removing traction controll... yay or nay

[edhardley 0]

Thanks bravo, sounds like a good idea. I agree its a very grey area, I will ring my insurance company and ask about these details, and will probaly go ahead and delete that asc TB and let you know what diff it makes.

[edhardley 0]

You want to be careful if you talk to a representative about something that might void the cover.

If you talk to someone do not give them any info which can link you to your car cover. If you ask them about that mod, and it would void the cover, they can put a little flag up against your info in the computer and if you happen to have a crash, they will check it out.

A mate I know in insurance let me know about that.

If you ask about a mod that would void the cover, they assume you're gonna do the mod. So they will check for it when and if they need to.

Hope that info helps.

cheers nick, yup know about what these buggers are capable of, hence as I explained to Glenn I'm asking if anyone here knows about rather than talking to the insurance company, but yea will ring up as anonyimous. cheers

[*Glenn* 854]

I'm actually starting to consider why I even bother trying to help some of you guys... might just sit on the side and watch instead

[edhardley 0]

I'm actually starting to consider why I even bother trying to help some of you guys... might just sit on the side and watch instead

I value your help, but everyone has there opinions and ideas of what will work and what won't. You tell me I'm 'wrong'(i personaly don't think many people like to be told this), you tell me to go ask my insurance company and not bother here, you then make some irrelevant and rudely inteded comment that maybey I would be moving down to c-church. And to be honest (even tho I didn't ask if it'd work or not)I'm not wrong, I've unplugged asc, havn't yet changed TB(will do tommorow but for this argument doesn't matter or change anything-just a piece of tube with larger diametre) have been for a drive,checked OBC, no faults (ASC light warning is obviously on- as it would be if you turned it off in cockpit), checked abs breaks- yes they work, and no probs I can mention, as I was assured by somone else who did this on their same 97 T/C e36, as common sense would tell you, unplugging the connection for all intensive purposes is the same as switiching T/C of inside, current no longer runs (can't) through the copper wire into the sensor in the TB.

[*Glenn* 854]

OBC wont tell you anything... do what you want to do.. scan it and you will see what I'm talking about..

Anyway ... I'm loosing interest... over and out

BTW your original inquiry was about your insurance... ring them... and be honest.. and see what they say

Enjoy

[edhardley 0]

Well my car accelerates, brakes, turns and for all purposes runs as before, and soon will be improved for all of 10 mins work (at any time I may bolt the old TC back on) and allow better use of this lsd, I'm realy not fussed about plugging it in, I don't realy tend to sit in my garage with my car hooked up to some comp and watch to see if its giving me some uneccassry warnings because it's not happy i've unplugged one of its factory equipment, I'm sure it'll deal with it. Yes, will check with insurance company, thanks for the advice. out.

[westy 614]

This is a big ol sh*t fight for an almost pointless mod.

Bravo's completely right but if you spin on a corner and you've removed the ASC you'll be sh*t outta luck with your insurance.

As already pointed out LSD and ASC live in perfect harmony.

[*Glenn* 854]

This is a big ol sh*t fight for an almost pointless mod.

Bravo's completely right but if you spin on a corner and you've removed the ASC you'll be sh*t outta luck with your insurance.

As already pointed out LSD and ASC live in perfect harmony.

+1...no further comment

[Nic325i 0]

I'm not so sure. If an insurer fails to pay out because traction control was permanently disabled, then they could easily refuse to pay out if it was temporarily disabled using the factory switch. Which is bollocks. To me, its a grey area and you won't get a definative answer here. My opinion is that 1) It would be very difficult to PROVE that the disablement CAUSED any accident (rather than just contributed), and 2) the fact you can disable anyway would make it very hard for any insurance company to win a case that they are not liable.

Not sure about BMWs/this specific BMW, but in a lot of cars the "disable traction control" button is actually a "relax traction control button" - i.e. the car is allowed to get to a greater level of instability before the computer starts trying to sort things out. I'm pretty sure Mercedes all work in this way, and no doubt many other brands too.

On the more general point, I am with those saying it would be very difficult for the insurance company to prove a high likelihood that traction control could have prevented a particular accident.

[edhardley 0]

This is a big ol sh*t fight for an almost pointless mod.

Bravo's completely right but if you spin on a corner and you've removed the ASC you'll be sh*t outta luck with your insurance.

As already pointed out LSD and ASC live in perfect harmony.

Pointless argument, you got it. But please stop with your subjective opinions. If I loose traction, even the slightest around a corner, my lsd will send/ divert power from the wheel loosing traction to the wheel firmly planted on the ground(path of least resistance), allowing continuallly acceleration and grip where previously I would have needed to slow down or skid out, whilst T/C wants to reduce throtle(or abs depending on model) and slow down the car... For crying out loud- no they do not work in harmony!!!-not at all (unless your car comes stock with both and they are in-coorporated to let both do their job). And then you can say, well turn it off, as somone mentioned above turning it off doesn't completely deactivate it(as i was saying before) it just delays the trigger point. And as for gains well, I went to the trouble of doing a manifold swap, so I dont want a bottle neck secondary throtle body right before the plenum, and for all of a 5min reversable task I have unleashed a little throttle response and power (you would be surprised it's not actually that minor- just like the manifold swap my new TB allows about andother half as much airflow again-less restrictve). I have checked with insurance company, the reply I got wasn't as exact as I would have expected but the lady at Tower said that in terms of loss of traction, the only check to be done if the car has warrent, interms of traction, was on tyres, even if you have a warrent and they deem them not to standard you got no hope, she did say they didn't have listed whether some cars had T/C or not, she did say you should tell your insirance comany any modifications you make, but I got the feeling although technicaly possible for investigation, no insruance company goes and checks into the electrical history of your car- more interested in tyres and quick tests that would definatly have a major role to play in a crash. Also on a last note: T/C is for grandma's, it takes the fun out of driving. End of story.

[westy 614]

Thanks for the essay. Next time I need to know something I'll be sure to ask you first.

[edhardley 0]

Thanks for the essay. Next time I need to know something I'll be sure to ask you first.

Thats alright, I like to do things, then talk about my experience and what I actualy know is the outcome, rather than give unobjective thoughts about things I havn't done and don't understand.

[*Glenn* 854]

.....

[Nobimmer 694]

mean thread. don't have a wah if you crash.

[edhardley 0]

mean thread. don't have a wah if you crash.

Hmmmm maybey in theory, but don't see it happening, brothers written off a bimmer before, and have seen what they look at and questions they ask, they are more interested in warrent/ tires/ drunk. Anway, used the throtle body hose of a Z3 roadster(as it fits perfectly), tied the single plug down behind the fuse box, and disconected bulb for asc warning, aka its looks like absolutely nothing has been tampered with- genuine bmw part(looks like the old one) and no warning light. Besides if they ever asked about it you just say, must have been done before i brought the car(which with a couple of previous owners is very likely and can't be proven, maybe asc was faulty and they removed it with standard TB). Once I have the lsd in I will let insurance company know of the switch, its no biggy and my broker knows the ins and outs, If it causes problems may just plug the old one back in and deal with the minor inconvience.

[elmarco 56]

Hmmmm maybey in theory, but don't see it happening, brothers written off a bimmer before, and have seen what they look at and questions they ask, they are more interested in warrent/ tires/ drunk. Anway, used the throtle body hose of a Z3 roadster(as it fits perfectly), tied the single plug down behind the fuse box, and disconected bulb for asc warning, aka its looks like absolutely nothing has been tampered with- genuine bmw part(looks like the old one) and no warning light. Besides if they ever asked about it you just say, must have been done before i brought the car(which with a couple of previous owners is very likely and can't be proven, maybe asc was faulty and they removed it with standard TB). Once I have the lsd in I will let insurance company know of the switch, its no biggy and my broker knows the ins and outs, If it causes problems may just plug the old one back in and deal with the minor inconvience.

I think you are kind of missing the point a little. You are talking about disabling a safety system and hiding it. Maybe you won't crash, maybe you will. But regardless of the end result, I am willing to bet that an insurance company will do what ever they can to decline a claim if you have been anything but up front with them about it, or the modification makes the car illegal in any way shape or form.

By discussing it on an open internet forum (don't for a minute think that they won't use what you have written above against you if they find it) you have opened a whole can of worms should you have an accident in the future. It's like internet porn - once your picture is on the net, you can never get rid of the evidence.... Or so I've heard.....

Also, what happens when someone that doesn't know about your modification drives the car and has an accident because of it? Will the next owner and the one after that know all of the details of your tampering? Or will they find out the hard way?

Car companies don't put it in because it makes their assembly process easier or cheaper - it's because it is a safety system that has been proven to work.

[edhardley 0]

I think you are kind of missing the point a little. You are talking about disabling a safety system and hiding it. Maybe you won't crash, maybe you will. But regardless of the end result, I am willing to bet that an insurance company will do what ever they can to decline a claim if you have been anything but up front with them about it, or the modification makes the car illegal in any way shape or form.

By discussing it on an open internet forum (don't for a minute think that they won't use what you have written above against you if they find it) you have opened a whole can of worms should you have an accident in the future. It's like internet porn - once your picture is on the net, you can never get rid of the evidence.... Or so I've heard.....

Also, what happens when someone that doesn't know about your modification drives the car and has an accident because of it? Will the next owner and the one after that know all of the details of your tampering? Or will they find out the hard way?

Car companies don't put it in because it makes their assembly process easier or cheaper - it's because it is a safety system that has been proven to work.

No I think it is you who has missed the point. I have stated that I will let my insurance company know I have replaced T/C with lsd and see if its a prob(please read), if so will remove it. As for resale, I don't think I will, will just run it into the ground, and if i did decide to sell it, id chuck the old traction contoll back in within 2mins(maybe less) , or otherwise not list the car with T/C or say 'no T/C'?? seriously think about it. Please don't compare internet porn(what made you think of this ), with a question on some forum about whether having T/C in effect turned off would affect insurance. No, car companies don't put it in because it makes their job easier, they put it in to keep up with industry standards, and hold buisness with a large sector of people who drive a car from a to b and want safety over speed. If I just wanted to get from a to b, I wouldn't be on this forum or have the car i do, with a saftey rating of 2/6 and mods. Thanks for all the advice, I don't mean to be rude, but sick of the endless line of people posting negative nay-saying comments that arn't fact or related to the question to start, and seem to be posted purely for the fact of wanting to hold opposing views, Mayby I should have posted this under the performance section, where people are more interested in performance gains, than arguing over minor/ reversable asc changes, seriously asc is just a pain in the neck, it's not saving anyone, I personally feel less in controll not having full controll of throtle, and more than half the time it is safer to accelerate out of a slide, than have power cut and keep sliding. New versions are a different thing. But BMW's first shot at a T/C was basic at best.

Anway please don't bother with further posts about the insurance, As one decent comment did suggest, I will just be straight up with the insurance company and see what they say (would definately rather have the piece of mind), don't think it will be a biggy. fineto, and lets chill

[Andre3000 55]

"excesisve acceleration for the conditions", and if I couldn't handle it I wouldn't do it.

LOL

Mean thread alright, poor Glenn haha

You are by far the chattiest member on this forum dward

Edited February 2, 2009 by Huddyboy

[*Glenn* 854]

+1...no further comment

I'll break my silence on this matter......YES I have done this for different reasons....your mods are going to give you small gains and possibly (will) give you other issues. You may think my comments are negative, however I'm just trying to give you the right advice, all beit my opinion, for the small gains you might get I would say leave ASC in the system, go the LSD and switch it off when you feel the need to. In my case it was for a different reason and the HP gains were huge. Next mod is going to be UUC flywheel & clutch, manual gearbox & LSD. At the moment I'm running a Jatco with manual select which only came out in a few of the coupes instead of ice mode. I'm not going to go M50 manifold because I want torque and the mods I've done already give me huge HP and P/weight gains compared to the original configuration the car was running.

When I modified my car...have a look here..

http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....t=0&start=0

I removed ASC because the M52B28 didnt have ASC and the M44 did. I also changed the ABS control unit and got the car certed. So, I would say I possibly know what I'm talking about. Your insurance issues however are another matter you probably need to sort out with your insurer. My insurer has a list of all mods, copy of the cert and pictures of the whole process.

And yes... I know its a girls car.... NOT

Secondly...when posting on the forum...be prepared for critiscism.... it goes with the territory and everyone has their own opinion and will always want to add their 2 cents worth

[edhardley 0]

I'll break my silence on this matter......YES I have done this for different reasons....your mods are going to give you small gains and possibly (will) give you other issues. You may think my comments are negative, however I'm just trying to give you the right advice, all beit my opinion, for the small gains you might get I would say leave ASC in the system, go the LSD and switch it off when you feel the need to. In my case it was for a different reason and the HP gains were huge. Next mod is going to be UUC flywheel & clutch, manual gearbox & LSD. At the moment I'm running a Jatco with manual select which only came out in a few of the coupes instead of ice mode. I'm not going to go M50 manifold because I want torque and the mods I've done already give me huge HP and P/weight gains compared to the original configuration the car was running.

When I modified my car...have a look here..

http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....t=0&start=0

I removed ASC because the M52B28 didnt have ASC and the M44 did. I also changed the ABS control unit and got the car certed. So, I would say I possibly know what I'm talking about. Your insurance issues however are another matter you probably need to sort out with your insurer. My insurer has a list of all mods, copy of the cert and pictures of the whole process.

And yes... I know its a girls car.... NOT

Secondly...when posting on the forum...be prepared for critiscism.... it goes with the territory and everyone has their own opinion and will always want to add their 2 cents worth

Cheers glenn, point taken. Yea I can see how there may be other problems (computer related), I'm having it plugged in on friday, and see if the computers throwing any faults, and should be able to have it reset to take the T/C into account, or tell the system it's fine. If not probaly will throw the other one back in. The difference isn't huge but I think noticeable(maybe placebo haha), because with the m50 manifold I need to get as much air through the runners as possible or their was little point in me doing it, if theres a bottle neck before it (along with a remap, and the CIA, and new TB this should be good). Sorry for the arguing, I know you know what your talking about.

[edhardley 0]

LOL

Mean thread alright, poor Glenn haha

You are by far the chattiest member on this forum dward

Haha keep your mouth shut huddy . haha yea.