Turbo M50 in E30

[ED1RTY 2]

As I have had no serious interest in my E30 I am leaning towards keeping it.

I had pretty much decided that an M52 2.8 would be a good conversion.

Although after driving several turbo vehicles lately I am wanting a Turbo.

Basically I have access to a M50 2.5 turbo race engine. It was built in Germany and imported to NZ for a race car.

It does not come with the turbo or associated plumbing but does have the Turbo manifold, it has been built with heavy boost in mind, is fully forged and has alot of aftermarket bits in it, basically the motor is brand spanking new.

Now ive done some research in overseas forums and noticed that M50 turbo's in an E30 are generally a VERY tight fit. I am wanting to know how easily it can be done, and if there will have to be any major chassis modifications.

Also does anybody have a contact that could carry out the installation for me at an agreed price. (Not hourly, as it will end up costing SH!TLOADS!) Depending on feedback I will more than likely be purchasing the motor in about 3 months.

I'd like to hear peoples opinions on this.

Cheers

Chris

Also, Josh, seeing as the S50 Turbo conversion you are doing is very similar id appreciate any links you have relating to this topic.

[hybrid 1044]

Things to think about before making the decsion. With this type of conversion, there are 101 ways to skin a cat. Many solutions to one problem. All have there benefits vs cost. It up to you what you want to spend.

Also set a target and stick to it, For me; my target changed 3 times (m20 turbo, m50 turbo then s50 turbo)

How much realistic power do you want from the engine. This is a big factor in the cost, as everything starts getting very expensive. If you want the car as a daily driver, I wouldnt do more than 500rwhp As it really does get stupidly expensive after this. Great thing is .. you have access to the purpose built engine! nice start!

Sump, brake's / suspension / drive train / ECU / bracing (or roll cage) Tieing your diff to your cage / brace. Plumbing. at least a 325 manual gearbox (strength). 5 lug conversion?

In the engine bay / It will fit if you cut into the fire wall around the tunnel .. basically just shaving it.

The stuff we have is more around specific solutions to our problems we faced, IE brakes vs the 5 lug conversion.

Can post up some of the points of interest. Best site thats actually not full of kids is e30tech.com and e30zone.co.uk ... there are a couple of people doing s50 conversion on there that we have been following.

here are some picutres I use for "goals"

What it will exactly look like.

[ED1RTY 2]

Thanks Josh,

Basically, the engine with the turbo specified for it is good for 500bhp, id be happy with 350-400.

I'd stay 4 lug, but do a BBK on the front, looking at spending around 10-15k including the base motor which is 3.5k, cage would definatly be on the cards, other wise the car will be remaining as is.

Keep it coming guys.

[Andrew 30]

Are you buying a daily driver?

Will you be able to race it?

I found (personally) cars that have that much power are useless on the road and less fun than a 325/m3.

[ED1RTY 2]

I dont need a daily anymore as im working in the city and use the train every day + the missus has a run around so I can always use that

Im planning on working here for a while so thats why I have come to the decision of taking it off the road, pulling finger out and doing it.

Im sick of all my mates jappas and holdens pissing on me everywhere I go. Time for a change of circumstances I think

Andrew ill be hopefully racing if they decide to make the BMW Unlimited Class, if not I will just be doing Open days and Drags (1/4 Mile) + using it as a weekend car.

[hybrid 1044]

Are you buying a daily driver?

Will you be able to race it?

I found (personally) cars that have that much power are useless on the road and less fun than a 325/m3.

Traction and suspension work and its fine. Hes already running 9 inch wheels not 7inch biscuits.

There are plenty of two wheel drive vehicles running this sort of power. Alot of it has to do with power delivery vs traction as you well know.

350-400 is a good 'safe' rwhp option for what you are wanting to do chris. You will still have a lot of fun

you will probably looking at a gt35/40 size turbo for that sort of power. A GT40r is too big.

You'll be looking at around 18-19psi for that. With a boost threshold of 3500-4k RPM.

[ED1RTY 2]

GT 35/40 is possibly slightly bigger than what I had in mind, have been looking into the Schwitzer (sp) brand of turbos, as they have proven reliability on these kinds of set-up's although that advice has been taken on board.

Will be running same management system as you Josh.

[hybrid 1044]

nice, if you have vanos .. you can actually control it properly

[Andrew 30]

Josh: I more mean you can't do 150 or 300 kph on the road. So why have that power? It is more fun ringing out a car with less power when driving. A boost threshold of 3500/4000 RPM in my view is not a fun driver. The 318 is around 2000 RPM and that is still irritating.

Chris: There won't be a BMW unlimited class in the near future. Why not just S50 your car? It will be quicker than all your mates holdens/jappas. N/A is MUCH better to drive than turbo - fullstop. You'll save a tonne of cash and gain heaps of reliability.

[Andrew 30]

Coming to think of it - if I were you Chris i'd buy an E36 m3 for a fun car and E30 series your car.

I'd put money a series car would be way more fun than a 400hp E30 on the road.

[ED1RTY 2]

Ive thought about it.....

Basically I just want turbo, i've never owned one before and I think it would be a radical buzz.

I value you opinion Andrew but its just such a hard decision to make.

[hybrid 1044]

Josh: I more mean you can't do 150 or 300 kph on the road. So why have that power? It is more fun ringing out a car with less power when driving. A boost threshold of 3500/4000 RPM in my view is not a fun driver. The 318 is around 2000 RPM and that is still irritating.

Chris: There won't be a BMW unlimited class in the near future. Why not just S50 your car? It will be quicker than all your mates holdens/jappas. N/A is MUCH better to drive than turbo - fullstop. You'll save a tonne of cash and gain heaps of reliability.

you had full boost at 2000rpm?!? ... I want one of those, where do I get one!

An N/A s50 would be a good choice also. You can easily make a reliable turbo setup if you spend the money in the right areas. If you have access to this engine you are talking about, your most of the way there I say do it if your ready for a bit of work and prepared to spend the money. Remember, when its all over .. your not going to get the money back ever.

But yeah man, do it. Come see brendon and myself when its time to buy stuff... have a detailed look at our setup and base your decsions off what we have done (also learn from a few minor mistakes we faced)

[Gus 5]

yeah, i would S50 n/a it..would still be farking quick, and might actually have usable power...reliable too, and cheaper?

having said that the s50 aint easy to come by..M52 would be cool too...be heaps of fun usable power, not the quickest thing in the world but meh

anyway i know your gonna do what you want anyway haha just keep in mind that its kinda like throwing money away..

[ED1RTY 2]

Remember, when its all over .. your not going to get the money back ever.

This is why I have basically decided to do it.

I have realised I am not going to be able to sell the car for what I want so I may as well get the thing going like crazy and keep it forever.

Spoke to the guy with the engine last night, its completely plumbed for a turbo (Oil/water feed lines etc) Its a fully crazy M50. The car will be coming off the road around November.

Cant wait.

Also, Josh are you using Getrag 260? Will one of these be able to handle 400+HP?

[hybrid 1044]

nice

No we are using a ZF 5 speed gearbox from a 95 m3 / m-coupe. However a good getrag 260 is more than fine at this range of power.

[Andrew 30]

you had full boost at 2000rpm?!? ... I want one of those, where do I get one!

An N/A s50 would be a good choice also. You can easily make a reliable turbo setup if you spend the money in the right areas. If you have access to this engine you are talking about, your most of the way there I say do it if your ready for a bit of work and prepared to spend the money. Remember, when its all over .. your not going to get the money back ever.

But yeah man, do it. Come see brendon and myself when its time to buy stuff... have a detailed look at our setup and base your decsions off what we have done (also learn from a few minor mistakes we faced)

Boost threshold is not when full boost comes on - it is the point at which the turbo starts to generate any boost.

Fair enough Chris - I'm not knocking your idea, just giving you my thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I love Josh's car it's TFB and yours would be badass also. It's just not my cup of tea and I have a racecar that I can spend money on which is ultimately more rewarding for me.

[ED1RTY 2]

nice

No we are using a ZF 5 speed gearbox from a 95 m3 / m-coupe. However a good getrag 260 is more than fine at this range of power.

Cool, I know of a 260 sitting in a car in a paddock, might have to go rip it out, its only going to cost me $200 and the labour of getting it out.

Will get a partial rebuild, synchros etc.

[hybrid 1044]

yes andrew, you have mis understood me .. anyhoo ..

RE: 260 getrag, plenty of people still running the standard running gear, Its not like its going to break when you boost it.

Repedative launching from 5000rpm on the drag strip is the killer. The splines are designed to be the weakest link. Its not all over rover if you do one either they are replaceable parts.

Is the gearbox going to last as long as if it where in a stock car, ofcorse not, but youll have plenty of time on it none the same.

Around the reliablilty issue, its as reliable as you want it to be. If done properly there is no reason it wont last as long as a modded N/A car. The whole turbos are un-reliable debate is pretty tiresome and is put down to fear and a big mis-understanding around the topic. Brendon has a rather modded GSR 1.8ltr (non EVO) doing around 350 hp. The car is at the limits of its stock internals and has been running trouble free like this for 3 years. Keeping up your maintanence intervals and not cheaping out around the parts the matter is key. It always has been and always will be.

Its like you wouldnt take a standard WRX rallying and expect it not to break.

Think about it, build it right with smart choices on where you spend your money and you will be fine chris. It will also be one hell of a car And you can be proud you did it with a marque engine.

[ED1RTY 2]

You are right there Josh, the thought of having any shape or form of Japanese engine in my E30 makes me cringe.

Basically the motor is really strong (Good for 500-600hp) im going to be running less than the reccomended boost which in turn should give it a slighlty longer life and reliability.

As far as turbo hardware goes (BOV, Wastegates etc) what would be the go brands? Im thinking TIAL etc.

What are you using? Also im leaning towards external wastegate plumbed back into the system. Would this be benificial for boost threshold? I dont have an air con radiator so there is no worries about room for an intercooler.

+ when you said I may need to shave some off the tunnel, would it still be needed if running the Getrag 260? If i remeber correctly when Gary did his conversion it went straight in. Correct me if im wrong please Josh.

[bravo 35]

In terms of tunnel shaving, perhaps that is to push the motor back for better weight distribution and to give you more room for a decent fan and for IC and IC piping. (cooling utmost importance on boosted cars).

Wastegate is there so that you don't overboost the engine - vents exhast gas either back into the system or to the atmosphere (illegal in nz). Controlled by the boost controller (manual or electronic). Shouldn't affect how fast you get boost.

P.S> I'm no FI expert - in fact I'm a total n00b, but I have been looking at boosting my m20, so have done a fwe hours research lately.

Edited August 17, 2007 by bravo

[hybrid 1044]

hehe .. it mostly bolts up, you just have to look into the sump situation and the top of the rocker cover eats into the firewall a little bit .. just need to shave a little off the firewall foam. its no major and well documented in various build threads.

[Surge 1]

Good choice on the motor and the idea of turbocharging it...

Check out pure-pf.com for parts, I'm getting the bulk of my bits from there for my 2.8 litre m50 turbo conversion (unless someone knows anywhere else cheaper locally)

Limmet.se is good also.. even the zatzy.com forums - translate with bablefish.

In terms of room the only thing which really gets in the way is the steering linkage, but that can be worked around, if the turbo is top mounted towards the front of the engine you will be fine - you could run a charge pipe out the hole where the a/c condenser used to sit.

Hybrid, there's a turbocharged Mcoupe 20metres from where I work... I'll endeavour to get some pics of it.

[Andrew 30]

+ when you said I may need to shave some off the tunnel, would it still be needed if running the Getrag 260? If i remeber correctly when Gary did his conversion it went straight in. Correct me if im wrong please Josh.

Didn't Gary use the M50 box?

It doesn't fit - you need to bend the gearlinkage or do the mod like I did to my Getrag 260 on the turbo.

[Surge 1]

Holes need to be tapped on the Getrag 260 swell - it's not an 100% fitment, they are mounted slightly on an angle (less than 30 degrees) - thus like Andrew said, the Gearlinkage needs a bend in it.

[hybrid 1044]

Hybrid, there's a turbocharged Mcoupe 20metres from where I work... I'll endeavour to get some pics of it.

Yeah thanks, if you can get some details around the setup too would be awesome just nice to see others.

RE: gearbox .. I'm not sure about the getrag fitment so am no help there We are running a ZF m3 5spd