chompa 0 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 hey guys just after some info on what you think the best thing to transplant into a e21 is. looking at buying a e21 soon and would love 250-300hp out of it. dont want anything turbo and want to stay BMW powered.. wont want to spend over 10k but are interested in all the options.... cheers guys! liam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 oh and can someone PM on how to change "my ride" as i have sold my m3 a while ago now! been looking for ages under my controls and cant work it out, i know it will be something simple and stupid which is why i have waited so long to ask! thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 oh and can someone PM on how to change "my ride" as i have sold my m3 a while ago now! been looking for ages under my controls and cant work it out, i know it will be something simple and stupid which is why i have waited so long to ask! thanks fixed cheers peeps! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 1 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 (edited) IMO any BMW engine in that power range is going to be pretty expensive, and/or also quite heavy for an e21. I think the best bet might be an M52B28, easy enought to get over 200hp out of them and not too expensive. 200hp would still haul in an e21. If it were me I'd sacrifice the power and go for a higher revving 4 cyl like an M42, then think about forced induction if you were really lacking speed. Edited May 18, 2008 by Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conrod 1 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 M54B30, the 3.0 litre all aluminium 6 cyl engine in the E46. Makes 261hp std, might take some time to find one though. Otherwise, S50B30 or B32,(286 and 321hp respectively) again will take some time to find. Or you could always jam a BMW V8 in there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1039 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 You could get around 270bhp out of a stroked m20b25 in 3.1liter format with a bit (actually a lot) of head work. I think the best bet with be to go with conrads option of the m54b30 .. however they are only 232bhp mind you the torque down low is quite immense and will work well in a lighter car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pureboiracer 0 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 if your going to do it do it right. a nice 4l v8 out of a e39 would do the job Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Five Star 0 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 I don't think you're going to be able to do it for less than 10k. Have a look at this topic http://www.bmwe21.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1230 He chose a lexus v8 because of the price, yet I think he's still at least 15k down from it. Ask that e21 forum about it, they're the experts.. but I don't think that you'll be able to do it for less than 10k and it'll take you a long time.. It'll fly with a recent engine in there. They fly anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 1 Report post Posted May 18, 2008 You could get around 270bhp out of a stroked m20b25 in 3.1liter format with a bit (actually a lot) of head work. I think the best bet with be to go with conrads option of the m54b30 .. however they are only 232bhp mind you the torque down low is quite immense and will work well in a lighter car. That 270hp would be a big ask of an M20, if you were going to do all that work why not do it to a more modern motor? most of the modern motors are also an alloy block how big of a problem are the M54 electrics? I know its easy enough to run M52's in e30's with OBD1 conversions, is it the same deal with M54's? or just mod an M52 to M54 power levels? (probably same cost overall?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 Thanks guys! m54b30 sounds great but im a bit worried about how much work would be involved. dont know much at all about this motor and realize its not going to be as simple as an e30 transplant. will i need to alter the firewall/widen tunnel at all? ideally would love to go with a tried and tested setup but wont sacrifice performance too much. should i find a m54b30 and box how much would you expect it too set me back? 5k ish? and how complex would the electrics be? would a full custom loom be needed as i wouldnt know the first place to start regarding that and would need to pay a sparky.... (big $$??) thanks again! cheers fivestar for the e21 forum too! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BM WORLD 1264 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 mate just buy this one and stick it in , loads of torque and power . trade me a mate of mine , goes like $#&^%*&^ very scary pulls in 4th gear like most cars in 1st gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr E34 11 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 hey guys just after some info on what you think the best thing to transplant into a e21 is. looking at buying a e21 soon and would love 250-300hp out of it. dont want anything turbo and want to stay BMW powered.. wont want to spend over 10k but are interested in all the options.... cheers guys! liam NO TURBO/STAY BMW POWER/250-300HP??????MMMmmm STOCK MODERN 6 cyl, NOT ENOUGH POWER STOCK M 6 cyl, POWER BUT COST. ANSWER: ONLY STOCK BMW V8, ALL THE ENGINE DEVELOPMENT DONE FOR YOU COURTESY OF BMW DESIGN. Alpina put one in the E36. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kerrynzl 3 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 Do you want a sensible aproach that'll get close to 250hp , your $10 grand should leave plenty of change. Buy this on trade-me : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=155709586 thats a M54B30TE shortblock , I believe the head has been "accident damaged" then go and buy a M50B25 non-vanos complete engine with loom and DME [ approx $750 ] Head gasket $125.00 Head bolts $50.00 New waterpump $85.00 Skim the head $60.00 Then swap the whole top end over to the M54 shortblock. [ or rotating assembly into the M50 engine, as I've done ] You'll end up with a 3.0 engine with the 2.5 intake , Bosch DME [ tuneable ] OBD1 , dual valve springs & higher lift longer duration cams. Add to this a good set of headers, move the intake cam to the exhaust and get a new custom intake cam. If you can do the labour yourself this should about $3,000.00 and get close to 250hp and be reliable in traffic My advice: priceless Haha! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topcat 11 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) mate just buy this one and stick it in , loads of torque and power . trade me a mate of mine , goes like $#&^%*&^ very scary pulls in 4th gear like most cars in 1st gear And the good thing is 1,it will drop straight in.hangon e21 is a 3 series(?),might require small mods,well documented 2.It will leave you with a spare 2k+ out of 10k budget. 3.every thing is done and has traveled aprox 3000 relaiable km's 4.the tune was and is still pig rich,so more hp/torque is definatly on the cards PM me, this upgrade as great in my e28,will be even better in a e21. Edited May 20, 2008 by topcat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topcat 11 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) another way is; i've got a early e23 3L block with a tidy head,and a big 4 barrel carby to boot. fit a hot cam,280 schrik or more (300-320) and have yourself round the 220-250hp add some headers and be done for less then 4k be hearing from you Edited May 20, 2008 by topcat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr E34 11 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) I posted this E21 article a while ago, have a read if you missed it. http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....showtopic=15694 The problem with your wish list is power, 250-300 hp is a lot from N/A. Costs $$$, + the rest of drive train has to support this power. M3 2.5 ltr BMW Motorsport Race Engine, NICE! pure racing history, NOTE the SLIDER throttle plate for min obstruction @ full throttle. Edited May 20, 2008 by mr E34 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 wow thanks guys, looks like a few options but maybe my power figures are a little unrealistic for NA it seems? i know of someone running 240hp on standard e21 running gear-is it a case of WHEN he breaks something or IF? how much power before i need to look at driveline?? now all i need is to find a decent e21! anyone?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E30-323ti 66 Report post Posted May 20, 2008 If it were me, I'd be doing a FI M10 or M42, a relaxed 250whp should be pretty easy & pleasant to drive on the road. If it's a car you plan to use in the BMW race series (or just a non-FI purist) I'd be looking at a M50B25 or M52B28 engine (or as kerry mentioned build-up that M54 on TM), as they are not much heavier than the M20 some E21's came with and at a realistic price (unlike the S50's). Even so 250whp is going to require some $$. Not that I'm against the M30, they are a good "cheap" upgrade, but if you have the $$ the M5* engines are a better solution. Getrag 260's & 188 diff's are plenty to handle the levels of power you are talking about (Stock E30 gear). From the ETK it looks like the E21 had a 245 & maybe a 168 sized diff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drifty325i 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Just get a GOOD Lexus v8 like me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Five Star 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 You'll need to change a lot more than just the engine. Finding a good e21 is a bit hard.. I've always got my eye out. Like I said, I'd ask the guys who've actually done the conversion before. I've got a feeling it's not as easy as you're thinking it's going to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 If it were me, I'd be doing a FI M10 or M42, a relaxed 250whp should be pretty easy & pleasant to drive on the road. If it's a car you plan to use in the BMW race series (or just a non-FI purist) I'd be looking at a M50B25 or M52B28 engine (or as kerry mentioned build-up that M54 on TM), as they are not much heavier than the M20 some E21's came with and at a realistic price (unlike the S50's). Even so 250whp is going to require some $$. Not that I'm against the M30, they are a good "cheap" upgrade, but if you have the $$ the M5* engines are a better solution. Getrag 260's & 188 diff's are plenty to handle the levels of power you are talking about (Stock E30 gear). From the ETK it looks like the E21 had a 245 & maybe a 168 sized diff not planning to use it in the race series atm but may look towards that at some stage. never been a fan of FI although a good supercharger could tempt me...thats why im leaning towards the m54b30 as ESS tuning look like they have some great kits for cheap ish.. this is bound to have people disagree and they are prob right but i cant help but have the feeling a turbo is just a extra thing to "break" and be rebuilt. friends have always have probs trying to turbo cars...can they be built as reliable as NA? and will a 168 diff handle 270 hp? Thanks! liam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 Just get a GOOD Lexus v8 like me guy in welly got a Lexus v8 in a e21, i want something abit different. he seems to be running e21 driveline too! just has custom five stud hubs? liam Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Five Star 0 Report post Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) Are you talking about the guy I linked you to? He's running a lexus engine, nissan dif, toyota gearbox, and the rest is custom. You'll need to upgrade your dif at least. There's a whole lot of options for that, most not expensive but time consuming. Edit - spelling Edited May 23, 2008 by Five Star Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompa 0 Report post Posted June 22, 2008 whats the difference between m54b30 short block and the long block? dumb question i think but would the short block be better for me in this (longterm) project......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 1 Report post Posted June 22, 2008 whats the difference between m54b30 short block and the long block? dumb question i think but would the short block be better for me in this (longterm) project......... long and short block is how complete the engine is. Short block will probably only be the block, crank, and piston assembly. Long block should have oil pan, head and all the valve train, and the block too. Long block may or may not include the other bits like manifolds and various pumps and alternator. Id just be after the most complete one you can find. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
