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scottr

Sport or non-sport tires for a larger sporty-but-not-quite-sporty sedan?

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Hi all, got a question re: tire choice and I'm interested to hear people's opinions/experiences with the issue I've just faced for the first time ever.

We've been buying sports tires for the e46 for many years (Eagle F1 asym2, then RE002, and now RE003). Also had decent sports tires on the 550i as well.  All the cars I've owned since I started working have been dressed in decent sports tires.

We'd sold the 550i so we could conjure enough money to buy a house and bought a v6 3.5 litre vtec Honda Accord to replace it.  I've ended up with the e46 as a daily driver and my wife's now doing the school/shopping runs in the Honda.

The tires on the Honda are rubbish early-model ecopia's with hard/cracking rubber and one's now sprung a leak.  They're getting replaced with michelin pilot sport 4's tomorrow as I was keen to try something other than bridgestone (haven't been happy with the wear rates of the RE00x's) and michelin had a buy 3 get 4 deal on at hyperdrive.

When I checked out the size (225/50/17)'s i noticed that the Pilot Sport 4's were the cheapest tire available for that size by michelin. An alternative would've been the Primacy 3 (ST)'s which are very near in price (slightly more), although seem quite a different tire.  The prices for Primacy tires then go up from there.

We'd gone for the PS4's as we're keen for a more direct/sporty feel for the car over comfort and longevity, but I can't help but wonder what's really the difference between the two types of tires WRT to grip and feel on a larger and less sporty car, and why the Primacy tires are so expensive in comparison.

Has anyone flipped between the two types of tires (Primacy and Pilot Sports), and if so what was the experience?  Apparently the Primacy 3 tires are OEM for 5 and 7 series BMW's, as well as S-Class Mercedes and Audi A6's. 

Thanks!

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what are you doing to the re002  

my ba falcon has about 50000k on the set i fitted a few years back.

x2 need to be replaced in the very near future. 

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Nothing more than normal driving on them. They lasted a bit over half as long on the front as the f1 asym2’s did. Ended up putting re002’s on the rear when the rears needed replacing as no f1 asym2’s were available, so put re002 on the front to match when the asym2’s wore out. As time’s moved and the tires have worn on both front and rear have bumped up seperately to re003.

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The reality is that in normal driving conditions we don't come within acres of a tyre's ultimate performance. Unless they're squealing in pain as you go around corners, breaking traction in a straight line, locking up under braking or aquaplaning then you're well within their performance envelope. If none of these happens you've probably got more tyre than you need.

I got cheap-arse Pirelli "Dragon Sports" on my 328 and even they're 'more tyre' than your average driver needs, wet or dry. They're not particularly quite though so that's a compromise.

On the other hand, I can make the F1's on my M3 scream in pain and appreciate the reassurance they provide. Different driving though.

 

Edited by M3AN

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Agree that most decent tires are overkill for day-to-day driving. I tend to buy them for those scary moments on the road when you really need them, more so now that I've got a couple of kids.

I've got the PS4's on the Honda now.  They're surprisingly quiet and have a fairly soft ride given what they are.  The sidewalls also look more forgiving than (although not as nice as) the RE003's which are very square and firm. 

Overall I think putting the PS4's on the Honda was a good idea. I was concerned about the firmness and road-noise which is why i was also considering the Primacy's.  I don't think the PS4's are too firm or noisy for a larger less-sporty car (as I've experienced with the RE003's in the e46).  Hope others find this useful.

Edited by scottr
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2 hours ago, scottr said:

...I tend to buy them for those scary moments on the road when you really need them...

Good stuff.

It's a pity that most drivers in NZ would find their skills fail well before their tyres came into the equation. Most people don't even use the steering wheel once they've hit the picks, ABS or not. Argh, panic, crash! CTRL-Z.

Edited by M3AN
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3 hours ago, scottr said:

 I tend to buy them for those scary moments on the road when you really need them,

this.......

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I have Primacy on the back of the E38 and to be honest have been really impressed with them, they have had a fair bit of stick as well, I have RE003s on the work Falcon and find them slightly noisier but a great grip tyre andlikely will look to keep again as I run 35k a year in this.

The 740 has burnt through rears in the past, at 6k for one set :ph34r:. These are standing up well in comparison. Closing on 10k and still plenty of life.

my talent runs out before the grip has so far also ....

 

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17 hours ago, Breaker said:

I have Primacy on the back of the E38 and to be honest have been really impressed with them, they have had a fair bit of stick as well, I have RE003s on the work Falcon and find them slightly noisier but a great grip tyre andlikely will look to keep again as I run 35k a year in this.

The 740 has burnt through rears in the past, at 6k for one set :ph34r:. These are standing up well in comparison. Closing on 10k and still plenty of life.

my talent runs out before the grip has so far also ....

 

Hi, thanks for the feedback re: the Primacy’s. You think you’d get them again, or go for something different next time?

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5 hours ago, scottr said:

Hi, thanks for the feedback re: the Primacy’s. You think you’d get them again, or go for something different next time?

Yip at this stage I’d get them again

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Pretty low tech tyre discussion ??

Primacy is a touring tyre with a higher load rating and  designed to last longer - have them on my Saab, pretty good but can be provoked into  loosing grip in the wet 

Pilot sport 4 is a performance tyre generally at lower load ratings and has a higher wear rate - have these on my 328 - very hard to get them to unhook in any condition. 

I'd put the PS 4's on the Saab over the primacy but they don't come in a 95 + load rating in a 215/45/17

If you are not on the edge regularly how do you know where it is and how to deal with it?? 

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1 hour ago, 3pedals said:

If you are not on the edge regularly how do you know where it is and how to deal with it?? 

Most people don't have private roads nor can afford the track time to do that responsibly.

Is there another way?

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12 hours ago, M3AN said:

Most people don't have private roads nor can afford the track time to do that responsibly.

Is there another way?

most appear to do it by fitting cheap chinese tyres however they only get half the deal - they find the edge but crash before learning to deal with it 

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On 1/13/2018 at 6:45 PM, 3pedals said:

Pretty low tech tyre discussion ??

Primacy is a touring tyre with a higher load rating and  designed to last longer - have them on my Saab, pretty good but can be provoked into  loosing grip in the wet 

Pilot sport 4 is a performance tyre generally at lower load ratings and has a higher wear rate - have these on my 328 - very hard to get them to unhook in any condition. 

I'd put the PS 4's on the Saab over the primacy but they don't come in a 95 + load rating in a 215/45/17

If you are not on the edge regularly how do you know where it is and how to deal with it?? 

Hi, wasn't after a high-tech discussion only people's experience on the feel of the difference between the two on the same car.

The PS4s i got a load rated 98 in 225/50/17. I remember seeing the words 'high load' on the side as they were being fitted.

Edited by scottr

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On 1/9/2018 at 11:35 PM, scottr said:

This is what you asked:

Has anyone flipped between the two types of tires (Primacy and Pilot Sports), and if so what was the experience?  Apparently the Primacy 3 tires are OEM for 5 and 7 series BMW's, as well as S-Class Mercedes and Audi A6's. 

Thanks!

and this is my reply: 

Primacy is a touring tyre with a higher load rating and  designed to last longer - have them on my Saab, pretty good but can be provoked into  loosing grip in the wet 

Pilot sport 4 is a performance tyre generally at lower load ratings and has a higher wear rate - have these on my 328 - very hard to get them to unhook in any condition. 

so I drive on both tyes every day /week - which is in line with your query - I was dismissing comments from others which do not address your query and who do not have direct experience 'flipping' between the two specific tyres.

I'd put the PS 4's on the Saab over the primacy but they don't come in a 95 + load rating in a 215/45/17

I doubt that the Honda would feel very good on 98 load rated tyres - they have a stiffer case to manage the weight of lardy mercs and 5 series BMW's 

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Hi, appreciate your response, although not the same car it’s a good experience-driven description of the difference between the two.

re: the loading. The Honda weighs 1620kg and is just under 5m long which puts it on-par with the 5 series range. It’s the 3.5 v6 vtec model which is the larger of the two (not the Smaller ‘Euro’ model). 

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True, it is not the same car but it is the exact same size of tyre (on the front) and it is the same road and same conditions, plus I drive everything from a 200kg 90kW motorbike to an 18 tonne truck  and the Saab has been "improved with stiffer sway bars, springs and Koni shocks so it is not your average slush mobile. 

Fair comment on the weight - that would definitely push you up to a 95  load rated tyre- I used to run 97's on the front of our E39 528 and 95 (load rated)  on the rear  and  the 528 was the same weight as the Saab. going higher than 95 on the front of the Saab makes for a rather wooden feel , I suspect the same would be true with the Honda. 

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