E36 M3 Racer

[10hove 0]

Hey Alex, they comply for OSCAR as it is basically an all commers class anyway. We can also run with Brennon Sport Sedans as they allow a minimum 3ltr and above 6 cyl Natural Asp.

You might be able to help me with some parts. Copy the cage for sure. It is pretty full on and is going to be a pain to paint but sh*t happens. All in the name of safety. I'll be making some pretty cool Suspension parts that you may be interested in also.

We could team up and run a 2 car team in the enduros once they are both finished. I don't mind running carspot on my car. Yes I know I am cheeky.

Clamp PM me you email address and we'll se what we can work on together,Im looking at a couple of shock packages but will probabaly end up with koni just becuase of support from Grant at stocks

although I might look at MCA from oz there are supposed to be pretty good and proced between $1100 and $1500 a corner

catch up on the email

cheers

hove

[smokenbaby 0]

Why, specifically, is a supertourer cage unacceptable for homologation?

The bars that are circled are the main issue with MANZ. MANZ say that the backstays have to go from the top of the main hoop to either the rear wheel arce or the suspension points and MUST be as close to the outside of the car as possible. To comply with this it would have ment a whole lot of pissing around to do so. It would have ment that there were some wasted bars as they would have been redundant. But hey what do you do? Have to have it homologated so had to change the design.

On an interesting note, if you buy an ex super tourer/BTCC car you have to add the 2 back stays in just to comply it here. Why do the FIA deem the cages safe enough for international motorsport and MANZ don't. Even buy the factory build WTCC 320's would be non compliable here. Go figure.

[smokenbaby 0]

Update:

Picked up the Motor yesterday. Was the 3 ltr on trade me a while ago. There were some posts saying it was just a dressed up 2.5 and not a genuine M3 motor. This couldn't be further from the truth. It is the original motor out of my car and all the number match, plus I know the history. My chassis number is eh02510 if you want to check.

But anyway. it takes the car one step closer to being on the track.

Things that are in the pipeline and progressing well are Moly front control arms (fully adjustable), front and rear moly swaybars, brakes are researched and sorted (just need to order) Fuel system is underway (tank set up for quick fill but only using a single filler to start with. Carbon fibre with alloy honeycomb panels for the door openings and drivers floor, and plain carbon firbe panels for door, quarter and rear firewall are sorted with patterns cut out.

Things I haven't started to think about yet - wiring, paint, wheels/tires, seat the list goes on.

Still got a bit of engineering to do before the car gets primer ready for paint. Paint is the last thing to be done. Is a shame to completely build the car and then have to strip it to a bare shell again just to paint it.

I'll post some update pictures one day once I sort through them.

Edited August 20, 2007 by smokenbaby

[cainchapman 0]

something like this?

Looking forward to seeing more of it.

[smokenbaby 0]

something like this?

Looking forward to seeing more of it.

Is going to be quite a bit different to that set up. I am using the standard tank still as it keeps the weight forward of the rear wheels and low in the car. But the system is the same in principle.

[smokenbaby 0]

Air Jacks, to install or not to install.

Would make things alot easier when it comes to Enduros and also servicing the car at home. Have a few options on what to buy and install. Will be a nice feature and of cause will add to the wankability of the whole finished project.

Might have a few photos to add soon.

Stay tuned for an update soon.

[E30-323ti 66]

Air Jacks, to install or not to install.

Would make things alot easier when it comes to Enduros and also servicing the car at home. Have a few options on what to buy and install. Will be a nice feature and of cause will add to the wankability of the whole finished project.

Might have a few photos to add soon.

Stay tuned for an update soon.

Air Jacks, what a luxury

Have you got any pics of the tubular control arms??

Have you modded the front subframe to lift the pick-up point & put into double shear?

What have you done for the rear control arm mount? have you made this height adjustable?

Wouldn't mind a guided tour one day if you have the time.

[smokenbaby 0]

Tube front arms are about to get jigged up at work so no photos yet. The cross member is going to remain unmodified only so I can replace if bent without the need to remodify on or have a spare. The pick-up point will be the same as factory as I am having some special pins made that replicate the balljoint pin but have a “U†shaped slot on the end for the Rosejoint to mount to, and I will be running “pins†at the strut end to maintain the correct arm/steering heights.

As yet I have not started to cover the rear end. Moving the rear control arm points will be something to work out as well. Will have to do some research on this to see if there is a need for it. I have a pretty good contact through work that should be able to see me right on this.

Air Jacks are a definate luxury.

To be honest with you. A guided tour is of no real use as there isn't much to look at yet. Most of the work has been done on paper not on the car yet. Once more progress has been made on the car then I may be in a position to show you it. Anyone is more than welcome to come check it out at a track when it is finished. No dramas there at all.

[E30-323ti 66]

Tube front arms are about to get jigged up at work so no photos yet. The cross member is going to remain unmodified only so I can replace if bent without the need to remodify on or have a spare. The pick-up point will be the same as factory as I am having some special pins made that replicate the balljoint pin but have a “U†shaped slot on the end for the Rosejoint to mount to, and I will be running “pins†at the strut end to maintain the correct arm/steering heights.

As yet I have not started to cover the rear end. Moving the rear control arm points will be something to work out as well. Will have to do some research on this to see if there is a need for it. I have a pretty good contact through work that should be able to see me right on this.

Air Jacks are a definate luxury.

To be honest with you. A guided tour is of no real use as there isn't much to look at yet. Most of the work has been done on paper not on the car yet. Once more progress has been made on the car then I may be in a position to show you it. Anyone is more than welcome to come check it out at a track when it is finished. No dramas there at all.

Reason I ask about lifting the front control arm mounts is half use of going away from stock arms is to lift the mount so when you are running the car quite low you don't drop the roll centre under ground, which is a fundemental problem with the E30/36 front end.

I was also refering to the rear mount of the front control arms, raising/lowering the rear of the arm will allow you alter the cars anti-dive traits.

The backend on a E36 is another kettle of fish if you are running the car low and does some funky things to the geometry.

To an engineer, there is always use at looking at things in progress, building it is 90% of the fun, thats why mine is in pieces 90% of the time LOL.

[smokenbaby 0]

I'm hearing you there. But sometimes the building is a pain in the ass and never gets done as you loose interest and it turns into a 3 year project.

Oh, Ill be leaving the rear mount of thr front arms pretty much where they are to start with. My friend used to race a NZ 2ltr touring car and he is leanding me advice on the set up also. I know that he did some stuff to the rear end to make it better.

[conrod 1]

Looking good! There are quite a few E36's in the race series now which is really good to see.

Interesting that MNZ won't homologate the Supertourer cage because of the reasons you pointed out, the late E30 DTM cage was identical in this area so would also have problems. Another case of not using common sense and going by the letter of the rule book!

I was involved in the original build of the NZ Touring cars, and we were very limited to what we could do to the suspension because of the rules. We ended up with the front roll centre about 75mm below ground level, and the rear was 150mm above, so this made for some "interesting" handling to say the least! I think you are on the right track by leaving the rear alone, and concentrating on the front. If you must stick with the standard (unmodified) crossmember, then it might be prudent to extend the outer pickup points downwards, by way of some pins fitted to the front upright, to get the roll centre back to a sensible level. I did do this on one of the NZ Tourers at one point, and it improved it quite a bit, but it was deemed to be illegal so it was only used in testing. Here are some pics of an Italian E30 DTM front suspension, basically the same as an E36, might give you some ideas.

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/...c_gra_pic-1.jpg

P.S. if you are contemplating air jacks, drop me a line, someone I know is beginning to produce them here in NZ, haven't seen them yet but I know the quality will be good,, and the price should be friendly too!

PPS. here is a pic of one of the "replacement" front suspension mounts same person made for me, copied from the original BMW Motorsport piece. Wasn't cheap, but very nice!

Edited September 4, 2007 by conrod

[E30-323ti 66]

Looking good! There are quite a few E36's in the race series now which is really good to see.

Interesting that MNZ won't homologate the Supertourer cage because of the reasons you pointed out, the late E30 DTM cage was identical in this area so would also have problems. Another case of not using common sense and going by the letter of the rule book!

I was involved in the original build of the NZ Touring cars, and we were very limited to what we could do to the suspension because of the rules. We ended up with the front roll centre about 75mm below ground level, and the rear was 150mm above, so this made for some "interesting" handling to say the least! I think you are on the right track by leaving the rear alone, and concentrating on the front. If you must stick with the standard (unmodified) crossmember, then it might be prudent to extend the outer pickup points downwards, by way of some pins fitted to the front upright, to get the roll centre back to a sensible level. I did do this on one of the NZ Tourers at one point, and it improved it quite a bit, but it was deemed to be illegal so it was only used in testing. Here are some pics of an Italian E30 DTM front suspension, basically the same as an E36, might give you some ideas.

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/...c_gra_pic-1.jpg

P.S. if you are contemplating air jacks, drop me a line, someone I know is beginning to produce them here in NZ, haven't seen them yet but I know the quality will be good,, and the price should be friendly too!

PPS. here is a pic of one of the "replacement" front suspension mounts same person made for me, copied from the original BMW Motorsport piece. Wasn't cheap, but very nice!

Thats interesting to hear they were illegal, I guess it all keeps the costs in check.

I've got some pics of a similar pin arrangement for the outer mounts for the E36, I'll dig them out, you can get the tie-rods & shims from GC in the states to tidy-up the bump steer too, very nice bits.

ps. hope you got a CAD-CNC file made of that bit conrod, make future replacements easier and for those that want some copies

Edited September 4, 2007 by E30-323ti

[conrod 1]

Thats interesting to hear they were illegal, I guess it all keeps the costs in check.

Hah, costs were never in check on these cars! It was actually the method used to correct the bump steer that the "roll centre pins" created, that was deemed illegal, not the pins themselves, but thats another story......

ps. hope you got a CAD-CNC file made of that bit conrod, make future replacements easier and for those that want some copies

Yep, they are on file. But at just over $1000 a pair, I don't think people will be lining up to buy them!

Edited September 4, 2007 by conrod

[smokenbaby 0]

http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/...c_gra_pic-1.jpg

This is exactly what I am doing to the front of my car. Have it all drawn up and ready to start machining it. The block at the back is nice and easy to produce as it is just cut from 25mm alloy stock.

P.S. if you are contemplating air jacks, drop me a line, someone I know is beginning to produce them here in NZ, haven't seen them yet but I know the quality will be good,, and the price should be friendly too!

I have a few options here. We have some at work that I can grab but they need a rebuild as they have been sitting for quite a few years. Another option is to install some D2 brand airjacks, my price for a set of 4 is pretty good.

PPS. here is a pic of one of the "replacement" front suspension mounts same person made for me, copied from the original BMW Motorsport piece. Wasn't cheap, but very nice!

That is pretty bloody nice looking. I like it.

You would have intimate memories of my friend Aaron Harris's old e36 tourer then. Is the ex Beird 325i.

[conrod 1]

Another option is to install some D2 brand airjacks, my price for a set of 4 is pretty good.

You would have intimate memories of my friend Aaron Harris's old e36 tourer then. Is the ex Beird 325i.

The guy I know is making them for drift cars, so they might be "D2" brand?

Both of the "old" E36 (coupe) tourers will be racing in the open class, Mike Tubbs car is one of them, and Brett Cowan owns the other (Aaron Harris car) Both now running 3.2 M3/6 speeds. Yep I remember them well. I ran Jason Richards car for two years.

[smokenbaby 0]

From memory is there anything special needing to be done to the rear ends. I'm lucky in the respect that M3's come standard with the subframe-chassis mount double plates so that is already taken care off. I have rear chamber adjustable arms already but what else the norm for E36 race cars.

The front is pretty much well sorted.

[conrod 1]

From memory is there anything special needing to be done to the rear ends. I'm lucky in the respect that M3's come standard with the subframe-chassis mount double plates so that is already taken care off. I have rear chamber adjustable arms already but what else the norm for E36 race cars.

The front is pretty much well sorted.

That was pretty much all we did on the rear. Solid bushes on the diff housing as well, and replaced the outer lower bush on the Z link with a nylon part, with the centre offset to allow more camber. Camber adjustment taken care of by the standard inner adjusters. Spring platforms made adjustable(we weren't allowed to run coilover) but would run coilovers if allowed as it is much easier. Which means you could probably ditch the upper arm and replace with a fabricated one, as you wouldn't need the spring platform. Also used to strengthen the bottom arms, but again would bin them and fabricate some, they are very weak.

[smokenbaby 0]

that is all that I had planned on doing. I hadn't however thought about replacing the top arm with a moly one. Was just going to leave it there. But seem I am running coilovers in the rear it make so much sence to bin it and save a little bit of weight.

If you don't mind I'll pick your brain some more when I need a secong opinion.

Thanks

[smokenbaby 0]

Something like this is where the first evolution will hit the track.

Progress has been slow over the last couple of months. Planning on spending all of xmas break working on the car. Hopefully will have it back on some wheels with the motor in and box behind it. This is just for a dummy up to work some stuff out.

Edited December 6, 2007 by smokenbaby

[smokenbaby 0]

Little bit of an update (yes has been a while, last update was Dec 07) but not much has happened due to being busy.

What has been done then? Well as my last update said, I wanted to spend the xmas break working on it. I did but I am not to sure what I did to her all that time ago. Think it was when I cleaned/prepped and primed the inside. Yes I know, bit slack really.

Since then I had pondered on how I was going to make and mount the seat rails. Had wanted to stay away from the usual 25x25x3 box section welded to some stubs and welded to the floor. I wanted to make sure the seat rails were tied into the cage so in the advent of an impact the seat would not move a huge amount with the floor and slacken the belts. So I had a look at the 406 Super Tourer that was at work to see how they had done it and even though they were simple enough to make they hadn't tied them to the cage. So after a little bit of thought (about 3 weeks) I had come up with the way I have mounted them. Nice and simple and effective. The seat is very solidly mounted.

Then I spent what seemed like all of Winter removing the under sealer from under the car. to do this I had to put her up on a spit so as to turn her on her side. Easier said than done. Now this rubber under sealer the factory uses is a real pain in the arse to remove. Sand blasting doesn't touch it, dipping was out of the question so all i could come up with was a nice sharp chisel and start scrapping it. Was easy to remove like this but took bloody ages due to the flatness of the chisel and the contours of the floor pan. Once I had remove the rubber with the chisel i still had to get the sanding wheel on the grinder and take it all back to metal and remove the small areas of rubber missed. Etch primed her up and then bolted the tank, front and rear suspension back in and took her off the spit.

I changed my mind on what wheels I am running and have now purchased 12 Speedline Magnes/Ali race wheels. Have remained with running 16 inch wheels at this stage of the build.

The next evolution of the car will include more power so I may have to up the size of wheels/tires in the future.

I am now looking at staying away from the factory computer as I will not be running any of the original wiring or OBC. By doing this it opens up a huge can of warms and you have to trick the ECU that all the sensors are being run and the parameters are within spec. To do this you need to put the appropriate resistance on the wire so the ECU sees everthing as being OK. Now this is a pain and if there are any issues experienced then it will be almost impossible to fault find and the ECU will go into Limp Home Mode. Not ideal when you are at the track.

So this brings me to another interesting decision. What should I use for engine management. Link is looking pretty good and from what I can tell the VANOS control should work fine. Even though it will take time to set up correctly. I do have a contact that deals a lot with Turner Motorsport and he is certain that they can help me out with a map so all good. This will make the wiring of the car a lot easier and tidier as I will be starting with new plugs from BMW and then making the new engine loom, connecting to a new chassis loom etc.

I did get the engine and a “broken†gearbox up it in the hole so have been working out a few things. Have an airbox pattern lent from a friend to make a carbon airbox so that will start happening soon. Making a few carbon bits for the inside as per the Super Tourers and not only will these add the Bling factor but will be functional.

An update on the suspension is need but not very exciting. The front arms are going to remain standard for the cheap replacement cost and easily obtainable when needed. Plus, the car is not going to be run super low as my Boss has confirmed the spring heights with an Ex Tourer engineer. At present the front arms are sitting slightly down at the wheel end with the current ride height. This may change slightly once I have got the alignment done and sorted out the finished ride height once the car is together. There may be a need to Spike the bottom of the struts (as Conrad said) to level the arm back out.

Brakes are all sorted now and I know what I am running, just have to open the floodgates in my wallet to purchase.

I’ll try remember to bring some pics to work and post them at some stage this week. But here are a couple to tease you with.

[smokenbaby 0]

Made a purchase today, just about fell over when told the price.

Few months back when I priced up the front disks (my price) they were $330 + gst each. Today the price has blown out to $690 + gst each. This is all due to the exchange rate at the moment. Was lucky enough though to be able to purchase both front disks for $1102 incl gst. Nice little saving and that can now be channelled into the cost of the front calipers.

Edited March 18, 2009 by smokenbaby

[CamB 48]

Euro has gone from 55c to 40c. Doesn't sound like a justification for doubling the price to me. I feel bad for you!

Actually that's me assuming from Europe. US pricing probably different - what are the brakes/disks going to be?

[smokenbaby 0]

Nice and simple brakes really. Front E46 M3 325x28mm semi floaters (OEM parts) 6 pot Wilwood calipers. Rear E36 Brembo disks with 4 pot Wilwood.

I have been watching the price difference including freight to purchase from both UK and USA on the front disks and the price I got them for this morning from Dealer in NZ was on par/slightly cheaper than importing them.

[CamB 48]

Ouch, its a lot of $$$ out the door!

Makes me worried for the day I need new disks for mine - they're the smaller semi-floaters.

[smokenbaby 0]

You you don't mind running a slightly thinner disk (3mm total) you can save $40 each by running the E46 330i semi floaters. They are 325x25mm.

But hey, if you are spending over $600 a disk whats another $40 to get the right part.