Head gasket - maybe?

[Kepes 231]

Not such a good day for me today! I think my head gasket went bad, but i'm not 100% sure. It probably is, but i'm REALLY hoping it isn't.

1987 325i E30 - 321,000km

Here's what happened
I started my car as usual and as I was driving I noticed white 'smoke' in my rear view mirror. I'm used to seeing a bit when it's cold, but it usually just disappears (steam). This was thicker, and lingered a bit longer. There was more of it under harder acceleration etc. I always fill up at Mobil, but had filled up at Z yesterday and so I thought it was just the fuel. Then the coolant light came on on the check panel. That's when I thought head gasket. The car's temp was still normal on the gauge. So, I stopped and sure enough the coolant was low. I carry coolant in my boot, so I waited about 20min for the engine to cool before I opened the expansion tank. I did so slowly, and there was pressure/air coming out. As this happened, the coolant level rose back up to the 'max' line on the tank. I could hear it moving through the hoses and it sounded like there was air or something in there too. I checked the dipstick to see if the oil was milky and it looked fine. The coolant, however had little gold bits in it. The best way I could describe it is that it looked like gold glitter in the expansion tank.

Sorry for the long read, but I don't know whats going on and hope someone can help me out! If it turns out to be head gasket, I may just get another engine. I am really interested in a M30B35 swap. But only when I have to. I want to get as much as I can out of this M20.
Thanks for reading and any help you may have

Edit: Went for a drive. Engine feels 'lumpy' and inconsistent (google says that this suggests water in the cylinders). Would lose power momentarily at times. It sounded different too. I can't really describe it though. It was just different. Once it warmed up a bit it was fine. Still plenty of smoke out the tail.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Kepes

[yng_750 247]

Gold glitter sounds like what you get in block seal. Recent purchase?.

Or possibly a water pump chewing itself up which would leave metal behind sometimes and leak.

From what ive seen the m20 is quite prone to cracking heads when over heated. So if its blown i would bet on a mew motor as the easier faster option.

If you engine swap you would be much much better off doing a m50 or m52 swap. M52b28 will have heaps more power than an m30 with being liggter and way more efficient. not so bad for installing and wiring. Biggest issue is the exhaust usually.

[Kepes 231]

Gold glitter sounds like what you get in block seal. Recent purchase?.

Or possibly a water pump chewing itself up which would leave metal behind sometimes and leak.

From what ive seen the m20 is quite prone to cracking heads when over heated. So if its blown i would bet on a mew motor as the easier faster option.

If you engine swap you would be much much better off doing a m50 or m52 swap. M52b28 will have heaps more power than an m30 with being liggter and way more efficient. not so bad for installing and wiring. Biggest issue is the exhaust usually.

No block seal, but I've only had the car for just under a year and there has always been a bit of this glitter so possibly previous owner.

The engine has never over heated while I've had the car. But, since you mention that the gold glitter may be block seal, and there was a brand new radiator in the car when I bought it, I'm starting to think it may have overheated on the previous owner?? I bought the car from a dealer (it was a trade in) so I can't really find out.

As for engines, I figure that the B28's may be better, but vanos and all that other stuff puts me off a bit. M30 just really appeals to me for some reason. But like you say, the m50/2 is more logical so I might go down that path.

[yng_750 247]

M50 is easier. M52 can have a vanos delete which will bring the power down a little but still much lighter than the iron block m50 or m30

[kiwi535 538]

M30 also known for cracking heads eventually,mine did and i looked after it well

[slideways 47]

Any water in the oil?

[Kepes 231]

Had a little look around this morning so here's an update. Just to be clear, the car never overheated, and the temp never rose past where it usually sits.

I had a look around the engine bay and it appears that coolant has leaked from somewhere as there was a little puddle of coolant on the undertray. Maybe a leak from HG
I think there is oil in the coolant, but I'm not 100% sure. It doesn't look like the photos of "oil in coolant" which I saw on google images. The coolant definitely smells different. A bit like oil!
I started the engine and let it idle for 5mins. Shut it off, checked the coolant. There was a layer of brownish 'foam' on top of the coolant. See photo.
The oil on the dipstick had tiny little bubbles on it. I took the oil cap off the valve cover, and there was a small amount of chocolate milkshake coloured built up on it.

Im fairly sure it's the head gasket but it's my first car so really I'm not too sure. It may be something else I don't know about.

If anyone else has experienced something like this let me know :-) Next stop the mechanics I think. Thanks for the help thus far

[slideways 47]

Could have had a blown head gasket and some kind of additive to plug it up which has now let go. Ive had a head stud stretch on a m20b25 in turn blowing the HG so just because you havnt overheated it, doesnt mean the HG isnt blown unfortunately. It would be water in the oil which would be the easiest to spot so maybe take it for a good drive then check in the oil cap for choc milkshake.

[Kepes 231]

Took it for about a 20min drive. Still the same symptoms. The milkshake coloured buildup on the oil cap is present, but it's a tiny amount. No evident coolant in oil on dipstick. The coolant smells a bit like oil, but still looks green as it did before (The foam which can be seen in the photo on my previous post disappears once engine cools). Performance does not seem different at all. Still pulls hard. Still smoky exhaust.

Before this all happened on Friday night, I had been losing coolant. Not a lot though so I wasn't really concerned. It was about a finger-widths worth of coolant in the expansion tank every 2 weeks.

Is there something I can do confirm it is a head gasket, or maybe even a cracked head? Or should I leave that up to my mechanic? I'm in college so would prefer to save money and DIY where I can!

Thanks for helping ;-)

[e30ftw 410]

Sounds like someone botched it up in the past. The kms are quite high too if that's the original engine.

Why does the Vanos put you of an m52? It's actually a easy straight forward motor to work on.

I can take you for a whip around in mine, if you need some convincing

[twisted 45]

Yeah glitter Is definitely block seal/one shot or something similar. Hg, won't necessarily mean coolant in oil, or oil in coolant. Does the white smoke smell sweet?

M52B28 is a great engine. Nothing to be scared of with vanos.

[Kepes 231]

Sounds like someone botched it up in the past. The kms are quite high too if that's the original engine.

Why does the Vanos put you of an m52? It's actually a easy straight forward motor to work on.

I can take you for a whip around in mine, if you need some convincing

Yeah I think that's what has happened! Unfortunately. It's cool though, I've done some research and replacing the head gasket does't seem too bad of a job at all.

It's just that I see a lot of negatives about it. Noisy on cold start, seal having to be replaced/rebuild. But the more I think about it the better I feel towards it. If I was to swap, I would use an engine like yours.

Hahah, I couldn't keep up to you at the last meet so it's ok, I'm convinced!

As for the high Km engine, I'm pretty sure it's original.

Im not sure whether I should rebuild the head or just swap in a new engine. If you don't mind me asking, how much did the M52 cost you? all up (install, parts etc)

[Kepes 231]

Yeah glitter Is definitely block seal/one shot or something similar. Hg, won't necessarily mean coolant in oil, or oil in coolant. Does the white smoke smell sweet?

M52B28 is a great engine. Nothing to be scared of with vanos.

I think the engine must have overheated previously because there was a new radiator in it when I bought it. Probably a clog or something and the heat caused the Gasket to go, so they used block seal and tried to hide it before selling.

Yes, the white smoke does smell sweet. Definitely different to how it previously smelt.

I would love the M52B28. I don't plan on getting rid of this E30 so maybe a new engine would actually be my best bet....

Edit: I don't want to be car-less for too long so depending on the cost of a M52B28, I might just add some 'head gasket fix' or block seal etc and some thick oil until I can find an engine and have the time for a swap. But maybe that's a bad idea.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Kepes

[yng_750 247]

Camt go too far wrong. Rislone is the best..i used the 28 dollar block seal from sca a couple of times

[e30ftw 410]

I picked up my engine complete for $500 from a guy local selling it to do an electric motor conversion. Only bought it because it was too good of a deal to pass on, wasn't even looking for one or planning to do a swap. I also sold my old m20b25 for $700 which was a mint runner and offset the costs afterwards, so probably actually spent a little over $1500 haha.

[Kepes 231]

I picked up my engine complete for $500 from a guy local selling it to do an electric motor conversion. Only bought it because it was too good of a deal to pass on, wasn't even looking for one or planning to do a swap. I also sold my old m20b25 for $700 which was a mint runner and offset the costs afterwards, so probably actually spent a little over $1500 haha.

That's such a good deal! Lucky. I'm gonna replace the head gasket, water pump, cambelt, and tensioner I think. And just wait it out for a good deal on a motor.

Did you do the swap yourself? If so, how much previous experience had you had? I mean, I can confidently work on my motor, but whether I'm capable of an engine swap... hmm

Edited August 18, 2014 by Kepes

[yng_750 247]

If you can spare the time pull the head before you buy all the parts. No point getting stuck with gaskets etc if the head turns out to be cracked.

[Kepes 231]

If you can spare the time pull the head before you buy all the parts. No point getting stuck with gaskets etc if the head turns out to be cracked.

Definitely very logical, however I don't have a garage. Would it be a problem to pull the head and leave everything 'open' under the hood for a week or something? Otherwise I will probably do as you suggested. Wise

[yng_750 247]

Yea should be fine. Theres a block drain plug under the exhaust manifold at the back. Hard to get to but if you pull that there wont be water flooding into the cylinders when you pull the head.

[e30ftw 410]

Buy a spare head and just spend a day swapping it on then. If your one turns out good just sell it on.

It's quite straight forward, just takes some time. Plenty of write ups around.

[Kepes 231]

How much can I expect to pay for a head? Theres one on trade me atm for around $400. Buy now $650. Seems a bit much?

Edit: Seller says he'll take $450 buy now for this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=766799213

Reasonable?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Kepes

[slideways 47]

Your head should be fine with a quick plane. If its cracked you will know with the excessive water in the oil as they usually crack along or between the cam journals. Id just pull it then get it tested/planed first then you will have a better idea on what you will need to buy to get it all back together.

[Kepes 231]

Alright. I think I'm sussed! Thanks for all the help...

Is it worth buying a compression tester and testing each cylinder beforehand?

[yng_750 247]

My one cracked from the water jacket through to the exhaust valve

[Kepes 231]

Whether it's the head gasket or a cracked head I'll have to take the head off and will need new gaskets, timing belt, tensioner etc.

I'm going to buy all sometime in the next few days, but I really don't want to forget anything.

So far in the cart I've got:
Valve cover gasket
Exhaust manifold to downpipes gasket
Alternator belt

Power steering belt
A/C belt
Cambelt +tensioner
Locknuts to replace the old rusty ones. (Exhaust to head nuts & Manifold to downpipes nuts)
Cam seal + Oring
Waterpump + gasket
Head gasket
Head bolts

Is there anything else I should be doing?

Also when it comes to getting the head machined, do I have to remove the cams? I'd also like to get the head hot washed so it's clean. Should I get the valve re-seated or anything similar like this?

Cheers