sweetm3 180 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) Hi all, Lucky me I'm off to the states early next year and I'm looking for some informed opinions. Why the upgrade because I enjoy the few times a year I get on the track (want to be able to go over the hill faster) and as I'm in the states the prices are cheaper and I would kick myself next time I was at Pukie. 1/ Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers F4-GM5-B567-HO @ $ 1395.00-1500.00 US NZ Quote $6500.00 2/ Ground Control Street Kit $999.00 US (using ex housing) 3/ Ground Control E36 Track / School, (Complete Front Assemblies) $1489.00 4/ Koni 1150-5023 $ 1254.06 US Quoted $ 3800NZ (requires modification to rear towers) As this sort of upgrade is new to me would I also require? Reinforcement plates and adjustable camber plates? Any insight would be great Edited September 19, 2007 by sweetm3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1043 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 Give performalink a phone and say your from bimmersport. I got a great discount on my v2 KW coilovers for my e46 for about 3kNz incl GST. 6500 seems a bit naff for pss9's .. I was qouted 4500 retail for the e46 kit. Around the camber thing, it is worth while but not needed unless your going down quite low. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 Give performalink a phone and say your from bimmersport. I got a great discount on my v2 KW coilovers for my e46 for about 3kNz incl GST. 6500 seems a bit naff for pss9's .. I was qouted 4500 retail for the e46 kit. Around the camber thing, it is worth while but not needed unless your going down quite low. Will check out KW Just received a quote from Autolign for PSS9 $5500+GST Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 Hi all, Lucky me I'm off to the states early next year and I'm looking for some informed opinions. Why the upgrade because I enjoy the few times a year I get on the track (want to be able to go over the hill faster) and as I'm in the states the prices are cheaper and I would kick myself next time I was at Pukie. 1/ Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers F4-GM5-B567-HO @ $ 1395.00-1500.00 US NZ Quote $6500.00 2/ Ground Control Street Kit $999.00 US (using ex housing) 3/ Ground Control E36 Track / School, (Complete Front Assemblies) $1489.00 4/ Koni 1150-5023 $ 1254.06 US Quoted $ 3800NZ (requires modification to rear towers) As this sort of upgrade is new to me would I also require? Reinforcement plates and adjustable camber plates? Any insight would be great Also look at the TC Kline stuff from the US, they do a nice DA Koni kit (double adjustable) but I think its a bit more $$$ but the rear shocks are top adjustable. Thing to watch with the GC kits is the short rear springs aren't always captive (depending on what rate & length you go for), doesn't seem to be an issue for the US guys but is a LEGAL requirement here for your WOF. You can do something with the strut tops on the E36 M3 (swap left to right?) to get more camber but the GC complete front kits has Camber plates from memory. I think the Koni kit you mention last is what I got (only used the fronts & on-sold the rest), but it was almost half the NZ price you are quoting, I gather it is through stocks? When I got mine they were the last they had instock so may have been heavily discounted to "move" them?? Also remember these are all cert plate mods you are thinking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rick James Report post Posted September 19, 2007 GAZ are an option too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 TC Kline DA Coilover Kit very nice but at...............$2258.15 US V2 KW priced online @ $1975.00 US (same setup as Koni would require modification to rear towers) So I'm back to my 1, 2, 3 options Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 TC Kline DA Coilover Kit very nice but at...............$2258.15 US V2 KW priced online @ $1975.00 US (same setup as Koni would require modification to rear towers) So I'm back to my 1, 2, 3 options TC Kline also do a SA kit @ $1618 US Does it say what needs to be done to the rear towers?? I have never heard of an mods req'd in this area for aftermarket "replacement" shocks. Unless they are converting the rear to coilovers, but I would be very surprised if they were. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) Your right that a couple of these systems mentioned are rear coilover. My comments about the modification to rear towers are taken from my chat with the guys at Stocks. When I asked about the different Koni set ups. How things stand PSS9 Coil-Over Suspension Kit - Ease of use-adjustability front & rear- cost Ground Control E36 Track / School, (Complete Front Assemblies) $1489.00 but add another $100US to have top adjustment on rears.( I?m lazy don?t want to have to jack the car up to adjust) Ground Control Street Kit $999.00 US (using ex housing) Difference between these & Track/School-Spring rates. So $490.00 saving if I use my existing housing. Less $ 100US for the top adjustment of course. Downside I would like to keep my existing suspension in tac so I can have more junk in my garage. It can keep my standard air box etc company. Edited September 19, 2007 by sweetm3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1043 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 I'm not one to condradict stocks as they defanitily know their sh*t. But aftermarket replacement coilovers should just bolt straight up ... Hell even my e30's ground control rear konis did and that was with offset top mounts. Sounds a bit fishy. I would actually email the companies in the states .. they dont bite .. and youll find they are more than helpful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Your right that a couple of these systems mentioned are rear coilover. My comments about the modification to rear towers are taken from my chat with the guys at Stocks. When I asked about the different Koni set ups. How things stand PSS9 Coil-Over Suspension Kit - Ease of use-adjustability front & rear- cost Ground Control E36 Track / School, (Complete Front Assemblies) $1489.00 but add another $100US to have top adjustment on rears.( I?m lazy don?t want to have to jack the car up to adjust) Ground Control Street Kit $999.00 US (using ex housing) Difference between these & Track/School-Spring rates. So $490.00 saving if I use my existing housing. Less $ 100US for the top adjustment of course. Downside I would like to keep my existing suspension in tac so I can have more junk in my garage. It can keep my standard air box etc company. I would be very suprised if ANY are TRUE coilover rears, in which case some serious strengthening mods would need to be done to the rear towers for them to not rip apart, even the front towers on E36's suffer fatigue & tear with firm springs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10hove 0 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Coil overs are onely really of any value if you want to jack the car up every week and mess about with the ride height e.g. track racing at different tracks. If you pick the best overall ride height and then chose a good spring rate and double adjustable KONI shocks you will get 99% of the performance with 5% of the drama. Stiffer springs in the front of an M 3 are less of an issue because they have an extra plate under the top mount to spread the load. You should also upgrade sway bars and mounts if you really intend to hiot the track hard- even look at adjustable bars I have double adjustables konis from stocks in my race car,and I am very happy with them. as the car is road legal Ive driven it on the road several times and it is definetely very streetable. The advantage of dealing with a company here is the support : they custom built my set up and they can rebuild or replace parts very easily. Grant is very helpful and they have heaps of experince with race cars and targa cars. I also think that the price is way better than and equvilant set up from overseas. your more than welcome to have a look at my set up some time if you want cheers hove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted September 20, 2007 Have I got this right? 3pedals when you mention Coilovers you mean all 4 corners (springs on top of housings) Your preferred option Double adjustable front Koni shocks “Front Coilovers”. Single adjustable rears. Rear springs to match. (say 25-30mm drop) Alex I’m heading south wed/thurs next week and it would be great to have a look at your setup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10hove 0 Report post Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) Have I got this right? 3pedals when you mention Coilovers you mean all 4 corners (springs on top of housings) Your preferred option Double adjustable front Koni shocks �Front Coilovers�. Single adjustable rears. Rear springs to match. (say 25-30mm drop) Alex I�m heading south wed/thurs next week and it would be great to have a look at your setup. weve retained the standard rear spring mounts but made up adjustable platform so we can adjust hieght your welcome to have a look cheers hove Edited September 21, 2007 by Alex ten Hove Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) Hi Guys Firstly thanks to all of you for your input, Alex thanks for taking the time to show me your setup. The story so far After a month or 2 of trolling through pages of different BMW forums, I came across a great write-up that compared PSS9, KW V2 and Ground Control. While I was on TradeMe and came across a 94 M3 for sale with the M3 suspension replaced with a Ground Control system and blow me down if it didn’t belong to another BMW club member. Brett had been in the process of setting his 94 M3 up for tracking, when he came across another BMW racecar for sale, with the full package already done. Hence the reason why his 94 M3 is for sale. Anyway I was invited to take his car for a drive and after a chat …….. I ordered today Complete Coil-over Kit, E36 Race (Or Serious Track) , (Completely Assembled) Description: 2 SHORT Koni single adjustable struts in Ground Control shortened strut housings Complete Shortened Front Strut Housing Machined from seamless DOM 1026 steel alloy tubing. Heavy-duty swaybar bracket welded on. Our design is much stronger and more rigid than any of the aftermarket housings that are actually modified stock housings, with skip-welded gussets and and all original brake line and abs tabs retained. Koni Single Adjustable Front Strut Struts are externally adjustable from underneath the hood, even with the factory strut brace. This strut is prepared for coil over use, and eliminates machining of critical suspension components . Click on the following 2 linksto learn why we don't cut threads in our strut housings. http://www.mate.calpoly.edu/mate450/MechanicalAspects2.htm http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/dec00/keeper.htm Ground Control Threaded Sleeves This system is designed to eliminate stress risers caused by machining notches into the strut housing. Unlike other companies that claim superiority by cutting threads into a critical component of the suspension, Ground Control uses engineering common sense to maximize the strength of the suspension. Ground Control Adjustable Spring Perch A unique design, which uses an Allen head bolt to clamp the single threaded perch into the correct position. No secondary pieces are needed to "jam" the threaded perch into position. 2 SHORT Koni single adjustable rear shocks Koni Single Adjustable Rear Shocks Made in Holland and custom valved to GC specs. Shorter than standard length, with reduced droop length. Preadjusted to match rear spring rates using our shock dyno. Adjusts from inside the trunk with no tools needed. (standard Koni must be removed to adjust) 1 Pair front Camber Plates Ground Control Racing Camber / Caster Plates More camber adjustment than stock, caster adjustment, aircraft bearings, engraved with calibrated degrees, with stainless steel reinforcement. Every component is anodized or plated, including fasteners. Adds extra travel to avoid excessive bottoming out, this is a very well engineered product. The stainless steel reinforcement prevents electrolysis between the steel fender and the aluminum camber plate. Camber and caster are separately adjustable by sliding the mounts, without removing any components from the car. The priority of this design is to allow fast, repeatable alignment changes at the track. The Ground Control camber plates feature two sets of bearings, a proprietary bearing, made to our specs by Aurora in the USA, which allows for articulation of the shock shaft. This spherical bearing is very understressed, as the Ground Control design does NOT support the weight of the car on the spherical bearing. Instead, the weight of the car is supported by a completely separate articulating needle bearing, which is also manufactured for Ground Control in the USA. 4 Eibach ERS springs, any racing spring rate 440F 550R Eibach Spring Any spring rate is available. Eibach springs are made on German machines both in the USA and in Germany, however all Eibach springs have a lifetime guarantee against sagging, rate change, or any manufacturing or material failure. Lifetime guarantee. Compare. 4 Ground Control bump stops (made in Germany) Ground Control Bump Stop We do not just ask you to reuse your stock bump. The stock bump stop is designed for stock suspension; we provide a bump stop designed to work with our suspension. These are soft foam, same quality as OE BMW parts, but made to our specs in Germany. Our race bump stops are even different than our street bump stops. 2 rear ride height adjusters Ground Control Rear Ride Height Adjustment Kit Billet aluminum threaded adjusters bolt on top of the rear control arm. The e36 M3 has a larger diameter rear axle than the standard e36, so it is necessary for clearance to not have any portion of the adjuster below the control arm. 1 Pair rear upper shock mounts (urethane) Ground Control Rear Shock Mount Billet aluminum, urethane bushings, pre-assembled. Includes gaskets and reinforcements. Edited November 1, 2007 by sweetm3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve R 0 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 nice set up, was the M3 you were talking about the arvus blue one on trademe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 nice set up, was the M3 you were talking about the arvus blue one on trademe? Arvus blue-Dark BlueIt's the one with $10,000 spent on the suspension. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuen 16 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 Avus Blue That car looks very nice. Good stuff mate post some pictures when you get yours installed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 Avus Blue That car looks very nice. Good stuff mate post some pictures when you get yours installed! Will be while away as it takes 1.5 weeks to put the package together. shipping delivery cost @ 220.00 US so I'd guess it won't be by air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve R 0 Report post Posted November 1, 2007 Arvus blue-Dark Blue It's the one with $10,000 spent on the suspension. i keep looking at that car and thinking its a mean deal...if only i wasnt poor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted November 16, 2007 Update Guys I hadn’t heard from Ground Control (order placed 16 days ago) so I emailed them enquiring as to what’s up. Now my neighbour has been in the states and is home today so I was getting their mail together when I noticed a letter address to me amongst theirs, open it up and it’s from NZ Customs …………. My new suspension is on hold till I pay the GST “letter was dated 6 Novemberâ€. Boy I could have had in in by now. So I should have some photos early next week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1043 Report post Posted November 16, 2007 hahaha ... We had some music software delivered from sweden to the house down the road .. lucky the people at the address where honest and didnt open it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) Looks to nice to put on....... Ye right. In hopefully some time this week and I will add some before and after photos Edited November 19, 2007 by sweetm3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuen 16 Report post Posted November 19, 2007 Looks to nice to put on....... Ye right. Honestly mate, they look like junk. I'll do you a favour and take them off your hands. Hurry up and put them on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PBOY23 0 Report post Posted November 19, 2007 i keep looking at that car and thinking its a mean deal...if only i wasnt poor +1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sweetm3 180 Report post Posted December 1, 2007 (edited) Well Guys I finally got them in, took me the best part of day. As the GC systems came with no instructions, first attempt dropped the car 55mm too low. As it is, the 100mm ground clearance is marginal. And as I was knacked, that will do till I replace some bushes and ball joints. Then I'll readjust them again and have the car balanced. Set up so far (guard to top of rim) Front were 120 117 Now 90 90 Rear were 89 88 Now 70 65 Had the alignment done, Front Toe +2.9 total, Camber -2, Caster +6 Rear Toe +2.7 total, Camber -2 Cost $ 2951.46 NZ dollar to my door including GST $ 70.00 Alignment $ 0 Installation Total $ 3021.46 Cert and Insurance still to go. The ride is firm and doesn’t rattle these old bones too much I’m really looking forward to taking her out to pukie. Edited December 1, 2007 by sweetm3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
