Fog Lights A No No

[ThreeOneEight 0]

I NEVER get blinded by STANDARD "FOGS", or driving lights. I get blinded by wanks who have EXTRA bright bulbs in that make there car look like they're driving with high-beams ON! Absoultey dangerous and annoying.

I agree with you. The front fog-lamps on most BMWs tend to be small and if adjusted to factory specification, downward facing, and I have never been dazzled by them. However, the large, usually round auxiliary lamps such as those seen on Subaru WRXs are far too bright, and I would not classify them as fog-lamps- they are plainly spot-lamps, which is a whole different kettle of fish altogether. Sadly, given that police officers, like traffic wardens, IRD auditors, and ACC assessors, are generally of too low intelligence to use discretionary judgment, they will fine you for it in any case.

I also find the raised headlamps on four wheel drive vehicles exceptionally annoying, much like the females and estate agents who inevitably drive them.

[bravo 35]

The law states you can use them in low visibility conditions. Rain is plainly a low-vis condition, the cop was wrong to fine you.

LTSA says:

Front fog lamps

Front fog lamps illuminate the road ahead in foggy conditions, both at night and during the day. They give off a short, wide beam of light that is designed to shine through the fog, lighting up the area directly in front of the vehicle and helping the driver see the sides of the road better.

Fitting requirements

* You may have up to two front fog lamps fitted to your vehicle. If your vehicle already has two front fog lamps fitted as original equipment, you cannot fit a second pair. Fog lamps should be wired so that they can be turned on or off independently of the headlamps.

* Front fog lamps must be white or amber in colour. When purchasing front fog lamps, it is your responsibility to ensure they meet approved standards and are designed for that specific purpose. If in doubt, consult a vehicle lighting retailer.

On the road

Fog lamps should only be used when visibility is severely reduced, eg by snow or fog. It is against the law to use fog lamps in clear conditions (day or night) as they can dazzle other road users.

Edited December 2, 2007 by bravo

[bravo 35]

Are the rear fogs really bright?

I didn't even know they did anything lol.

Following an e30 with its rear fogs on is a bloody nightmare - they are dazzling. Most Pugeots too.

[hybrid 1043]

what I dont understand is why doesnt the LTSA just make it a warrentable item on the head light alignment board ?

Pretty simple really, as most OEM's install them factory.

[Braeden320 0]

Reserch it HARD and if you are right which I think you are then, fight it - Write a detailed letter to the ticketing authoritys(address on the back of the ticket) and C/C it to your Local District Commander.

If you don't no who your local D/C is then ring the police station and ask.

The reason for doing the above is that he will have to follow it up,

State the facts and put them on notice in writing

They can't argue with fact.

Make sure you set it out well with good grammer.

Well, thats what I would do.If I was in the right.

[320guy 0]

Are the rear fogs really bright?

I didn't even know they did anything lol.

Yep, they are pretty bright, on E30's I know they are anyway.

Try it at night time some time, when theres no one behind you, turn them on and look back, they light up the road and all the road signs.

Alot brighter than brake lights.

[Nobimmer 694]

Lol mean new weapon.

Just write in a letter and print pretty much the whole thing that Bravo posted and say it was raining>crappy driving cond.

Like someone said,you can't argue with facts

[martyyn 2]

From experience Id say that all Euro cars have incredibly bright rear fog lights. They are for driving in the foggy conditions you get over there, I cant remember having seeing fog in NZ !

I also remember reading in the manual for my 750 that the rears should only be used in extreme conditions because they will dazzle drivers otherwise.

In the touring the switch resets itself once you switch them on, so that once you turn off the ignition they dont get left on by accident.

[cainchapman 0]

You obviously don't have the pleasure of driving in the Waikato Penry!

Winter is foggy for 9 months of the year.

[international 0]

From experience Id say that all Euro cars have incredibly bright rear fog lights. They are for driving in the foggy conditions you get over there, I cant remember having seeing fog in NZ !

I also remember reading in the manual for my 750 that the rears should only be used in extreme conditions because they will dazzle drivers otherwise.

In the touring the switch resets itself once you switch them on, so that once you turn off the ignition they dont get left on by accident.

Drive from Auckland to Hamilton early in the morning...before the sun comes out and its foggy like hell!....you cannot see sh*t at all...no jokes....Sometimes during the winter seasons up in Albany in North Shore also puts out small packets of fog, but nothing like what happens in Waikato...its pretty much like a sheet of fog blanket...

[ThreeOneEight 0]

Even closer to home, Martyn- try Eastbourne in mid-winter! It's hard to tell where the road meets the sea on a foggy day out here. Though I will agree, it doesn't have a patch on Yorkshire fog.

[kiwi535 538]

that is bullshit because PROPER FOG LIGHTS will NOT annoy other drivers...unlike the commydores,Impezas,lancers and 4wd DRIVING lights

[hotwire 352]

I can certainly vouch for fog in the mighty Waikato but your 9 months of the year is stretching the truth somewhat there .

On the fog light issue, yes illegal, but bullshit as when do you define the bad weather line?

Front fog lights (factory anyway) are a permanently dipped lamp that cast a knife like pattern of light immeadiately forward of the car - designed to cut underneath the fog & not "bounce" light back to the driver in foggy conditions.

When set CORRECTLY, like dip beam, they DO NOT dazzle oncoming drivers, regardless of weather / light conditions, the bulbs are only 55w too - the same as dip beam, no brighter but a different pattern of light.

Checking light output / glare on a beamsetter confirms this.

Problems arise when wankers put an uncontrolled lamp in their place (effectively a driving lamp) be it these little eyeball type lamps or sealed beam inserts into spoilers because they so happen to fit the hole. These lamps DO dazzle & are illegal, it is up to the WOF guys to enforce but a lot dont. OR the lights are incorectly set. I see it all the time at work

The law is if a lamp is fitted - it must work, & if it works - it must comply with regulations, just requires enforcement of this.

Yes they may be unecessary in good weather but if operating correctly it is of no issue & hardly a hanging offence.

As for rear fogs, these can be a pain in the butt when ingood weather as they use the same 21w bulb as the brakelights

& although the light looks slightly different due to difference in lense pattern between the two, it can be confusing at first glance. I bet in most cases the drivers are oblivious as to even having them on - most people I come across at work aren't even aware that the car has rear fog/s.

[isnowi 0]

Someone earlier quoted some ltsa legislation in regards to fog lights, further on from that peice is another entitled 'daytime running lamps' in this it gives another angle for defence, although i am not sure on the technical differences between foglights and daytime running lamps, i would imagine it is the light pattern output, but certainly worth a look.

I seem to recall the police themselves encouraging drivers to use some form of daytime running light over a recent(ish) holiday period.

[bravo 35]

Is to do with how they are switched. Daytime running lamps are supposed to automatically go off if the headlights are turned on so that you cannot have them and headlights on at once. Fog lamps can be operated independently of the headlamps.

The WOF manual spells it out in more detail and is on the LTSA website.

[jochen 4]

The thing is i've been driving with them ever since i've had this car, and i've had cars in the past with them and drove with them on and never had a problem till now.

You are not allowed to use rear fog lights if the visibility is good.

they are called fog lights for a reason :-)

So just because you have been ignoring the road rules and doing what you want, doesn't mean it is allowed.

The cop was right - you were wrong. Accept it and move on with life.

[jochen 4]

that is bullshit because PROPER FOG LIGHTS will NOT annoy other drivers...unlike the commydores,Impezas,lancers and 4wd DRIVING lights

Not true, I have been dazzled many times at night following someone with rear fog lights switched on in good clear night time visibility.

They are as dazzling as oncoming headlights

So please, if you have rear fog lights, use them in the fog only!

[jpp 0]

Not true, I have been dazzled many times at night following someone with rear fog lights switched on in good clear night time visibility.

They are as dazzling as oncoming headlights

So please, if you have rear fog lights, use them in the fog only!

teh main agruement is in regards to the front of the car, sub-discussion re: rear of the car.

[ThreeOneEight 0]

teh main agruement is in regards to the front of the car, sub-discussion re: rear of the car.

I usually have my front fog-lights on when my headlamps are operative, and my rear ones are always switched off. This is myself using aforementioned sound judgment, because I know the front lamps are angled downwards, whereas the rear fog-lamps are unspecific in their focus. Though they can be very useful for reversing into my garage if I want a bit more light.

[Beema3 0]

Interesting, I just got a ticket today & had them on, But i suppose the 29k's over the speed limit was more on the cops mind than my foggy's!

Anyway mine are always switched on (Not the rears), so they are on when my headlights are, I didnt even realise i could get a ticket for it, I cant say i have ever had a problem seeing with the standard BMW Fog lights are coming towards me, But having the rear fog light on & bright yellow ones on, are a real pain....

Fight It!

Edited December 2, 2007 by Beema3

[Greg111 13]

Hey guys,

Got a bit of a story to tell and would like to know if it's happened to anyone else.

Driving home late last night (it was raining lightly) from my brothers house on the motorway, was about 5 min in to the drive when i get pulled over by the police. He tells me "he pulled me over for having my Fog Lights on."

I questioned this and he said "we're having a crack down on people driving with their fog lights on, because it dazzles the other motorists." I said "what about the other 100 cars driving past with their fog lights on?" he replied "well sir we can only pull over one person at a time" and slapped me with a $150 fine.

Didn't know it was illegal to drive with fog lights on, have been doing it just about since i started driving.

Anyone else had a run in with the police over this?

The same thing happened to me a little while back, got let off with a warning, still i drove off with them on and thats how they stay.

[vanos 0]

Mine just failed WOF, because they don't work. I will take the easier road by removing them completely. Will have to design my own cavity covers though. Och Aye!

[Braeden320 0]

Mine just failed WOF, because they don't work. I will take the easier road by removing them completely. Will have to design my own cavity covers though. Och Aye!

Blown bulbs maybe or a loose connection?

I no that Yuen on this forum has a pair going for a very fair price.

I find the spotlights on my e36's make a big difference to driving at night

[oldskool 4]

what they _SHOULD_ be cracking down on is the n00bs that leave their euro rear fog lights on ... now thats a real hazard.

I'm with you 200% on that one, how many idiots drive euro's and have no idea that they even have rear fogs, this is a far more hazardous action than front fogs, and I practice the same activity of having front fogs on during the day whilst traveling on the open road.

As far as the ticketing above all other things, the officer that cleaned up the motorcyclists on the weekend had his focus on one thing and one thing only - Writing another ticket - how many people did the offending vehicle harm travelling at 111 km/h ??????

The current approach by the police regarding speed and alcohol is wearing very thin , when was the last time they looked at their own figures of deaths related to police chases, poor driving habits in police vehicles and lack of focus on the road due to focusing on quota's. I would suggest that it has risen remarkably in the last few years, the true figures would make interesting reading.

The road toll has increased again, yet police still maintain the same line, thinking needs to change.

Driver education, both public and police, greater driver training with advanced driving skills being taught, just because someone knows how to recover from a skid does not mean they will go out and do skids.

The desire to appeal to the lowest common denominator because it is easy and cost effective is false economy, we have massive costs associated with injury and death that will reduce in direct relation to the road toll and injury accidents.

Sorry having a rant, but I do wonder just when the attitiude toward true road policing will change, as it is just revenue gathering at present.

The saying goes - THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS TO CONTINUE DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS !!

Therefore does one take from this that the powers that be in the government and police that hand down these directives are insane, bears thinking about......

Grunta

[hybrid 1043]

Sorry having a rant, but I do wonder just when the attitiude toward true road policing will change, as it is just revenue gathering at present.

The one cracks me up is the ad on TV at the moment with the ford that pulls on the hand brake and rolls down a bank.

All that says to me is "don't buy a ford"

No but seriously ... red light jumping is one that needs a real look at .. thats actually very dangerous.