car diesel guy was a real bargain. And you got quite lucky too! Some good things do happen in life

[Cheyne 17]

The Singapore issues with electrical problems are not a myth. They may be over-hyped and you may be lucky and get a car that has been mostly garage kept. But the experience that I had when I first bought my Singapore import E38 is not one that I would voluntarily put myself through again. The heat and humidity destroyed all of the wiring loom in the engine bay. Every single connector was heat soaked and brittle. Sure it wasn't fatal to the car, but it just caused niggle after niggle. In the end it was easier to just replace the whole loom.

Then you have the servicing (or lack thereof) issues. Most Singapore cars will spend their days either idling in traffic or sitting around with the engine running to keep the A/C on and the car interior cool while the owner does shopping. So their engines will have run many more hours than the mileage would suggest.

Having spent time working in Singapore and having friends and family who live there. They have all experienced problems with their cars due to the local conditions. Again not fatal problems, but just niggles - Electrical problems due to broken connections, mildew and mold build up in the interior due to the humidity and heater condenser failures due to under use and them eventually rotting out.

I could never imagine the pain that owning a Singapore import e65 could bring. Especially one that has been in Singapore for 6 years or more.