M42 Turbo

[320guy 0]

Cheaper to get a Link than Megasquirt???

I don't know about m42's, but with m20's Megasquirt is over $2000 cheaper

Err, I thought a link was like $1200? Not including a tune or installation of course, you would have to do that yourself with a megasquirt anywya.

[conrod 1]

No, just no.

My mate has a turbo m42, got it dynoed last month. 300whp.

Engine hasnt been opened, or messed with apart from a new head gasket. Yeah, you will need a stand alone to do it properly.

300whp would equate to 370 flywheel hp, using transmission losses of 19%, which is a typical number. Given that that a std M42 puts out 140hp, your mate would have to be running 26-28 pounds of boost to be making this sort of power.The calculations are not that hard to do. 16 pounds of boost will give you about 260 flywheel hp on a stock M42 (assuming it doesn't detonate on stock CR which I find very hard to believe) which would give about 210 whp.

Conrad

[320guy 0]

For a megasquirt, using brand new parts from diyautotune.com I came up with this.

This is pretty much bare minimum, probally missing a few small parts:

1 x MegaSquirt-II Engine Management System w/PCB3 - Assembled Unit

1 x JimStim MegaSquirt Stimulator with Wheel Simulator - Assembled

1 x 12' MegaSquirt Wiring Harness (MS1 / MS2 Ready)

5 x Fuel Injector Connector - Bosch EV1

1 x GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Connector

1 x Innovate Standalone Gauge Kit w\ LC-1 & Red DB Gauge

$829.75 USD

$50 or so for shipping I guess

= $879 USD

879 U.S. dollars = $1601NZD

Then 12.5% import tax makes it $1800. And the you still have to install it and tune it.

You can get a link locally cheaper than that.

[320guy 0]

300whp would equate to 370 flywheel hp, using transmission losses of 19%, which is a typical number. Given that that a std M42 puts out 140hp, your mate would have to be running 26-28 pounds of boost to be making this sort of power.The calculations are not that hard to do. 16 pounds of boost will give you about 260 flywheel hp on a stock M42 (assuming it doesn't detonate on stock CR which I find very hard to believe) which would give about 210 whp.

Conrad

Im not going to argue with this bullshit. You can do your maths, but its not taking into account all the other things that come into play.

There is no way you need to run that much boost to make 300hp, if you have to run that much, somthing is seriously wrong.

[antony 0]

Your Link base price of $1200 is irrelevant, as it doesn't include the extra equipment required for the Link to run the turbo. (Also think the latest Link is something around $2000.)

The guy mentions he's a student, if your on a budget and into it, Megasquirt is easy enough to install yourself. A Link isn't (and will cost over $2000 to be installed and tuned)

[320guy 0]

Why use the latest link when a older model will do the job perfectly fine for a lot less $?

[antony 0]

Why use a Link at all, if your on a budget? Still going to be atleast $3500 once installed and all parts bought.

Sorry to drag this out, but I'm a student too, and know what it's like trying to build a car on a budget.

But in saying all this, if you dont think your up to Megasquirt, maybe spending the extra on the link will save you in headaches.

[320guy 0]

Im a student aswell, and doubt I would have any problems building and installing a megasquirt.

Maybe $3500 if you get someone else to do it, but then again, if you get someone else to install the megasquirt its gonna be the same.

[conrod 1]

Im not going to argue with this bullshit. You can do your maths, but its not taking into account all the other things that come into play.

There is no way you need to run that much boost to make 300hp, if you have to run that much, somthing is seriously wrong.

There are no other things that come into play here, as you state it is a stock engine, therefore the maths is fairly easy. Being a student you probably read books don't you?? Pick up a good book on turbocharging and do some research before making stupid comments like that. The calculations are relatively easy to do, and very accurate. Then you will realise from whom the bullshit is coming from.

Edited November 27, 2008 by conrod

[Mike 1]

if i could put a copper gasket on there and lower the compression alittle then i should be able to run 10-12psi safely?

just remember you're trying to make power, not boost. lower the c/r was one of the worst things i did with mine. killed off boost performance too much (running 12psi)

As for Link vs MS: That MS price includes an LC-1 (you still need one to tune a link) and its all assembled. You dont need the stim if its all assembled. Also, why buy assembled? if you cant solder it up I doubt you have the capabilities to install and tune. just pay the $3.5k and go link. That said, the $NZ vs US has made MS a whole lot less affordable now, a 2nd hand link could easily be the best bang for buck out there.

BTW; Conrod's math is not bullshit. 300whp @ 16psi is very impressive from a stock M42. end of story.

[CamB 48]

Geez this thread is getting out of hand.

Link base price is $1500, plus a wideband and an air temp sensor, which would make it about $2k. I figured MS to be about 600-700 cheaper, like for like, but for my purposes the new Link series is way better (logging, better supported in NZ, etc). A lot of companies offer an installed and tuned price for Link - the installation and tuning of a MS would cost the same.

I'd love to see the dyno sheet of 320guy's mate - I believe it (why would he make it up?), but for 16psi of boost that's a pretty solid power figure. It could be the combination of parts - a GT30 is a big, efficient turbo, and with high compression it will have a high VE, and the bigger turbo and the wastegate setup it probably revs out quite well (not choked off like most turbo systems built for response)... I'd like to see where power was made.

To the original poster - re-read my first post in the thread about doubling any cost estimates.

(edit) Turbo calc (which I understand to be reasonably accurate for a well designed system):

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph....p;product_id=37

Edited November 27, 2008 by CamB

[mark247 39]

There are no other things that come into play here, as you state it is a stock engine, therefore the maths is fairly easy. Being a student you probably read books don't you?? Pick up a good book on turbocharging and do some research before making stupid comments like that. The calculations are relatively easy to do, and very accurate. Then you will realise from whom the bullshit is coming from.

*facepalm* I can back up 320guy here. I know the guy as well. It is a stock m42 and it is running under 20 pounds and it is 300whp. Dont argue. Because it's true lol.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Mark247

[320guy 0]

just remember you're trying to make power, not boost. lower the c/r was one of the worst things i did with mine. killed off boost performance too much (running 12psi)

As for Link vs MS: That MS price includes an LC-1 (you still need one to tune a link) and its all assembled. You dont need the stim if its all assembled. Also, why buy assembled? if you cant solder it up I doubt you have the capabilities to install and tune. just pay the $3.5k and go link. That said, the $NZ vs US has made MS a whole lot less affordable now, a 2nd hand link could easily be the best bang for buck out there.

BTW; Conrod's math is not bullshit. 300whp @ 16psi is very impressive from a stock M42. end of story.

Personally I would have no problems soldering up and installing a MS myself, so obviously I would buy the unbuilt kit if this was for myself. Though I dont know how good he is at soldering so used the pre built kit. I would get a stim anyway, just incase you have any problems you can diagnose them.

Though by the time you get it installed and bought it etc, your getting close to 2k.

Paying the extra for the link is worth it I feel for the extra support in NZ, if you have any problems with a MS you are pretty much on your own (apart from internet forums, but no real world help).

He may be runnign over 16psi, possibly 18psi (im not good as remembering numbers like this) but I know for sure it was not over 20psi.

Edited November 27, 2008 by 320guy

[Jeddy 0]

alright so a hone and new pistons, metal gasket, megasquirt and some new injectors and turbo set up?!

does anyone know about the Karl Schmidt pistons on trademe or know of using mitsi evo pistons?

does $450 sound like a reasonable price to pay for the bare motor?

$450 for an m42?

This is going into an e30 right? If so the m42 may need a different sump as im pretty sure the e36 m42 and e30 m42 are different.

[Mike 1]

Personally I would have no problems soldering up and installing a MS myself, so obviously I would buy the unbuilt kit if this was for myself. Though I dont know how good he is at soldering so used the pre built kit. I would get a stim anyway, just incase you have any problems you can diagnose them.

Though by the time you get it installed and bought it etc, your getting close to 2k.

Paying the extra for the link is worth it I feel for the extra support in NZ, if you have any problems with a MS you are pretty much on your own (apart from internet forums, but no real world help).

Those comments weren't directed at anyone in particular, just saying if you aren't capable of soldering up an MS I think you maybe struggling with installing any ECU.

My MS gear was all landed for around $800 back in 2006. Unassembled V3.0, LC1, stim, and a few sensors and sockets. Link was still around $1300 but needed LC-1 and a few other bits still.

IMO, if you want MS build it yourself and save a few bucks. DIYautotune have awesome customer support.

Anyone considering an assembled MS just buy a Link for all the reasons already mentioned. cheap(ish), and plenty of real world local support.

I'll take your word on the M42, though still very impressed.

[topcat 11]

another site thats most useful is the

www.not2fast.com

engine specs,turbo sizing,a/f intercooler options/water injection etc

either way,making more HP = $$

[ED1RTY 2]

Gus' Motor, this was a while ago when Andrew owned it but yea.

Cool car. CA18DET eat your heart out..

Edited November 28, 2008 by ED1RTY

[hybrid 1044]

Im running 40psi in my lawn mower ... it rocks.

[318isteve 0]

wow i didnt realise the cost of a stand alone ecu system..

[318isteve 0]

having a quick look on m42 club and theres afew ppl using the stock computer with a rrpf or a boost reference rising rate fuel regulator 12:1..

anyone know or can help because theres no way i can afford to spend 3000 on a ecu

[OLLIE 26]

Gus' Motor, this was a while ago when Andrew owned it but yea.

Cool car. CA18DET eat your heart out..

Motec FTW $$$

[CamB 48]

anyone know or can help because theres no way i can afford to spend 3000 on a ecu

It's not $3k - you can get a second hand one for about $600. Tuning can be the expensive bit. I'm already sensing budget is an issue to any type of turbocharging.

[320guy 0]

having a quick look on m42 club and theres afew ppl using the stock computer with a rrpf or a boost reference rising rate fuel regulator 12:1..

anyone know or can help because theres no way i can afford to spend 3000 on a ecu

Yes you could use a RRFPR, but then you still have no real way to change the timing apart from getting it chipped.

And a RRFPR setup is generally far from reliable and alot of mucking around trying to get it to work right.

[318isteve 0]

Oh click RRFPR = Rising rate fuel pressure regulator

oh ok again what would the cost be for a reasonable chip?

thanks again everyone

[Guest SamSpargo]

Guuuuuus, where's my iST?!?!?!