1990 e30 316i manual making noises, losing power

[martyyn 2]

All,

My nephews 316i (M10 ?) has started making an incredible 'flapping' noise, sort of like you get when you put a piece of paper in a fan. Very consistant in terms of repitition but I cant remember if it speeds up as the revs increase.

Anyway as soon as you hit 3500 revs in second it just seems to choke....no power at all. When in third it does it at 3000 revs.

Everything under the bonnet appears to be in good condition I cant see anything obvious thats loose or leaking.

Any ideas whilst I have it on my driveway for the evening ?

Edited February 6, 2007 by martyyn

[10hove 0]

All,

My nephews 316i (M10 ?) has started making an incredible 'flapping' noise, sort of like you get when you put a piece of paper in a fan. Very consistant in terms of repitition but I cant remember if it speeds up as the revs increase.

Anyway as soon as you hit 3500 revs in second it just seems to choke....no power at all. When in third it does it at 3000 revs.

Everything under the bonnet appears to be in good condition I cant see anything obvious thats loose or leaking.

Any ideas whilst I have it on my driveway for the evening ?

Check it isnt the cam belt breaking up, if the sound comes from the cambelt cover area take care, Im not sure if this an interference negine but if it breaks a cambelt can be pretty bad for the engine.

It could also be a fan breaking up as you say it sounds like .

good luck

Hove

Edited February 6, 2007 by Alex ten Hove

[will 169]

this will be the m40 motor, will destruct if it is a cambelt shredding itself and it breaks..

Would be the first thing I would check and DON'T start the motor again till you have checked it..

Will

[martyyn 2]

Can one of you fellas give me a picture of what Im looking for.

Dont forget Im very new to all this. Ill search the web too.

Cheers

[Gus 5]

a lack of power? it had any in the first place?

....

couldnt help myself

[will 169]

Can one of you fellas give me a picture of what Im looking for.

Dont forget Im very new to all this. Ill search the web too.

Cheers

The belt is hidden behind the cover at the front. You would have to do some removal to get to it.

The bit that makes me think it is more than just a fan etc coming apart is the lack of power at increasing rpm, that would normally signify that the timing is haywire. It may not be this but the noise you are getting along with the loss of power strongly suggests something like this.

I will try to get something up when I get back from work, but, in the meantime, try to have a look at the front area behind the fan and see if there is any bits of cambelt oozing out from behind the cover if you can't figure how to remove it.

I would still not try to start it at this stage because of the damage you could do even at idle speeds.

a lack of power? it had any in the first place?

....

couldnt help myself

Gus, beats a bicycle hands down..!!! Bet you wish you had a 316 auto right now !!

Will

[martyyn 2]

Thanks for that Will, Ill try and get over to his place tonight to have a look.

The thing is that the noise is predominantly from around the back of the engine, Id even go so far to say that it was around the center console when your in the car.

When I opened the window as the car was running it was almost directly beneath me.

[Silver Fox 43]

Have you checked the donut at the back of the gearbox?

[bravo 35]

Don't go and drive it to find the following out as if it is the cambelt, then you may kill it if it breaks, but:

If the noise is there when you aren't moving, then you can rule out brakes, diff, and drivetrain rear of the gearbox. If the noise is there when stationary, and the clutch is depressed, you can also rule out anything to do with the gearbox.

This leaves you with the motor.

Trying to determine where a sound is coming from whilst inside the car is impossible as the sounds travel all over the place. You need to be outside the car to pinpoint where it is coming from.

[will 169]

Thanks for that Will, Ill try and get over to his place tonight to have a look.

The thing is that the noise is predominantly from around the back of the engine, Id even go so far to say that it was around the center console when your in the car.

When I opened the window as the car was running it was almost directly beneath me.

Martyyn, I went for the cambelt option because it seemed the most likely to cause a consistant noise and cause a loss of power. But if the noise was definitely from the rear of the motor then I am at a bit of a loss.

If it was the donut coupling between the gearbox and the prop, it would normally rattle the fillings out of your teeth if it was severe enough to cause the car to refuse to rev. while being driven.

If you are absolutely sure it was from the rear of the engine, I suggest you start the car and report on the following, may give me a better idea what might be happening. (Leave it idling just to make sure the noise isn't coming from the timing belt cover up front!! If it is, switch it OFF!!!)

Is the noise present while the car is standing still and in neutral while idling? (foot off clutch)

If this is the case, if you depress the clutch pedal, does it then go away?

Or does it only appear when in gear, with clutch depressed,

Or while being driven?

Does it increase with revs?

Let me know what you find.

I have attached a .pdf with the M40 engine in amongst the rest of the pages. Sorry I can't separate it. May be of help to you.

[martyyn 2]

Thanks Will looks good.

Numpty question time....

1. Cambelt and timing belt are the same thing ?

2. Is there a cambelt cover that I can just remove to see what state it is in, or does it require removal of items that mean the car cant run until its all put back together with gaskets and stuff ?

Can you tell Im a beginner ?

[will 169]

Thanks Will looks good.

Numpty question time....

1. Cambelt and timing belt are the same thing ?

2. Is there a cambelt cover that I can just remove to see what state it is in, or does it require removal of items that mean the car cant run until its all put back together with gaskets and stuff ?

Can you tell Im a beginner ?

1. yes

2. yes, check the attached .pdf for how to get the top bit off. It involves first removing the dizzy cap at the front of the head, then getting the rotor arm off inside so you can remove the dust cover, then getting the alley cover off is easy.

The motor can't be run with the cover off as you won't be able to remount the dizzy cap, but you can turn the engine over using the crank bolt to check the belt for condition of teeth, tension, etc. No gaskets required to reassemble, just replace the dust cap, rotor arm and dizzy cap after putting the alley cover back.

We all had to start somewhere, my father used me one day at the ripe old age of just under a year old to help him work on his Fiat cub, sat me on the fender and handed me very greasy spanners to hold.. he barely survived the earbashing my mother gave him.. been at it ever since.

Will

Edited February 7, 2007 by will

[BMW POWER 2]

a lack of power? it had any in the first place?

....

couldnt help myself

And Gus where did you start off from, bearing in mind that no 16 year old in their right mind has a M3.

[will 169]

And Gus where did you start off from, bearing in mind that no 16 year old in their right mind has a M3.

I can't wait to see if Gus loses his bicycle licence BEFORE he gets his car one back...

Any bets out there???

[martyyn 2]

Right, got a chance to have a go at this today. Thanks for the info Will, it was excellent.

First off started the car to see where the noise was coming from.....nothing. No rattle no nothing.

So decided to check out the cambelt anyway and had some fun getting all the covers off etc, but finally managed it to find the cam belt in what would appear to be excellent condition. Not that Ive seen another one before but it was tight, no cracks, and had all its teeth.

The only problem was that screws at the top had some kind of washer on them. It was like a 'filler' to stop the two pieces from fitting together too tightly. Anyway as we were putting it all back together one of them fell out and dropped to somewhere we couldnt see.

It definately wasnt on the floor or any cross members or anything so we thought it had gone behind the belt A quick trip to Repco for a magnet on an extendible arm but even with that we couldnt find it !

We decided to put it all back together and hope for the best. She started up first time and as before no noise.

I took it for a drive and slowly the noise came back but not as bad as before. Its definately not at the front of the engine and gets louder and faster as the revs go up.

It comfortably went over 3000 revs this time and seemed ok.

What I noticed was that the noise was present when idling (although pretty quiet) and went away all together with the clutch in when driving. It sounded like someone flicking through a pack of cards.

What I also noticed was the dizzy was knackered, as was the rotor arm, could that have anything to do with it ?

[Hartage 0]

Dont think that is anything to do with the dizzy, But what about oil in gearbox?? Is the noise there when clutch depressed??

Will be at SKIDZ tomorrow am, txt me and bring it over!

[martyyn 2]

Nope, no noise when you depress the clutch.

Where is Steve's place and what time? Not sure if we can make it tomorrow morning.

Not that I dont appreciate the offer Ian

Edited February 10, 2007 by martyyn

[Hartage 0]

Txt me, am heading to Stephens soon, Johnsonville,

[will 169]

If the noise is there with the car idling, in neutral, with the clutch released, and goes away when you depress the clutch, you have possible issues with the gearbox/clutch mechanism. The first thing I would do in this case is to check the oil level in the box. If the oil level is ok, and the noise is definitely coming from the gearbox, I would then drain the oil and see if there are traces of metal in the oil.

Also, while you are under the car, (with it properly on stands and wheels chocked, of course..), start it and let it idle and use a mechanics stethescope/screwdriver to pinpoint the position of the noise in the clutch/gearbox area. (you put the handle of the screwdriver to your ear and stick the sharp end onto the box in various places, you will soon tell where the noise is the loudest. I think Repco sell the mechanics stethescope if you want hi-tech.. )

One other option is that the clutch release bearing is collapsing. This noise is normally obvious with the clutch released, and will quieten/go away when you depress the clutch pedal. This is why you should try to determine where the noise is coming from, will give you a clue as to whether it is gearbox or clutch.

I doubt if the rotor/dizzy cap would be causing this noise. What do you mean by knackered? Are the contacts burned? If the cap/rotor are shorting the spark to earth intermittantly, it could cause the car not to rev and not allow the car to run smoothly. This could increase with rpm. Look for signs of tracking and use a multimeter on the rotor (with it installed) to check for leakage to earth. Check that the HT leads are the correct resistance, if these are reading high, can cause the dizzy/rotor to burn significantly as the spark struggles to get away.

Will